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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: anhisr on December 14, 2007, 12:06:22 PM
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Just tried to record spdif in from a V3. When it is running the clock was moving too fast. I stopped it and listened to it and it was running too slow. 44.1 and 48 not a problem 96 big problem. Using the little external mics, no problem. Called them and they are trying to replicate the problem and are calling me back. Oh, and they started to say something about the V3 but, I got my old MT from my neighbor who I sold it too and no problem running at 96. Will post further messages.
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and so it begins...
Interested to see how much it has "improved" over the original MT.
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Just tried to record spdif in from a V3. When it is running the clock was moving too fast. I stopped it and listened to it and it was running too slow. 44.1 and 48 not a problem 96 big problem. Using the little external mics, no problem. Called them and they are trying to replicate the problem and are calling me back. Oh, and they started to say something about the V3 but, I got my old MT from my neighbor who I sold it too and no problem running at 96. Will post further messages.
:angry2:
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Kind of like the Florida - LSU game this year.
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Just tried to record spdif in from a V3. When it is running the clock was moving too fast. I stopped it and listened to it and it was running too slow. 44.1 and 48 not a problem 96 big problem. Using the little external mics, no problem. Called them and they are trying to replicate the problem and are calling me back. Oh, and they started to say something about the V3 but, I got my old MT from my neighbor who I sold it too and no problem running at 96. Will post further messages.
Is it only a single trial or that happens ALL THE TIME???
I guess it's time for a new firmware.
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Just tried to record spdif in from a V3. When it is running the clock was moving too fast. I stopped it and listened to it and it was running too slow. 44.1 and 48 not a problem 96 big problem. Using the little external mics, no problem. Called them and they are trying to replicate the problem and are calling me back. Oh, and they started to say something about the V3 but, I got my old MT from my neighbor who I sold it too and no problem running at 96. Will post further messages.
Is it only a single trial or that happens ALL THE TIME???
I guess it's time for a new firmware.
Hopefully this is only a problem with one unit... How bad would it be if they shipped units with a faulty SPDIF in :P
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He called back and said he had no problem with the one they have. So, off it goes to full compass for a return. he thought it is just my unit. I hope for all of you out there he is right.
I tried it with different cards and different sizes. all that were formatted with the unit and then tested with the unit, they have that feature now. The time on the bottom was wrong and counting wrong but, the time reaming through the menu was right. The audio was supper slow.
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Looking at the file. It says that it is recorded at 24/44 If I go into Wavelab, and tell it to change the audio properties to 96 it sounds fine. What is the deal with that?
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its just a header issue.
it was expecting a 44.1kHz signal and you were sending 96kHz. that's why the clock was moving so fast.
if the device counts 1 second for every 44.1k samples that are sent, but you're sending 96k sample per second, the counter will go a little more than twice as fast as normal.
there are lots of threads dealing with this topc, as the MT isn't the only recorder with issues like these. in fact, I think there's a sticky thread somewhere regarding this topic.
anyway, try this:
before you turn on the MTII, ahev the coax connected and the V3 sending a 24/96 signal. then, when you turn it on and set it to S/PDIF, it'll hoepfully lock onto the 96 kHz signal and set itself appropriately.
edit to add: this was an issue with the original MT. if the S/PDIF signal wasn't active when the MT was turned on, it would write a a file with the wrong header info
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tried the old start up and it didn't help.
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Mine's charging at the moment
I'll try 24/96 out of the soundcard and the FR-2 as soon as I am sure the batt's full.
Just arranged a live band test for t'mrw noche.
I may do a very loose FR-2 vs. MTII shoot-out recording some local talent.
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here's a couple of things: got my mt2 on tuesday charged the battery and friday it's dead!!!!
doing a 24/96 test right now, with a v-3, and the time is definately moving at double speed.
24/48 seems to be working fine.
thats it for now, i will know more tuesday.
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doing a living room test @ 24/48 spdif from v-3
i haven't listened, but it seemed like the seemless split happened at 2 gigs. i watched it and it happened fast, blink of an eye fast. i'll join the files and give another update.
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used the korg audiogate software to join the 2 files.
IT IS A SEEMLESS SPLIT!!!!!!!!
also the split comes at 1.86 gigs 1:55:44.
took 11 minutes 40 seconds to transfer 1.86 gig file. much slower than the mt 1.
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Okay. I've got the 24/44 when it should be 24/96 issue too. I fired up the MT II after the V3 in my test. The MT II was already set to take s/pdif.
I'm sure it's just an error in the header.
What else to try?
EDIT: Opened a ticket with M-Audio and pointed them to this thread.
--Michael
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do you know what your incident # is? As a reference mine is 101765
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do you know what your incident # is? As a reference mine is 101765
I opened an incident on the web: Incident ID - NA101919
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IT IS A SEEMLESS SPLIT!!!!!!!!
also the split comes at 1.86 gigs 1:55:44.
Ye Ol' 2GB AKA 2.000.000.000 bytes? (same as in mt1)
Good that the split works.
took 11 minutes 40 seconds to transfer 1.86 gig file. much slower than the mt 1.
Not soo good...
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has anyone tried 24/96 with a ua5 or other box?
i am sure it would do the same "header" error but just to confirm its not the v3 signal that it has trouble with in some way
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...blanking a 4GB card right now to try 24/96 from the FR-2 (MD5s taking forever on the ancient DAW)
will report back within this post
I was testing the playback from this same 4GB card last night into the HD-600 Sennheisers and was reasonably impressed. I did have to crank it to near top volume, but was certainly usable for casual playback.
The Senns are powerdogs to be sure.
Not sure about what would happen at a show with the Ety's and a 110db PA blasting me...
MKWTools wrote the md5 back to the CF ;D ....copying the card to the DAW and another MD5 to go...
[Update]
The MD5s don't match on the transfer...
It may be my PCI-USB card, which is a a combi Firewire/USB cheapo
Using MTII USB2.0
I calculated with winMD5Sum and MKWTools and have four different checksums! :P
Still can't dump the card, so I cannot test the 24/96 yet
I'm trying a transfer to the laptop now
[EDIT]
The MD5s we fine on the USB copy of the files using the laptop
OK, so it was the USB/PCI card, but that's hanging my audio card :P
Hapless today, no 24/96 files on the FR-2 to use and a bunch of household stuff to do.
Going full-throttle to the live test tonight, maybe to bring back two recordings to compare and the chance to do a 24/96 SPDIF transfer recording 24/96 out of the FR-2 (I hope)
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Anyone heard from M-Audio about this yet?
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I've received an update from M-Audio on my ticket:
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"[Alex Solano -- 12/18/2007 07:09:00]
Hi Michael,
We just tested one of our MTII using a Firewire Audio interface as our S/PDIF source to record 24/96 and we could not duplicate the problem. Do you have a different S/PDIF source you can test.
Also make sure to format the media before recording. "
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't have another S/PDIF source to test, so I'll have to wait until someone else on the board can test with something other than a V3.
EDIT: I have a Presonus Firestudio. I forgot it has S/PDIF out. Will test ASAP.
--Michael
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They asked me the same thing. The thing I told them is, my MT 1 has no problems.
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Okay, I can't reproduce the problem with my Presonus Firestudio.
1. I used Reaper to record a short 24/96 *.wav file with the Firestudio.
2. I played this file back in CDWav. The file properties showed it was 24/96.
3. I played the file again and sent the audio to the S/PDIF out of the Firestudio.
4. I captured the audio on the MT II's S/PDIF in and wrote the file.
5. I moved the *.wav file recorded on the MT II back to the PC, and played it in CDWav.
6. The file played fine and had "properties" showing that it was, in fact, 24/96.
7. I tried the same test using the S/PDIF out of the V3:
24/44.1 = good
24/48 = good
24/96 = broken
Unless I've made some huge error...it seems that only 24/96 S/PDIF sent from the V3 to the MT II has an issue. Does anyone have any other gear they can test with? I'll even bring my MT II over to you if you live in the KC area.
--Michael
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Okay, I can't reproduce the problem with my Presonus Firestudio.
1. I used Reaper to record a short 24/96 *.wav file with the Firestudio.
2. I played this file back in CDWav. The file properties showed it was 24/96.
3. I played the file again and sent the audio to the S/PDIF out of the Firestudio.
4. I captured the audio on the MT II's S/PDIF in and wrote the file.
5. I moved the *.wav file recorded on the MT II back to the PC, and played it in CDWav.
6. The file played fine and had "properties" showing that it was, in fact, 24/96.
7. I tried the same test using the S/PDIF out of the V3:
24/44.1 = good
24/48 = good
24/96 = broken
Unless I've made some huge error...it seems that only 24/96 S/PDIF sent from the V3 to the MT II has an issue. Does anyone have any other gear they can test with? I'll even bring my MT II over to you if you live in the KC area.
--Michael
I generally record 24/44 so its not the biggest problem for me, but it still sucks. I am considering canceling my order. I wonder what changed from the MT I. I can't see M-Audio fixing this problem if its only a problem with a V3.
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I sent an email this morning to Grace to see if they could help us on this problem as I don't see M Audio being of much help at this point. Oh, and I have not heard back from M Audio yet.
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Rick, might be a bad idea while everything is up in the air at this point. I myself am not giving up on finding out why this is a problem.
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i checked 24/96 with the v-3 did not work right. i can't imagine that there is something inherently wrong with the v-3.
it is one of the most well designed pre amp/ a/d converters out there.
okay, back from maiden voyage with the mt 2.
last night we had a fundraiser to try and prevent a mine from opening in our community.
MK-41 O.R.T.F. > Schoeps KCY Active > Schoeps VMS 5u >
Kind Kables Canare Quad Star > Korg Mr-1000 @ 1 bit 2.8MHz.
ran the mt 2 analog out from the korg @24/48. the mt 2 froze up both sets and did not save the files.
i have been a pretty loyal mt 1 user and never talked crap about them.
that has just changed, my 1st impression after using the mt 2 is that is is a piece of shit.
ymmv good luck to the rest of the mt 2 owners.
thanks
ed
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Well, It looks like I may be holding off on buying an MTII for a while. Maybe I will just pick up the MTI in the yardsale. ......must resist urge to slut..........
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Hmmmmmm, I have MTII on order for my V3 as well... will be interested to see if this can get resolved ASAP. So the only work around at this point is to just go 24/44.1 or 24/48 w/ the V3 eh?
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So my issue would be with it freezing up. I guess that would be if you were running it into the TRS inputs? That is weird. I guess I could deal with it not being able to record at 24/96. 24/48 is fine with me. It will be a vast improvement over the 16/44.1. I will have to pull the trigger at some point in the Spring.
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Talked to Jamie at Grace. He had me run through some things that didn't work. He said they will try and get with a tech at M-Audio and see what they can find out. He is also going to get a MTII and see what he can find out. ;D
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i have been a pretty loyal mt 1 user and never talked crap about them.
that has just changed, my 1st impression after using the mt 2 is that is is a piece of shit.
Were you an early adopter of the MT1? Plenty of early issues with the MT1, most of which were resolved with firmware releases. The same may happen with the MT2.
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i have been a pretty loyal mt 1 user and never talked crap about them.
that has just changed, my 1st impression after using the mt 2 is that is is a piece of shit.
Were you an early adopter of the MT1? Plenty of early issues with the MT1, most of which were resolved with firmware releases. The same may happen with the MT2.
that's just it though. this is MT version *2*. the first came out with all kinds of issues and m-audio fixed as many as they could. However there were still issues left unfixed so they went for a whole new line. it still doesn't work up to spec. they should have worked all that shit out before they released this version.
pretty poor on m-audio's part
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ran the mt 2 analog out from the korg @24/48. the mt 2 froze up both sets and did not save the files.
This really concerns me. Though I don't plan to use the analog in, I hope this doesn't turn in to something that will just randomly happen to the MT II. I've got about 2 hours of record time on mine with no freezing. I'm recording shows two nights this week, and now your post has be debating on whether or not I should run the trusty D8 in front...just in case.
--Michael
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Optical mod the V3 and get the Sony D50 instead? OK, kinda pricey solution, but thought I'd
throw that idea out there.
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Optical mod the V3 and get the Sony D50 instead? OK, kinda pricey solution, but thought I'd
throw that idea out there.
The D50 is having same kind of problem with Core Sound Mic2496. I don't know if anyone has tried a V3 yet though.
I just got in my PCM D50, and immediately tried the digital-in to see what data points I could add to this confused picture. I fed it with a 24/96 signal from a Core Sound Mic2496 optical out. The D50 read 48/24 but the second hand was racing, and sure enough on playback I heard my test speech played back at 1/2 speed (and down an octave, of course). I have not yet tried editing the wave header, but my guess is that I will have an okay 24/96 recording. This is a kludgy work-around for something that should function correctly out of the box.
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i have been a pretty loyal mt 1 user and never talked crap about them.
that has just changed, my 1st impression after using the mt 2 is that is is a piece of shit.
Were you an early adopter of the MT1? Plenty of early issues with the MT1, most of which were resolved with firmware releases. The same may happen with the MT2.
yah, i had an mt 1 within a month of release and still use it today. i know there were problems that m-audio took care of with firmware updates.
i might have over reacted this morning, but at least my mt1 worked on it's 1st try.
i was going in on the trs inputs and the mt 2 froze up at an hour and 15 each time
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that's just it though. this is MT version *2*. the first came out with all kinds of issues and m-audio fixed as many as they could. However there were still issues left unfixed so they went for a whole new line. it still doesn't work up to spec. they should have worked all that shit out before they released this version.
pretty poor on m-audio's part
Agreed, pretty poor. But from what I've read, MT2 isn't really the next generation of MT1, it's a whole new product (though granted the same case / form factor). And so, just trying to suggest in my previous post that none of this should be surprising, given the track record with MT1.
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But from what I've read, MT2 isn't really the next generation of MT1,
[rhetorical question]
??? then why did they call it the microtracker version 2?
[/rhetorical question]
pretty silly to use the same name, advertise it as an upgrade, and it not be an upgrade.
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Hi All,
We have a call in to M-Audio and are rounding up a unit that we can test here at the shop.
Jamie and I will keep you informed of anything we find out about this.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Grace
Grace Design/Lunatec LLC
www.gracedesign.com
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Awww shit, now we've done it ;D
thanks Michael
+T
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Thanks Michael! Can't wait to hear something.
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thanks mike
you rock!!!!
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Many thanks Mr. Grace!
--Michael
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that's just it though. this is MT version *2*. the first came out with all kinds of issues and m-audio fixed as many as they could. However there were still issues left unfixed so they went for a whole new line. it still doesn't work up to spec. they should have worked all that shit out before they released this version.
pretty poor on m-audio's part
Agreed, pretty poor. But from what I've read, MT2 isn't really the next generation of MT1, it's a whole new product (though granted the same case / form factor). And so, just trying to suggest in my previous post that none of this should be surprising, given the track record with MT1.
I'm curious about the analog stages in the MTII. Are they any better, both in sound quality and noise/interference levels, than the original MT. It would be cool to have an ultraportable rig to run my various Beyerdynamic mics. Hopefully some brave soul will crack the cover on this thing and show us the guts!
Richard
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we wouldn't have to worry about this problem with a "v4" grace v3/recorder all in one ;)
seriously though i have never dealt with grace designs but i have heard nothing but good things about them and their products are with out a doubt top notch
this just shows it even more - many companies wouldn't really care i don't think, grace designs right on top of it to try and find a fix
+T
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Mike and Jamie work at helping people. I wish they would venture into making something like the MT. I know I would be first in line.
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Latest update from M-Audio. There will be a fix. This is good news, and in my opinion, a timely root cause analysis by both vendors. These things happen...
Edit: To emphasize that I'm a satisfied customer.
--Michael
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Our team has contacted Grace Designs and it appears that the Lunatec does not send the 'status bit' information required by the MTII in order to write the file at a higher sample rate. This simply means that Grace Designs chosen for whatever reason, not to send the status bit and as a result it is writing the file as 44.1kHz.
M-Audio will be adding this 'non-status-bit' in a firmware update in the near future.
For now we simply recommend to use the workaround of up-sampling the audio file with an audio editor for the file to playback at the right playback speed.
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Latest update from M-Audio. There will be a fix. This is good news, and in my opinion, a timely root cause analysis by both vendors. These things happen...
--Michael
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Our team has contacted Grace Designs and it appears that the Lunatec does not send the 'status bit' information required by the MTII in order to write the file at a higher sample rate. This simply means that Grace Designs chosen for whatever reason, not to send the status bit and as a result it is writing the file as 44.1kHz.
M-Audio will be adding this 'non-status-bit' in a firmware update in the near future.
For now we simply recommend to use the workaround of up-sampling the audio file with an audio editor for the file to playback at the right playback speed.
That's good news, hopefully that firmware comes out relatively soon
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Were did you see the update from M-Audio? Email to you or a post somewhere in the internets? I forwarded a copy of the message to Jamie at Grace and this was his response
Most gear (pretty much every device we've ever used) does not rely on channel status information to configure themselves for high sample rate syncing with external devices. In fact the AES specification (AES3-1992 (r1997)) states "The indication of sampling frequency, or the use of one of the sampling frequencies that can be indicated in this byte, is not a requirement for operation of the interface." Thus a piece of gear should not rely on the channel status to configure its hardware.
Assuming this is the case and we confirm it with M-Audio, we can revise the firmware in the V3 to be compatible with the requirements MTII. We will need to get an MTII in house before we can release anything (working on it!), but Mike and I will work to make it happen as quickly as possible if necessary. FYI: Updating the firmware on your V3 in the field is a piece of cake. (1) Pop the chip out..and..(2) Put the new chip in...
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That was the text from the update M-Audio placed in the ticket I opened. The engineer that updated the ticket was Alex Solano.
--Michael
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The great thing is, there will be a fix at some point in the not too distant future.
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Honestly though if it wasn't for Michael at Grace Designs this would have taken a lot longer....I would have bet money on that. Maudio seems to move at their own pace. Maudio does not impress me where as Grace Designs does....
T+ to Mike....
Anyone try a MT2 with a minime yet...Please don't tell me Apogee needs to create a work around as well....
peace OOK
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I don't think there is any company that we purchase things from that handles customer service better than Grace.
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of course its great grace is in on it, but shouldn't the mt be "fixed" and not the v3?
the v3 works with other devices at 96, so it seems to me that its the mt without a doubt thats got the issue
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of course its great grace is in on it, but shouldn't the mt be "fixed" and not the v3?
the v3 works with other devices at 96, so it seems to me that its the mt without a doubt thats got the issue
In the trouble ticket I opened with M-Audio regarding this issue, they stated:
"M-Audio will be adding this 'non-status-bit' in a firmware update in the near future."
--Michael
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Since I went through the initial growing pains of the MT1, no surprise that there are issues with the MT2. I am sure there will be some firmware updates to fix these issues, not that it makes it any better ...
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of course its great grace is in on it, but shouldn't the mt be "fixed" and not the v3?
the v3 works with other devices at 96, so it seems to me that its the mt without a doubt thats got the issue
In the trouble ticket I opened with M-Audio regarding this issue, they stated:
"M-Audio will be adding this 'non-status-bit' in a firmware update in the near future."
--Michael
i was talking about this though
Were did you see the update from M-Audio? Email to you or a post somewhere in the internets? I forwarded a copy of the message to Jamie at Grace and this was his response
Most gear (pretty much every device we've ever used) does not rely on channel status information to configure themselves for high sample rate syncing with external devices. In fact the AES specification (AES3-1992 (r1997)) states "The indication of sampling frequency, or the use of one of the sampling frequencies that can be indicated in this byte, is not a requirement for operation of the interface." Thus a piece of gear should not rely on the channel status to configure its hardware.
Assuming this is the case and we confirm it with M-Audio, we can revise the firmware in the V3 to be compatible with the requirements MTII. We will need to get an MTII in house before we can release anything (working on it!), but Mike and I will work to make it happen as quickly as possible if necessary. FYI: Updating the firmware on your V3 in the field is a piece of cake. (1) Pop the chip out..and..(2) Put the new chip in...
seems to me that if he is talking about updating your v3 in the field then it would be a grace fix
???
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of course its great grace is in on it, but shouldn't the mt be "fixed" and not the v3?
the v3 works with other devices at 96, so it seems to me that its the mt without a doubt thats got the issue
In the trouble ticket I opened with M-Audio regarding this issue, they stated:
"M-Audio will be adding this 'non-status-bit' in a firmware update in the near future."
--Michael
i was talking about this though
Were did you see the update from M-Audio? Email to you or a post somewhere in the internets? I forwarded a copy of the message to Jamie at Grace and this was his response
Most gear (pretty much every device we've ever used) does not rely on channel status information to configure themselves for high sample rate syncing with external devices. In fact the AES specification (AES3-1992 (r1997)) states "The indication of sampling frequency, or the use of one of the sampling frequencies that can be indicated in this byte, is not a requirement for operation of the interface." Thus a piece of gear should not rely on the channel status to configure its hardware.
Assuming this is the case and we confirm it with M-Audio, we can revise the firmware in the V3 to be compatible with the requirements MTII. We will need to get an MTII in house before we can release anything (working on it!), but Mike and I will work to make it happen as quickly as possible if necessary. FYI: Updating the firmware on your V3 in the field is a piece of cake. (1) Pop the chip out..and..(2) Put the new chip in...
seems to me that if he is talking about updating your v3 in the field then it would be a grace fix
???
I see what you are saying. I guess we'll have to wait and see. It might be nice for both vendors to update their firmware.
1. Grace, so that they are are compatible with devices that don't follow the spec as reported above (I haven't read the spec). If it makes sense to do so, that is....
2. M-Audio, so that they follow the spec.
I've worked in the IT realm for a while, and in the past I've seen very similar issues arise when we try to use different vendor products to create IPSEC VPN's. A guilty party doesn't follow the spec and one of the vendors ends up issuing a patch to fix. It's not always the vendor that is broken who issues the patch, either.
--Michael
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The V3 - MTII 24/96 problem will be a thing of the past very,very soon. I have this from the highest of authority.
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Honestly though if it wasn't for Michael at Grace Designs this would have taken a lot longer....I would have bet money on that. Maudio seems to move at their own pace. Maudio does not impress me where as Grace Designs does....
T+ to Mike....
Anyone try a MT2 with a minime yet...Please don't tell me Apogee needs to create a work around as well....
peace OOK
I contacted Apogee tech support --
Their reply:
Hello,
Yes, this data is present in the digital audio outputs of the Mini-Me.
Best regards,
Brett Patrick
Tech Support Specialist
Apogee Electronics
My question --
QUESTION:It seems that newer digital audio recorders like the M Audio MicroTrack II 24/96 Handheld 2 Track Portable Recorder -- and the Sony PCM D50 Recorder -- both require sample rate and bit depth sub-code data in the digital audio stream to configure their recording parameters.
Do Rec C Minime's provide this sample rate and bit depth sub-code data in their digital audio streams?
Grace Designs is doing an upgrade for their V3 units.
Does the Minime need such an upgrade -- and if so -- will one be available from Apogee?
SUPPORT ID:8944
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Honestly though if it wasn't for Michael at Grace Designs this would have taken a lot longer....I would have bet money on that. Maudio seems to move at their own pace. Maudio does not impress me where as Grace Designs does....
T+ to Mike....
Anyone try a MT2 with a minime yet...Please don't tell me Apogee needs to create a work around as well....
peace OOK
I contacted Apogee tech support --
Their reply:
Hello,
Yes, this data is present in the digital audio outputs of the Mini-Me.
Best regards,
Brett Patrick
Tech Support Specialist
Apogee Electronics
My question --
QUESTION:It seems that newer digital audio recorders like the M Audio MicroTrack II 24/96 Handheld 2 Track Portable Recorder -- and the Sony PCM D50 Recorder -- both require sample rate and bit depth sub-code data in the digital audio stream to configure their recording parameters.
Do Rec C Minime's provide this sample rate and bit depth sub-code data in their digital audio streams?
Grace Designs is doing an upgrade for their V3 units.
Does the Minime need such an upgrade -- and if so -- will one be available from Apogee?
SUPPORT ID:8944
SAAAWWEEEETTTT!
I might have to get one now....I still might take a wait and see attitude but T+ for following up on this
Peace OOK
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M-Audio's fix is in.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96288.0.html
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I just got a MicroTrack II and am wondering if anyone else with this model has the following problem. The right level control and volume control seem to work intermittently. When booting up the device, the right level and headphone controls wither work normally or do not function at all, including not activating the backlight. The only way to correct this is to reboot, sometimes having to do so several times before these controls function again. All the other controls, including the left level control, always work fine. No combination of settings that I've encountered seems to have any effect on this problem.
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so i have used the mt2 twice in the field and have not had good luck.
1st time froze up twice analog in from korg mr-1000, i already posted about that.
2nd time, new years eve, spdif 24/48 from v-3, froze up again and didn't save the file.
good thing it is only a back up for the mr-1000. which works flawlessly.
i hope everyone else is having better luck.
ed
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so i have used the mt2 twice in the field and have not had good luck.
1st time froze up twice analog in from korg mr-1000, i already posted about that.
2nd time, new years eve, spdif 24/48 from v-3, froze up again and didn't save the file.
good thing it is only a back up for the mr-1000. which works flawlessly.
i hope everyone else is having better luck.
ed
I haven't had it freeze up yet at all, but I've only run it from behind my D8. I've chickened out at last minute every time and haven't run it solo. Tomorrow, I'm going to turn it on and record at 24/48 until my 4GB card fills up. I'll do that several times this weekend, and post the results here.
--Michael
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so i have used the mt2 twice in the field and have not had good luck.
1st time froze up twice analog in from korg mr-1000, i already posted about that.
2nd time, new years eve, spdif 24/48 from v-3, froze up again and didn't save the file.
good thing it is only a back up for the mr-1000. which works flawlessly.
i hope everyone else is having better luck.
ed
Have you tried different cf cards with the same result? Not that thats the problem as it's probably the same one you used in your MTI, but may be something to consider trying if you have another to test. Otherwise it may be time for a trade in and hope for better luck with a different unit, since it seems to be developing a pattern of not working. They were always pretty good about swapping the MTI out for a new one.
This is certainly a concern though, I've got one on the way now and suppose it will be delegated to backup duty as well until I feel comfortable with it as a primary bucket.
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so i have used the mt2 twice in the field and have not had good luck.
1st time froze up twice analog in from korg mr-1000, i already posted about that.
2nd time, new years eve, spdif 24/48 from v-3, froze up again and didn't save the file.
good thing it is only a back up for the mr-1000. which works flawlessly.
i hope everyone else is having better luck.
ed
My MTII is freezing up also. Analog input. Lexar 2GB PatinumII 80x CF card. The file saving icon disappears and all functions stop working. Only holding the power button down for a few seconds turns if off, without the usual shutdown notification. Recording is not saved javascript:void(0);
Sad
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so i have used the mt2 twice in the field and have not had good luck.
1st time froze up twice analog in from korg mr-1000, i already posted about that.
2nd time, new years eve, spdif 24/48 from v-3, froze up again and didn't save the file.
good thing it is only a back up for the mr-1000. which works flawlessly.
i hope everyone else is having better luck.
ed
I haven't had it freeze up yet at all, but I've only run it from behind my D8. I've chickened out at last minute every time and haven't run it solo. Tomorrow, I'm going to turn it on and record at 24/48 until my 4GB card fills up. I'll do that several times this weekend, and post the results here.
--Michael
I left the following to record a radio playing in a room yesterday:
C42MP > V3 > MT II
I used the S/PDIF in on the MT II and recorded at 24/48 on a SanDisk Ultra II 4GB card until the media was full. I ended up with 3 files, that Ubuntu reports as having the following sizes:
1.9 GB (1999953028 bytes) or 01h 55m 44s in Audacity
1.9 GB (1999854724 bytes) or 01h 55m 43s in Audacity
83.8 MB (87841924 bytes) or 00h 05m 04s in Audacity
I had no problems with the device locking up on me, and I ran the test twice.
I'm running the 1.0.1 firmware.
--Michael
Edit: to fix file times...
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Did you do that with an external battery attached?
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Did you do that with an external battery attached?
Yes, I did use an external battery on the MT II. I wanted to see how long my one-off re-purposed DVD battery would last (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96307.0.html)...I'm updating that post with the battery details.
--Michael
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I managed to get over 5 hours with the internal battery. Lights off, digi in, and not using the pass through signal to listen while it was recording. I will have an external ready but, for now I will just use the internal until I need to plug in an external. The battery meter goes down quick until about half way down. Then it is slow till the end. It will give you two different messages when it is running low. First is a "battery is low" warning. Then you get a "battery is out of power" and the recording stops and it writes the last file before shutting down. You get about 2 minutes between the two messages.
You should run it down a couple times and try it out. You might not need to run the external all the time. ;D
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if the MT2 battery is anything like the MT1 battery that 5hrs will drop fast
i would always have external power ready to go with these things
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I managed to get over 5 hours with the internal battery. Lights off, digi in, and not using the pass through signal to listen while it was recording. I will have an external ready but, for now I will just use the internal until I need to plug in an external. The battery meter goes down quick until about half way down. Then it is slow till the end. It will give you two different messages when it is running low. First is a "battery is low" warning. Then you get a "battery is out of power" and the recording stops and it writes the last file before shutting down. You get about 2 minutes between the two messages.
You should run it down a couple times and try it out. You might not need to run the external all the time. ;D
I'll try again today just to verify that I can fill up a 4GB card at 24/48 on the internal battery. My prediction is that there will be no problems. I'm still building confidence to run this thing solo when it really matters.
I need to get a bigger card too, so I can run the thing completely down while recording at 24/48....and maybe get to over 5 hours, like you (that's awesome, btw).
--Michael
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did another living room test with a different card. instead of the transcend 120x 8 gig card, i ran the 6 gig hitachi microdrive. went 2.5 hours without freezing up. could be the transcend card.
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did another living room test with a different card. instead of the transcend 120x 8 gig card, i ran the 6 gig hitachi microdrive. went 2.5 hours without freezing up. could be the transcend card.
did you have trouble with the 120x card in your MT1?
i know some people had trouble with faster cards and found cards around 40x worked best
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I have a MT1 and I know how the battery died quickly. I will be doing this test every so often to see. I will still have my 5volt backup in the bag, just in case. My MT1 never ran that long, even new.
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did another living room test with a different card. instead of the transcend 120x 8 gig card, i ran the 6 gig hitachi microdrive. went 2.5 hours without freezing up. could be the transcend card.
did you have trouble with the 120x card in your MT1?
i know some people had trouble with faster cards and found cards around 40x worked best
I've been using the Kingston Elite Pro 45X cards (4GB & 8GB) with the MT1 without a hitch - I snagged a MT2 and will continue to use the Kingston cards with it...
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I managed to get over 5 hours with the internal battery. Lights off, digi in, and not using the pass through signal to listen while it was recording. I will have an external ready but, for now I will just use the internal until I need to plug in an external. The battery meter goes down quick until about half way down. Then it is slow till the end. It will give you two different messages when it is running low. First is a "battery is low" warning. Then you get a "battery is out of power" and the recording stops and it writes the last file before shutting down. You get about 2 minutes between the two messages.
You should run it down a couple times and try it out. You might not need to run the external all the time. ;D
I'll try again today just to verify that I can fill up a 4GB card at 24/48 on the internal battery. My prediction is that there will be no problems. I'm still building confidence to run this thing solo when it really matters.
I need to get a bigger card too, so I can run the thing completely down while recording at 24/48....and maybe get to over 5 hours, like you (that's awesome, btw).
--Michael
Following anhisr's lead, I confirmed that I the MT II can last long enough fill a 4GB card on the internal battery behind a V3 recording at 24/48 with time to spare.
Still no lock ups. I've done about 12 hours of tests this weekend...
--Michael
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ed, that is the same card I run. So far no problems and I have run it up full many times. Already on file 74
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damn i am only on about file 74 with my mt1 and that includes test files as well
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Grace had me run a bunch of test and checking how the battery works. It has added up quickly.
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I managed to get over 5 hours with the internal battery. Lights off, digi in, and not using the pass through signal to listen while it was recording. I will have an external ready but, for now I will just use the internal until I need to plug in an external. The battery meter goes down quick until about half way down. Then it is slow till the end. It will give you two different messages when it is running low. First is a "battery is low" warning. Then you get a "battery is out of power" and the recording stops and it writes the last file before shutting down. You get about 2 minutes between the two messages.
You should run it down a couple times and try it out. You might not need to run the external all the time. ;D
This is great useful info, +T and Thanks!!
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Has the MTII digital in @ 24/96 been tested with anything other than a V3? Say, an Oade T+ mod UA-5? I'm thinking about selling both my JB3's and making the move to 24 bits.
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Has the MTII digital in @ 24/96 been tested with anything other than a V3? Say, an Oade T+ mod UA-5? I'm thinking about selling both my JB3's and making the move to 24 bits.
I'll test it w/ my W+ mod ua-5, I imagine it should be fine though. I've been putting my MTII through some cf card tests since it arrived yesterday, so far no problems w/ it freezing up from V3@24/96 using a transcend 8gb 133x card. I'll hook up the ua-5 @ 24/96 with my transcend 8gb 120x later and report back.
Edited to add:
No problems at all w/ the W+mod ua-5 @ 24/96 coax > MTII. Wrote 4/1.86gb files and 1/277MB file before the transcend 8gb 120x card filled up. I will be on the lookout for a card reader though, as it took ~45min to transfer the files, that just seems far too long for me. I'm going to keep testing the cards I have until a) I have a problem, or b) I feel confident that I won't have any issues out in the field.
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I bought a MT II a couple weeks ago and it had problems with locking up occasionally, mainly just after writing files when stopping recording, but also sometimes mid-recording. I got two subsequent replacement units and had the same problem with both of them. I just got a fourth unit from a different vendor altogether and it has the same trouble. I have 2 completely different CF cards (Transcend and SanDisk) and even tried a super expensive one at my local camera shop but I get the same problem no matter which card I use also. Of course M-Audio support was no help at all. I have been surprised to look around the web and not find any mention of this problem. Do you guys really all have MT II units that don't lock up all the time?
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I bought a MT II a couple weeks ago and it had problems with locking up occasionally, mainly just after writing files when stopping recording, but also sometimes mid-recording. I got two subsequent replacement units and had the same problem with both of them. I just got a fourth unit from a different vendor altogether and it has the same trouble. I have 2 completely different CF cards (Transcend and SanDisk) and even tried a super expensive one at my local camera shop but I get the same problem no matter which card I use also. Of course M-Audio support was no help at all. I have been surprised to look around the web and not find any mention of this problem. Do you guys really have MT II units that don't lock up all the time?
Yes, mine is fine. I'm using the latest firmware and the S/PDIF in only, however. I used it in the field both behind a V3 and a D8 several times now with no problems.
--Michael
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I bought a MT II a couple weeks ago and it had problems with locking up occasionally, mainly just after writing files when stopping recording, but also sometimes mid-recording. I got two subsequent replacement units and had the same problem with both of them. I just got a fourth unit from a different vendor altogether and it has the same trouble. I have 2 completely different CF cards (Transcend and SanDisk) and even tried a super expensive one at my local camera shop but I get the same problem no matter which card I use also. Of course M-Audio support was no help at all. I have been surprised to look around the web and not find any mention of this problem. Do you guys really have MT II units that don't lock up all the time?
Yes, mine is fine. I'm using the latest firmware and the S/PDIF in only, however. I used it in the field both behind a V3 and a D8 several times now with no problems.
--Michael
Yeah I've been testing the hell out of mine in anticipation of some upcoming shows and have had zero problems, again only using the spdif in. Still not sure I fully trust it in a mission critical environment though :-\.
I've also filed an online "incident" with m-audio about that issue yourself and others have had w/ lockups(and the no backlight when on hold), just to try and push them to do something for you all. Not sure where the issue lies though, and have yet to hear anything new from them.
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I've also filed an online "incident" with m-audio about that issue yourself and others have had w/ lockups(and the no backlight when on hold), just to try and push them to do something for you all. Not sure where the issue lies though, and have yet to hear anything new from them.
Ahh..so you have heard of this issue. I don't seem to be finding other people discussing lockups and was beginning to think I was crazy. If anyone has any links to lockup issues being discussed I'd be greatfull.
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I've also filed an online "incident" with m-audio about that issue yourself and others have had w/ lockups(and the no backlight when on hold), just to try and push them to do something for you all. Not sure where the issue lies though, and have yet to hear anything new from them.
Ahh..so you have heard of this issue. I don't seem to be finding other people discussing lockups and was beginning to think I was crazy. If anyone has any links to lockup issues being discussed I'd be greatfull.
Really the only place I've heard of it was earlier in this very thread, Deadheaded was having the problem and I believe someone else chimed in with issues as well. Not a whole lot of discussion about it, but it's something that caught my attention. Haven't seen whether they're still having problems or not, it seemed to be pretty regular with Ed's unit until he tried a different card, but don't know if he's had trouble since..
Maybe he can chime in if he sees this, with his experience since then, if any.
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Maybe we should be asking if newest version MT2 firmware has been installed?
This can make a big difference with flash card fault issues.
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Maybe we should be asking if newest version MT2 firmware has been installed?
This can make a big difference with flash card fault issues.
eds was original
daves is latest
not sure about anyone else
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Maybe we should be asking if newest version MT2 firmware has been installed?
All four of the units I have had exhibited the same locking problems with 1.0.0 and 1.0.1 firmware versions. I tested all of them with both a 4GB SanDisk Ultra II and a 4GB Transcend 133x. One unit I also took to my local camera shop and tried a "RAW" card which I believe are considered a high end card. They certainly had a high end price. Same problems.
Basically I press record (using default 1/8" to 16/44 wav) and then wait for anywhere from 0:30 to 5:00, hit rec again to stop, it writes the file, and then maybe 10-15% of the time the unit will no longer respond, requiring a hard shut down. I've also had it go through bouts of freezing while recording, usually at about 0:35 or 1:01 but that was much less consistent.
I want so bad for this unit to work. It is the only thing I've seen with real mic jacks (non 1/8") that is also pocket sized.
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This might be a simple question, but have you formatted the cards in the MT itself ? I've heard of some folks having problems with formatting done on a computer instead of in the MT.
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I learned that with the first MT. It is not full proof though.
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This might be a simple question, but have you formatted the cards in the MT itself ?
Yes. I've tried both MT II formatting and XP formatting. Same results.
I've heard through a reseller that M-Audio is working on a fix for a widespread freezing problem. Supposedly they will have a firmware upgrade within a week. I hope the problem is really a firmware one and not a hardware problem be covered up by software. It concerns me that so many units seem to work. Maybe they will be transparent about the origins of the problem, but somehow I doubt it.
It sounds like they have also had a lot of complaints about how noisy the pre-amp is. Mine is definitely quite noisy. I also get some bleed from the 1/8" input when I am recording from the 1/4" mics. It is hard to know if this is just the nature of the product or if these are problems with the curent manufacturing run.
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MicroTrack II BETA 01/25/2008 1.0.4 BETA MicroTrackII Firmware v1.0.4 BETA.zip
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=861
icroTrack II
Version: 1.0.4 BETA (BETA)
Release Date: January 25, 2008
Applies to:
MicroTrack II
Operating System(s):
Windows XP, Windows Vista 32-Bit
Release Notes:
This readme covers MicroTrack II Firmware v1.0.4 BETA.
Several issues reported from the field have been fixed - THANK YOU to those who cooperated on uncovering these issues. Users should be aware that this is a BETA release and it is therefore possible that bugs may still be present in this release. Please continue to check back at the M-Audio website (www.m-audio.com) for upcoming firmware releases.
============================================================
Release Notes:
- Resolved media test and media lock-up issues during record
- Fixed issue to turn off outputs when input monitoring was disabled
- Fixed bug of battery icon meter displaying strange animation when Nav wheel was pressed
- Improved behavior during fast-forwarding through long files
- Added safeguard against overwriting MTII resource file with MT24/96 resource file
- Fixed problem with Japanese fonts being shifted to the right
- Updated strings for Chinese, Japanese, and German languages
- Automated time/date format based on language selection
- Added Chinese option to time/date setting
============================================================
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So has anyone that was having the lockup/freezing problems updated their firmware yet? Did it help?
FWIW I hesitantly updated to the above BETA FW, and have not had any issues or noticed anything buggy about it at all.
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I have updated and so far, with a 16gb card, I have had no problems. There is still the problem that it can only hold 10gb straight without a break but, I don't see many bands playing 5 hours straight through without a break.
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i haven't used my mt2 in some time now. kinda put it on the back shelf.
have a paid archiving gig this weekend. will have to use all the recorders i have. mr-1000, mt 24/96, mt2 & jb-3.
will probably run mt 24/96 back up for the mr-1000 microphone recording. v-3 mt 2 & jb-3 for the sound board recording. will let everyone know about how the mt 2 goes spdif from the v-3 @ 24/48.
i updated the firmware when it came out, but haven't really used the mt 2 in the field since then.
happy taping
ed
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So has anyone that was having the lockup/freezing problems updated their firmware yet? Did it help?
FWIW I hesitantly updated to the above BETA FW, and have not had any issues or noticed anything buggy about it at all.
I was the one with the serious locking problems on recently purchased MT2's. I installed the new beta an have recorded about 15 tracks with it since with no problems. Not enough to be conclusive but highly encouraging. My real concern is why it would be that some units lock up but others don't with the same firmware. If it was really just a software problem wouldn't it affect all units?
Anyway, I'm just glad it works.
I noticed that the included 1/8" extension cable makes a nice antenna when used with the T mic. I got a whole bunch of buzzing noise in one recording. You always get punished for not checking the monitor. I guess it isn't really mic cable grade or not properly shielded or something. Any thoughts on 1/8" mic cables? I ordered some from microphonemadness.com and hopefully they will perform better.
David Aue
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So has anyone that was having the lockup/freezing problems updated their firmware yet? Did it help?
FWIW I hesitantly updated to the above BETA FW, and have not had any issues or noticed anything buggy about it at all.
I was the one with the serious locking problems on recently purchased MT2's. I installed the new beta an have recorded about 15 tracks with it since with no problems. Not enough to be conclusive but highly encouraging. My real concern is why it would be that some units lock up but others don't with the same firmware. If it was really just a software problem wouldn't it affect all units?
Anyway, I'm just glad it works.
David Aue
Not all units would necessarily lock. It really would depend on what was making it lock which would be any combination of factors. Glad it is fixed.
I was one of the original owners of the MT 2496. I still use it all the time for various stealth applications and occasionally as a bitbucket when traveling or when access to my Tascam is impractical. I love it and have made many many recordings. When it was brand new, it barely worked. In my experience, as they got the bugs out, it became better and eventually rock solid. For me the only flaw is the 2gb file limit as I like to use 24bit. This is not a huge problem, I can always find a spot to start a new file if the set is running long which is not often.
I plan to upgrade to the MT2, but I figure this time I will wait a while since I have a unit that does the job. I know that M-Audio gets hammered, but I suspect they will get the bugs worked out as fast as they are uncovered. In both instances, they announced that the software was Beta, but of course the salespeople never stress this.
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Has anyone tried the 1/4 inputs after the new firmware update? Is there still the same ratcheting noise present?
I do have to say that I am super happy with mine. Have run it at 16/44.1, 24/48 and 24/96 with success at all levels. Has anyone tried going in via the mic input?
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Update. I just ran my CA Omnis straight into the 1/8 Mic input and was astonished at the sound quality that I got without running the CA9100 preamp in front of it. Could make for an excellent stealth setup. >:D Did a living room test with some acoustic and bass infused funk and noticed that you have to run the input level at about 33% so that it doesn't clip. Going to test it out at my buddy's studio sometime this week. As far as the 1/4 in is concerned, the noise is only present when internal gain was turned up all the way and it was dead quiet. Going to try a couple more tests on the 1/4 inputs.
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This might be a simple question, but have you formatted the cards in the MT itself ?
Yes. I've tried both MT II formatting and XP formatting. Same results.
I've heard through a reseller that M-Audio is working on a fix for a widespread freezing problem. Supposedly they will have a firmware upgrade within a week. I hope the problem is really a firmware one and not a hardware problem be covered up by software. It concerns me that so many units seem to work. Maybe they will be transparent about the origins of the problem, but somehow I doubt it.
It sounds like they have also had a lot of complaints about how noisy the pre-amp is. Mine is definitely quite noisy. I also get some bleed from the 1/8" input when I am recording from the 1/4" mics. It is hard to know if this is just the nature of the product or if these are problems with the curent manufacturing run.
I had both of these problems, freezing and 1/4 input noise. I sent the unit to M-audio a month ago and no word from them except that it was received. If they solved one problem, I doubt they've solved both.
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Update. I just ran my CA Omnis straight into the 1/8 Mic input and was astonished at the sound quality that I got without running the CA9100 preamp in front of it. Could make for an excellent stealth setup. >:D Did a living room test with some acoustic and bass infused funk and noticed that you have to run the input level at about 33% so that it doesn't clip. Going to test it out at my buddy's studio sometime this week. As far as the 1/4 in is concerned, the noise is only present when internal gain was turned up all the way and it was dead quiet. Going to try a couple more tests on the 1/4 inputs.
MT2 1/8" input tested decently for being low (enough) noise AND without ugly switching noise of MT1. (see MT1 review on my site www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm#spectrum (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm#spectrum)
ONLY real problems is using unbalanced 1/4" inputs being fed with mics, but will work again to be low noise being driven from unbalanced low output impedance preamplifiers with noise almost identical to graph below showing balanced preamplifier noise plot into TRS inputs.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBu_SnagIt.gif)
MY MT2 deck was sent in several weeks ago for 'repair' of excessive unbalanced noise problem, lockups, and fault in 88.2K bandpass frequency. I haven't heard anything from M-audio as yet
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I've played with my MT II a couple times and have been pretty pleased. I did note one issue that I can't explain: I have an 8GB CF card in it. With 'Available Timed based on Media' as the default time setting, the MTII reports that I have 3:54 of recordable time. I'd expect it to be more like twice that amount at the 24/48 setting I'm using. Interestingly, I can record for an hour, stop the file and begin a new one and I'll see a new available time of 3:54 (so its apparently fine with writing > 4GB... just not all at once from one press of record). My PC detects it as an 8GB card, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any thought?
In other news, I've run digi-in @ 24/48 for over 4 hours on the internal battery (there was still juice left) and have also done some 4060-BB-MT testing and was quite impressed with the sound. If the issue above is the only problem I encounter I can definitely live with this.
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I've played with my MT II a couple times and have been pretty pleased. I did note one issue that I can't explain: I have an 8GB CF card in it. With 'Available Timed based on Media' as the default time setting, the MTII reports that I have 3:54 of recordable time. I'd expect it to be more like twice that amount at the 24/48 setting I'm using. Interestingly, I can record for an hour, stop the file and begin a new one and I'll see a new available time of 3:54 (so its apparently fine with writing > 4GB... just not all at once from one press of record). My PC detects it as an 8GB card, so I'm not sure what's going on. Any thought?
In other news, I've run digi-in @ 24/48 for over 4 hours on the internal battery (there was still juice left) and have also done some 4060-BB-MT testing and was quite impressed with the sound. If the issue above is the only problem I encounter I can definitely live with this.
the record time is showing at 24/96, basically 2gb/hr
you get approx 1gb/hr at 24/48
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are you saying that even if it's configured for 24/48 the record time will display as if I'm recording in 24/96? that makes zero sense if that is actually the case.
edit: also, this explanation does not explain why if I record for an hour, stop the recording and then start again I still see an available time of 3:54. If what you're saying is true, then I'd see a different available time because there is now only 7 gigs of free space which is more like 3:30 @ 24/96.
edit2: just read the whole thread a little more carefully... guess I should update to the beta 1.04 firmware... I immediately updatead to 1.01 before running what little testing I've done, but perhaps the beta version is better?
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well the mt1 shows you the total time based on 24/96
and the 4hrs adds to the same way
so i assumed thats whats its doing
but who knows, after all it is maudio we are talking about here :)
edit i just double checked my mt1
if you are running digi in then it 100% gives you the total time based on 24/96
if you set it to 1/4 in you can then set the sample rate as well and it gives you a different time based on the settings
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ONLY real problems is using unbalanced 1/4" inputs being fed with mics, but will work again to be low noise being driven from unbalanced low output impedance preamplifiers with noise almost identical to graph below showing balanced preamplifier noise plot into TRS inputs.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBu_SnagIt.gif)
damn that 1/4 unbalanced mic input plot is ugly!! :crazy:
ONLY real problems is using unbalanced 1/4" inputs being fed with mics, but will work again to be low noise being driven from unbalanced low output impedance preamplifiers with noise almost identical to graph below showing balanced preamplifier noise plot into TRS inputs.
just wondering, why would you get high noise with a mic feed but low noise from an unbalanced low output impedance preamp? Thanks for sharing your findings. +++
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well the mt1 shows you the total time based on 24/96
and the 4hrs adds to the same way
so i assumed thats whats its doing
but who knows, after all it is maudio we are talking about here :)
edit i just double checked my mt1
if you are running digi in then it 100% gives you the total time based on 24/96
if you set it to 1/4 in you can then set the sample rate as well and it gives you a different time based on the settings
That is awful... might not be such a big deal for the MT1, but given that one of the II's selling points is the ability to auto-magically & seemlessly switch to a new file this is suddenly a lot less useful. If I'm recording at 24/48, I'd expect to get about 8 hours out of my 8GB CF card. Unfortuately, if it's calculating the amount of record time based on 24/48, then it's going to assume I'm running out of space at about 4 hours when I've still got twice as much space left. I appreciate you looking, will... just not the answer I was hoping to hear. Guess I need to run some long term digi-in tests and see what's up.
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well the mt1 shows you the total time based on 24/96
and the 4hrs adds to the same way
so i assumed thats whats its doing
but who knows, after all it is maudio we are talking about here :)
edit i just double checked my mt1
if you are running digi in then it 100% gives you the total time based on 24/96
if you set it to 1/4 in you can then set the sample rate as well and it gives you a different time based on the settings
That is awful... might not be such a big deal for the MT1, but given that one of the II's selling points is the ability to auto-magically & seemlessly switch to a new file this is suddenly a lot less useful. If I'm recording at 24/48, I'd expect to get about 8 hours out of my 8GB CF card. Unfortuately, if it's calculating the amount of record time based on 24/48, then it's going to assume I'm running out of space at about 4 hours when I've still got twice as much space left. I appreciate you looking, will... just not the answer I was hoping to hear. Guess I need to run some long term digi-in tests and see what's up.
Are you formating it in the MTII? Did you update to the BETA 1.0.4 FW? If you haven't updated yet, that would probably be my first suggestion, the BETA seems pretty solid(like the MT1 I would use a small card for the update though). For 24/48 mine reports I can record for 07:59:05(transcend 8gb 120x card), so I'd guess there is either something up with your card or the MTII just thinks it's a 4gb card for some reason ???.
I've got the 1.0.4FW and never looked prior to updating if it showed the correct time remaining, so I'm not sure what is was saying before that.
On another note M-Audio seems rather confused still about the "no backlight on hold" issue, I got a note from them asking if I had it switched to "always on" or not... ::). They just don't seem to get the problem. It's been almost a month since I first reported that to them, and am just now getting a response that doesn't help.
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They closed my report about the backlight.
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I did format in the MTII. I am running 1.0.1 so I'll give 1.0.4 a try before my next test, but you've got me optimistic and I'll be sure to let all know. Thanks!
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well the mt1 shows you the total time based on 24/96
and the 4hrs adds to the same way
so i assumed thats whats its doing
but who knows, after all it is maudio we are talking about here :)
edit i just double checked my mt1
if you are running digi in then it 100% gives you the total time based on 24/96
if you set it to 1/4 in you can then set the sample rate as well and it gives you a different time based on the settings
That is awful... might not be such a big deal for the MT1, but given that one of the II's selling points is the ability to auto-magically & seemlessly switch to a new file this is suddenly a lot less useful. If I'm recording at 24/48, I'd expect to get about 8 hours out of my 8GB CF card. Unfortuately, if it's calculating the amount of record time based on 24/48, then it's going to assume I'm running out of space at about 4 hours when I've still got twice as much space left. I appreciate you looking, will... just not the answer I was hoping to hear. Guess I need to run some long term digi-in tests and see what's up.
oh no don't worry about that
see it gives you the total time based on 24/96, but once you start recording at 24/48 it will give you a total time for the 2gb split (which should be around 1:55)
and you do not lose any time
the reason it gives the time in 24/96 for the digi in is because with digi in you get the sample rate from the signal, so until it has a signal to know what sample is being fed to it it assumes the highest settings (24/96)
so although it seems like you are only getting 4hrs you will really get close to 8 and the mt will know it once it sees the 48 vs 96 sample rate coming in
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well the mt1 shows you the total time based on 24/96
and the 4hrs adds to the same way
so i assumed thats whats its doing
but who knows, after all it is maudio we are talking about here :)
edit i just double checked my mt1
if you are running digi in then it 100% gives you the total time based on 24/96
if you set it to 1/4 in you can then set the sample rate as well and it gives you a different time based on the settings
That is awful... might not be such a big deal for the MT1, but given that one of the II's selling points is the ability to auto-magically & seemlessly switch to a new file this is suddenly a lot less useful. If I'm recording at 24/48, I'd expect to get about 8 hours out of my 8GB CF card. Unfortuately, if it's calculating the amount of record time based on 24/48, then it's going to assume I'm running out of space at about 4 hours when I've still got twice as much space left. I appreciate you looking, will... just not the answer I was hoping to hear. Guess I need to run some long term digi-in tests and see what's up.
oh no don't worry about that
see it gives you the total time based on 24/96, but once you start recording at 24/48 it will give you a total time for the 2gb split (which should be around 1:55)
and you do not lose any time
the reason it gives the time in 24/96 for the digi in is because with digi in you get the sample rate from the signal, so until it has a signal to know what sample is being fed to it it assumes the highest settings (24/96)
so although it seems like you are only getting 4hrs you will really get close to 8 and the mt will know it once it sees the 48 vs 96 sample rate coming in
Willndmb, I thought the same thing when I was first reading that, but the MTII does have an option to show either time left to 2gb split, or time left on media. When I checked mine, the default was time left to 2gigs, so I had to switch it to time left on media, then I set it for trs in at 24/48 and it does give the total time left on media which for my card was 07:59:05. So there is something iffy going on with his card or MTII. But yeah if the FW update doesn't fix what it's saying, I would definitely just run it until stops and see if goes the whole 8gigs regardless of what it says.
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hmm well i don;t know
hopefully whatever the issue is it can be worked out
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Last post until I get to update the firmware and play some more but the 3:54 was showing after I was locked onto and recording a 24/48 signal (and it ticked down from 3:54). I'm not sure if a signal was running prior to plugging in and starting up the MTII, so I'll check that out, too. One more potential gotcha - for ease of testing I was recording from the coax-out of my computer. I'll try firing up the minime since that's ultimately what I'll be using this with. Thanks for the help, guys. I'll send another update soon.
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Last post until I get to update the firmware and play some more but the 3:54 was showing after I was locked onto and recording a 24/48 signal (and it ticked down from 3:54). I'm not sure if a signal was running prior to plugging in and starting up the MTII, so I'll check that out, too. One more potential gotcha - for ease of testing I was recording from the coax-out of my computer. I'll try firing up the minime since that's ultimately what I'll be using this with. Thanks for the help, guys. I'll send another update soon.
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ONLY real problems is using unbalanced 1/4" inputs being fed with mics, but will work again to be low noise being driven from unbalanced low output impedance preamplifiers with noise almost identical to graph below showing balanced preamplifier noise plot into TRS inputs.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBu_SnagIt.gif)
damn that 1/4 unbalanced mic input plot is ugly!! :crazy:
ONLY real problems is using unbalanced 1/4" inputs being fed with mics, but will work again to be low noise being driven from unbalanced low output impedance preamplifiers with noise almost identical to graph below showing balanced preamplifier noise plot into TRS inputs.
just wondering, why would you get high noise with a mic feed but low noise from an unbalanced low output impedance preamp? Thanks for sharing your findings. +++
Most mics have higher >300 ohm impedance than typical ~50 ohm drive ability of solid-state preamplifier output. With preamp driving unbalanced input, the ground reference noise is coupled into both -/+ TRS input in nearly equal manner, so noise is canceled (common-mode) in same way as balanced input. With higher impedance like from mic input, the noise signal is strong going into -minus input, and less strong (due to mic output ohms) into + plus ohms, so there's far less common-mode rejection of the noise signal riding on the input ground reference.
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Update... I loaded 1.0.4 beta firmware on and no change in my behavior.
For running digi-in at 24/48, the available time ticks down as if it were running at 24/96 (~3:54 in my 8gb card).
If I switch to 1/8" in and manually set everything to 24/48, I see an available time of ~7:54, so it seems the MT2 is able to 'see' the whole card and knows how big it is.
Just for shits and giggles I ran the thing at digi-in @ 24/48 out of my minime and left it running as long as it would allow and it ticked down to 3:54 and stopped. I rebooted the MTII and started a new recording and it detects the remaining ~4GBs and shows me a remaining time of ~1:55. so, it seems as though when running digi-in it is calculating the available time at 24/96 no matter what the actual input signal is (which is absolutely stupid in my mind). When I pull the files over to my computer, WaveLab4 sees them as 24/48, so the spdif stream is being detected correctly and the file header and data is presumably being written correctly, it's just the time remaining is being calculated incorrectly. Some quick tests at 24/44.1, 24/48 and 24/96 show the same thing but the time remaining always shows as if the stream were 24/96.
I don't have another card to try with it, but if the analog in is able to properly detect the size and calculate it based on 24/48 I don't know why the digi-in wouldn't.
In re-reading busterr's post, it looks like he checked his time remaining field going analog in. can anyone confirm that at digi-in the time-remaining calc is based on anything other than 24/96? Might be time for an m-audio incident report.... Thanks
Edit: Incident Report opened... we shall see what m-audio has to say.
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Alright rustoleum, I see what you're saying now, and yes I did only check the time previously in the menu portion w/ it set to analog in..and never tried recording (via spdif) to see what time actually ticks down. I just checked and when recording(from V3 @24/48 & 24/44.1) w/ "time left on media" setting, mine only shows ~3hrs58min as well.
I'm going to run mine down and see what happens, I suspect I'll have the same results as you. I do know when you have it set for "time until 2gb split" it does not calculate as if it were 24/96... in other words (again when actually recording) with the V3 set to 24/48 it shows ~1hr 55min, and at 24/44.1 ~2hr 05min remaining. So you may want to set it to "time until 2gb" and check to see if you can fill the card, I'm thinking it will. It just seems like a strange anomaly that M-Audio overlooked(like many other things).
I'll report back when I've tried both methods...up until now all my initial testing was done at 24/96, so I wouldn't have noticed anything odd. And when I'm out in the field I rarely run for more than ~2hr chunks at a time, and wouldn't notice if it's calculating was off. This is something M-Audio should have no problem fixing with an update though, it may not be quick, but they should be able to figure it out. I'll probably file an incident as well in a day or two to try to speed them up a bit.
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Thanks and +T for confirming, busterr... My next set of tests will be with "Time remaining until split" or whatever it's called. No info in my incident report, but I would imagine since this is just a calculation error and not a problem detecting and utilizing the spdif error that this can be addressed with a firmware update. The only question is how long will it take to be addressed.
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Thanks and +T for confirming, busterr... My next set of tests will be with "Time remaining until split" or whatever it's called. No info in my incident report, but I would imagine since this is just a calculation error and not a problem detecting and utilizing the spdif error that this can be addressed with a firmware update. The only question is how long will it take to be addressed.
Unfortunately having tried both settings now, it makes no difference what it's set to, mine shut down at 4gb as well, with both methods. I'll try my other card as well, but suspect the same results. I'll fill out an incident with them today.
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bummer... I got a reply from m-audio regarding my incident report:
"Please change the settings in the Options:Record Time Display and tell me if it then accurately displays the time in respect to the sample rate settings."
I'm at work now and therefore don't have my MTII handy, but I don't think this is a very helpful reply. I'm not sure if they're asking me to switch between Time Avail on Card vs. Time until split (which sounds like it won't make a difference) or if they want me to confirm the bit/sample rate settings (which can not be configured when set to SPDIF). ::)
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FWIW I recorded for 3+ hours last weekend at 24/96. Opener played for an hour and headliner for 2. Ran my V3 [updated firmware] at 24/96 spdif into my MT II [firmware 1.01] using a kingston 8g 133x CF card. Came home with 6.64g in several 1.86g files that I pasted together for a "seamless split". Unit chugged along with no issues. I have record display set to time left on media which looks like this "x:xx/3:51" Went just over 4g with the headliner with no issues. Hope that helps.
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FWIW I recorded for 3+ hours last weekend at 24/96. Opener played for an hour and headliner for 2. Ran my V3 [updated firmware] at 24/96 spdif into my MT II [firmware 1.01] using a kingston 8g 133x CF card. Came home with 6.64g in several 1.86g files that I pasted together for a "seamless split". Unit chugged along with no issues. I have record display set to time left on media which looks like this "x:xx/3:51" Went just over 4g with the headliner with no issues. Hope that helps.
Yeah Soling, there doesn't seem to be a problem filling 8gb cards if your recording @ 24/96, I've done it almost a dozen times...the problem is any bit/sample rate other than that. Even at 16/44.1 it calculates as if it's 16/96 and won't let you record for more than the 16/96 length, which is around 5:59:xx, when you should get close to 12hrs out of a 8gb card @16/44.1.
I've now checked with my 4gb card and it doesn't seem to have this issue of only filling 1/2 the card, so it appears it's unique to 8(+)gb cards
Once it stops or you stop it, you can simply hit record to fill the other 4gigs, so it's not really a huge deal unless you need to leave it running straight through for a long period of time.
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Is it just when the spdif signal comes off a V3 or does it do it with other A/Ds?
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Is it just when the spdif signal comes off a V3 or does it do it with other A/Ds?
I believe Rustoleum has used both his computer's digi-out and his mini-me...I've been using my V3.
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Just wanted to go over that before M Audio tries to tie this to a Grace problem.
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I've reproduced the issue with both a MiniMe and my computer's digi-out in 24/48 and 24/44.1
Just posted this update to my incident report in response to their question in a couple previous posts:
Here's an update upon further testing:
The record settings do not allow a selection of sample rate when the input is set to spdif (so there is no way to set it to the same values as my minime), but the bit depth is configured to 24.
When Options: Record Time is set to "time until 2gb split" the time remaining was calculated as though a 24/48 signal was detected (as was set on my minime). However, ultimately, the recording stopped as though the 24/96 calculation was still in effect. I left the MTII recording a 24/48 signal and being powered by an external source (so the MT2 did not run out of battery during these tests). With an 8gb card, I'd expect to be able to leave the MT2 recording a 24/48 signal for about 8 hours. When the MT2 stopped recording and shut itself down, I had 2 files that were 1:55:44 in length and a third file that is 2 minutes and 37 seconds. This means the MT2 recorded for ~3 hours and 54 minutes - the exact value that was incorrectly being calculated for the "time available on media" setting.
Fortunately, I was able to press record again and fill up much of the remaining space on the card with 3 hours and 54 more minutes of recording (for a total of 7 hours and 48 minutes), but with the 2gb split feature, I shouldn't need to press record again. If I want to be able to record a 24/48 signal for 8 hours without interruption, the MT2 should handle that. Clearly, there is still an issue in "time until 2gb split" mode where the MT2 stops recording and shuts itself down because it is determining this amount of time based on a 24/96 signal being recorded regardless of the actual signal.
Please let me know if you need any additional info. I am happy to provide further testing details if I am able to help.
Knowing now that I am able to press record again, I agree this is not as big a deal as I initially thought (and may still be if you're in "time on media" mode), but as long as I have the ear of a customer support guy, I'm going to be hopeful that they will resolve this and provide whatever assistance to them that I can.
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I just sent in a incident report on this issue also.
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I just sent in a incident report on this issue also.
Not sure what you guys have heard back on this, but I got a message from them stating that they successfully ran for 5+hrs @ 16/44.1. I had to inform him (in a nice way) thats nice and all, but I don't really care if it works for 16/44.1, and if he wasn't getting ~12 hrs on an 8gb card he was having the same problem anyway. I also noted that this didn't seem to be a problem on 4gb cards if that's what they used.
They just got back to me again and said that test was with a 4gb card, and they don't have an 8gb card to test with.
I told them I would test it @ 16bit for them, but I also left them a link for Newegg and told him to try to get the company to spring for an 8gb card :P. We'll see...they seem to be moving pretty slow on this so far.
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They just got back to me to try it with other cards. I told them I tried it with two different 8gb cards and a 16gb card. Pointed the person to the forum and this topic starting with page 8 so they could get on the same page. I also mentioned that the recording is 24/44.1 when reading the card in windows even though the MT II thinks it is 24/96. Maybe they will get what we are trying to tell them.
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I got this reply a day or two ago:
Today I ran a test recording to the MT II using the S/PDIF input and a 8GB CF Card.
The setting was set to S/PDIF 16-bit.
I connected a S/PDIF cable out of a PC (playing iTunes Radio) straight to the MT II.
So far, it's been recording for approx 5hrs. with the 2GB point being roughly 3hrs.
The only obvious problem that I can spot, without interrupting the recording or uploading the file is that the Right Channel cuts out for long periods of time, but it hasn't frozen or stopped the recording.
Since then, I've tried a 16/44.1 test and it stopped also. I'm not at home so I don't have the exact size/time of each file, but I'd put money on it being the equivalent of a 24/96 or 16/96 file. Interesting that this guys says he had an 8gb card given your tech support guys reply that he's using a 4gb and they don't have anything bigger. Also interesting about his channel cut-out issue. I haven't seen any problems like that.
A question: are you guys formatting through the MTII or through your computer? I don't think it should make a difference, but who knows? Also - is everyone at firmware 1.04?
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Yes I format with the MTII and I am using 1.04 Beta. I get the feeling that all the tech support is not in one room.
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Yep, I also only format in the MTII, and I am running the 1.0.4 BETA.
And yeah, it could be 2 or more different people working on this, I forget who was working on mine.
Right now, I'm about 1hr into a 16/44.1 test w/ an 8gb card, but seeing as it was only showing 5:59:xx instead of ~12:xx:xx for available time I suspect it will stop then, as yours did.
I have not had any channel dropouts whatsoever, so I'm not sure whats going on there ???.
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gonna test out that time left in file issue tomorrow and see how mine looks. My computer recognizes the files the way they were supposed to be recorded with the seamless split and at the sample rate/bit rate they were recorded in.
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Just replied to m-audio with the following info:
Hi Alex,
Did your recording exceed 6 hours non-stop?
I just ran a 16 bit/48 khz test with the following results:
At the conclusion of the test when the MT2 stopped recording and powered itself down, I had three files:
file 1: 1.86GB, 2:53:36 record time
file 2: 1.86GB, 2:53:35 record time
file 3: 36.0 MB, 0:3:16 record time
for a grand total of 5 hours, 50 minutes and 27 seconds.
With an "8GB" card (7.54GB avail for recording according to Windows) and 16/48 recording, I'd expect
= 11.7 hours (11 hours, 42 mins)
So, it turns out this 5 hours and 50 minutes and 27 seconds is the stop point I'd expect if I was running a signal at 16 bits, 96khz signal:
With 8Gb card and 16/96 recording, I'd expect
= 5.86 hours (~5 hours, 51 minutes) of record time [7.54 * 1024 (GB to MB) * 1024 (MB to KB) * 1024 (KB to B) * 8 (B to b) / 3072000 (bits / second of 16/96 recording) = 21083 seconds]
So my results seem to mimic the behavior I observed at 24/48 (where the stop point was calculated as though a 24/96 signal were being recorded). For a 16 bit recording, you would need to exceed 6 hours of record time with an 8GB card to have different results than what I've experienced, hence my initial question at the start of this reply. If a 24bit test were being run, you'd need to exceed 4 hours of record time (~3:54).
Thanks. Please let me know if you need more info, are unclear on my question or would like me to try anything else.
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Nicely laid out there Rustoleum...
And Alex is the same person dealing w/ my incident FWIW.
@ 16/44.1 mine stopped at ~5:57:xx, like I expected. Unfortunately I did not try to fill the rest of the card, which I should have tried, because after the first file it only showed 3:14:xx remaining(obviously it calculated the remaining~4.5gb at 16/96). I should have checked to see if it would go past that, but I re-formated too quickly, and just don't feel like trying again :-\.
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Got this reply about the 24/44 being read as 24/96 on time remaining.
This issue has been escelated* to verifications where we will attempt to re-create the behavior.
Then if we can re-create we can begin the resolution process.
* they need to turn on a spell checker. escalated
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I got this today:
Thank you for your test results.
It appears that the problem currently occurs with 8GB cards.
We have logged this issue and are addressing it in a future release of the firmware update for the MT II.
I would advise for you to find a temporary work around this problem, by keeping your recordings within the limited time span, until the new firmware version is released.
If you have any questions regarding this issue, please let me know.
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Maybe I need to tell my people that your people have obliviously recreated the problem and are working on a fix. Or I could just leave them alone.
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Unfortunately I have to chime in and say mine has now locked-up twice this month with 2 separate scenarios...running the 1.0.4 FW, Transcend 8gb 120x and the other time transcend 8gb 133x card, never had an issue w/ lockups in ~70 files run on these cards.
First time was somewhat user error(although still possibly a flaw in design/FW), having used a 4xAA battery pack with not exactly fresh batteries, battery pack died ~40min in, and the MTII apparently couldn't switch to the internal battery, and simply locked up at that point. That was running @ 24/48 via spdif. File has yet to be recovered after 3 attempts with 3 different programs.
Last night at Claypool it happened again(had no intentions of even using it, but his new policy dictated it)...this time I was running on the internal battery the whole time @ 24/48 via 1/8" mic input. It made it 1:43:xx in and that's where it stayed..locked up. No file visible on the card, although in the properties it shows ~ the correct size of said file, currently trying to recover that one.
Not really looking for help (unless someone can help recover the file/s ;), my attempts have been unsuccessful so far)...I will never trust this thing again, not that I ever did...but I will no longer be using it, it's just time for me to move on.
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I wonder if the MTII is just picky about media size/brand/speed?? I have recorded hours of stuff with SanDisk Ultra II 4GB cards and am not having troubles.
--Michael
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If I were running dpa4061 > dpa MMA6000 > MTII
Is the output of the dpa MMA6000 balanced or unbalanced? I'd be connecting the stereo 3.5 mm Mini-jack from the dpa MMA6000 to two 1/4" cables > the MTII.
Would I get the "sprinkler" noise that you get when running 1/4" unbalanced into the MTII? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question...
;)
Type MMA6000
Miniature Microphone Amplifier
Description Specifications Related products Related pages Graphs and more
Frequency range, ± 2 dB:
20 Hz - 20 kHz (+1/-1.5 dB)
Total harmonic distortion (THD):
<0.03%
Maximum output voltage:
+/- 1.5 V peak before clipping
Weight:
235 g (8.3 oz) excl. batteries
Operating temperature range:
-10° C to +50° C
Dimensions:
123 x 85 x 35 mm (4.8 x 3.3 x 1.4 in)
Colour:
Black
Input impedance:
>3 kOhm
Output impedance:
<50 Ohm
Crosstalk:
<-60 dB at 1 kHz
Battery life time:
>24 hours (professional quality Alkaline batteries within temp. range)
No. of channels:
2
Output connector:
3.5 mm Mini-jack, stereo
Input Connector:
2 MicroDots
Low cut:
Switchable: Flat or 100 Hz, 12 dB/octave
Equivalent input noise:
At 0 dB gain: <3 µV (RMS A-weight); At 37 dB gain: <1,5 µV (RMS A-weight)
Gain:
0 dB-37.5 dB in steps of approx. 2.5 dB
External input voltage range:
12-30 VDC
Power consumption:
20 mA, both channels loaded.
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that's too bad busterr. I've been pretty happy with mine despite the 8gb and larger issue. I've used it in the field a couple times and have also been digging the ease of DPA 4060 -> MTII for when I want to record myself on the guitar without the hastle and time consumption of breaking out the big rig.
I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question, dactylus, but the 3.5mm jack does not exhibit the "sprinkler" issue so you could always go MMA6000->3.5mm out -> MT II (3.5 in) if you do notice any issues with the 1/4"s.
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Today M-Audio closed both of my tickets. Either their is a new update coming soon or they don't care. If no update happens I am going to reopen the tickets. They have a box for that.
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Hey all - I was just cruising the last 3 or 4 pages in this thread and I don't have an MT so please excuse me ahead of time for anything stupid I might be about to suggest...
Does the MT use a FAT file system? If so, you might try formatting your cards on the PC with larger allocation tables. Stick it in the card reader and try "format <vol>: /a:64k" where <vol> is the drive letter assigned to the card reader. If you're reader balks on 64k, try 32k. When I jumped from 4GB to 8GB, I had to move up to 64k or the drive couldn't keep up after it got about 2/3 full.
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Today M-Audio closed both of my tickets. Either their is a new update coming soon or they don't care. If no update happens I am going to reopen the tickets. They have a box for that.
They sent me a reminder about two weeks or so ago to 'not forget to close' my ticket. I politely replied that I would not be closing it until I see a new firmware update that actually addresses the issue. Recognition of a problem does not equal resolution of the problem, in my mind.
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been following this thread so please excuse my ignorance but, what is a ticket from maudio?
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It is used to tell them of a problem.
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It is used to tell them of a problem.
ahhh, ok. Kinda thought that but was confused if maybe it wasnt' a voucher for a new improved or functioning unit.
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voucher for a new improved or functioning unit, you are a funny person
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The ticket is the thing they close when they get tired of your complaining.
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i am so glad i kept my mt1
the 2gb split (all i really cared about) isn't worth all this headache
hopefully they get things fixed and working for you guys, and then maybe i will upgrade
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voucher for a new improved or functioning unit, you are a funny person
yeah, in a perfect world
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i am so glad i kept my mt1
the 2gb split (all i really cared about) isn't worth all this headache
hopefully they get things fixed and working for you guys, and then maybe i will upgrade
Yeah I am in the same boat and went though all the beta pains with the MT I, didn't feel like dealing with it again, heh, my MT I is still running like a champ ...
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I wonder if the MTII is just picky about media size/brand/speed?? I have recorded hours of stuff with SanDisk Ultra II 4GB cards and am not having troubles.
--Michael
PhuUck! My MT II locked up. I lost a great Carbon/Silicon show...they were on, the crowd was in. The facts:
- The entire show was behind my V3 @ 24/44.1, S/PDIF in.
- On the opening band (Matt Pond PA), it locked up while writing the file. I rebooted it. The wav file is fine. I switched CF cards between sets, because I was weary.
- Both CF cards were San Disk Ultra II 4GB cards formatted in the MT II.
- about 30 mins into the Carbon/Silicon...the brutal lock up occurred.
- Firmware 1.0.1
- Latest V3 chip installed.
- No file on reboot. suck.
- I've recorded several hours/shows with this setup with absolutely no problems.
- heartbreak.
--Michael
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try 1.0.4 beta firmware.
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I wonder if the MTII is just picky about media size/brand/speed?? I have recorded hours of stuff with SanDisk Ultra II 4GB cards and am not having troubles.
--Michael
PhuUck! My MT II locked up. I lost a great Carbon/Silicon show...they were on, the crowd was in. The facts:
- The entire show was behind my V3 @ 24/44.1, S/PDIF in.
- On the opening band (Matt Pond PA), it locked up while writing the file. I rebooted it. The wav file is fine. I switched CF cards between sets, because I was weary.
- Both CF cards were San Disk Ultra II 4GB cards formatted in the MT II.
- about 30 mins into the Carbon/Silicon...the brutal lock up occurred.
- Firmware 1.0.1
- Latest V3 chip installed.
- No file on reboot. suck.
- I've recorded several hours/shows with this setup with absolutely no problems.
- heartbreak.
--Michael
I took a look this morning, and things are even more confusing. The input was set to the "1/8" jack. Of course, I didn't intentionally set it to that, as I recorded the opening act via S/PDIF. It takes several "clicks" to change the input, so it couldn't have happened by accident. My guess is that after the hard reboot, the setting went to a factory default? If, in fact, I did record Carbon/Silicon with the wrong input (and I didn't notice the lack of levels..possible...I watch the V3), the thing still locked up with the timer somewhere around 30 mins. If I remember correctly, people have reported lock ups using analog, so this might make some sense.
--Michael
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Knock on wood, I have been lucky so far. Sorry to hear about what sounded like a great show not getting captured.
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My guess is that after the hard reboot, the setting went to a factory default?
Ah, yes... I remember having that problem once with the MT I. In the heat of the moment, when you have no signal or levels, it is easy to forget the recorder may have lost the settings and isn't even reading from the previously selected input. That's the sort of "just a minor glitch" that is a big deal because it results in a failed recording.
It was good that you switched cards after the first problem. That can make or break later recovery efforts. That is a good reason to go with a couple of smaller cards vs. one giant 32GB, etc.
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It was good that you switched cards after the first problem. That can make or break later recovery efforts. That is a good reason to go with a couple of smaller cards vs. one giant 32GB, etc.
Good advice, I always carry a few 2 GB cards with me as well as my trust 8GB. They are all Kingston.
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It was good that you switched cards after the first problem. That can make or break later recovery efforts. That is a good reason to go with a couple of smaller cards vs. one giant 32GB, etc.
Good advice, I always carry a few 2 GB cards with me as well as my trust 8GB. They are all Kingston.
I do the same thing - Kingston cards with spares... They are sooooooooo cheap now that it is easy to do.
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Sorry to hear about what sounded like a great show not getting captured.
Carbon/Silicon's sound guy was sympathetic to my plight and offered to mail me a copy of the show....he was running a matrix. Really cool guy.
--Michael
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nice ;D
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Wow,
It's a bummer that the MT II has had so many issues. It really makes me feel bad that they (M-Audio) closed the office that I worked in last year and let me go since I would have been doing a majority of the testing and I'm fairly confident that because of my experience performing pretty much all of the testing on the MT I, I would have caught at least 80% of what your guys are seeing. Yes, the MT I had it's problems too but I always monitored this board to learn about any problems I didn't catch so I could get to work right away re-producing them and getting the info to the firmware programmers. But I just couldn't make the move to L.A. like they wanted (from Wisconsin where our office was located). I really do feel for you guys. I had hoped that the 'test' group they had in L.A. would be up to the challenge but I guess not so much. They were at a disadvantage however, being that they (AFAIK) were all musicians (not that there's anything wrong with that) who just happened to test products there, whereas for me, testing and QA are my profession having been doing it since the late 80's. I've now moved on to a Medical Device Company where my skills are being put to good use).
J.T.
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ONLY real problems is using unbalanced 1/4" inputs being fed with mics, but will work again to be low noise being driven from unbalanced low output impedance preamplifiers with noise almost identical to graph below showing balanced preamplifier noise plot into TRS inputs.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/-35dBu_SnagIt.gif)
damn that 1/4 unbalanced mic input plot is ugly!! :crazy:
ONLY real problems is using unbalanced 1/4" inputs being fed with mics, but will work again to be low noise being driven from unbalanced low output impedance preamplifiers with noise almost identical to graph below showing balanced preamplifier noise plot into TRS inputs.
just wondering, why would you get high noise with a mic feed but low noise from an unbalanced low output impedance preamp? Thanks for sharing your findings. +++
Most mics have higher >300 ohm impedance than typical ~50 ohm drive ability of solid-state preamplifier output. With preamp driving unbalanced input, the ground reference noise is coupled into both -/+ TRS input in nearly equal manner, so noise is canceled (common-mode) in same way as balanced input. With higher impedance like from mic input, the noise signal is strong going into -minus input, and less strong (due to mic output ohms) into + plus ohms, so there's far less common-mode rejection of the noise signal riding on the input ground reference.
Got word yesterday from M-audio tech my sent-in-for-repair or refund is NOT repairable for known issues, and purchase price for MT2 is being refunded.
So for sure unbalanced input noise issue is now officially an MT2 'product feature' as explained by M-Audio.
However, although not mentioned, the 88.2K bandwidth shortcoming with MT2 applying wrong filter may still be firmware corrected, but I'll never know for not getting the unit back to bench test.
I hope for owners of MT2 using 88.2K mode at least this issue is not a 'standard feature' and will eventually be fixed with a firmware update. So those using 88.2K sampling rate might still have a non-addressed problem with ~ 20,000 cycle bandwidth limitation until further notice.
So I continue to use my MT1 as the better Microtrack model version for analog input performance reasons.
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Amazing, this is the first time i see the second generation of a product being worse than the first one :o ??? ???
Is there any custom solution to solve the sprinkler noise "feature" ?
Best.
Just for the hell of it I sent my MT II in to DPA to be tested with my 4061 mics & dpa mma6000 just to see if DPA could come up with a fix for the "sprinkler noise". What did I have to lose?
dpa 4061 > dpa mma6000 > unbalanced 1/4" TRS > MT II
The results were as follows: Using the unbalanced 1/4" TRS inputs a "sprinkler noise free" recording could be produced when turning the gain all the way down on the MT and doing all of the gain adjustment with the dpa mma6000 amplifier..
That is great news and that is the procedure I followed with my MT I anyway- Can't wait to try and duplicate it when my gear arrives back here!! Thank you DPA! - Forget you M-Audio..
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i read a few pages and i dont think this has been reported just yet.
i have been using the MTII about 10 times now, however in the last 2 weeks i had the same problem twice:
i started the recording, checked that the levels werent clipping, put it back in my pocket and enjoyed the gig.
just to give it a check up on the runnig time i took the mtII out of my pocket to find out both times that the recording wasnt actually going on.
when connecting to the computer both times i could see a file but it was resulting empty.
i was running the 1.0.4 beta version, the first time at 24/96 the second at 24/48.
any ideas?
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i read a few pages and i dont think this has been reported just yet.
i have been using the MTII about 10 times now, however in the last 2 weeks i had the same problem twice:
i started the recording, checked that the levels werent clipping, put it back in my pocket and enjoyed the gig.
just to give it a check up on the runnig time i took the mtII out of my pocket to find out both times that the recording wasnt actually going on.
when connecting to the computer both times i could see a file but it was resulting empty.
i was running the 1.0.4 beta version, the first time at 24/96 the second at 24/48.
any ideas?
You said that you had recorded 8 times before without a problem with this same device?
It is VERY EASY to accidentally hit the STOP / RECORD on the MTs when slipping it in and out of a tight pocket or when someone bumps into you when you have it in a pocket. You should check periodically throughout the show to confim that you haven't turned the machine off inadvertently...
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i read a few pages and i dont think this has been reported just yet.
i have been using the MTII about 10 times now, however in the last 2 weeks i had the same problem twice:
i started the recording, checked that the levels werent clipping, put it back in my pocket and enjoyed the gig.
just to give it a check up on the runnig time i took the mtII out of my pocket to find out both times that the recording wasnt actually going on.
when connecting to the computer both times i could see a file but it was resulting empty.
i was running the 1.0.4 beta version, the first time at 24/96 the second at 24/48.
any ideas?
You said that you had recorded 8 times before without a problem with this same device?
It is VERY EASY to accidentally hit the STOP / RECORD on the MTs when slipping it in and out of a tight pocket or when someone bumps into you when you have it in a pocket. You should check periodically throughout the show to confim that you haven't turned the machine off inadvertently...
Hold button anyone?
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just to give it a check up on the runnig time i took the mtII out of my pocket to find out both times that the recording wasnt actually going on.
any ideas?
Yes... Be thankful that it didn't explode in your pants.
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just to give it a check up on the runnig time i took the mtII out of my pocket to find out both times that the recording wasnt actually going on.
any ideas?
Yes... Be thankful that it didn't explode in your pants.
NEVER had a problem with explosions or HEAT...
:P
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I've recently had a MTII related failure. My walwart has stopped giving the MTII a full charge. I've tested both the walwart vs. computer usb and have been able to replicate that the walwart will trick the MTII (and my McCally battery) into not charging. Not good......
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I've recently had a MTII related failure. My walwart has stopped giving the MTII a full charge. I've tested both the walwart vs. computer usb and have been able to replicate that the walwart will trick the MTII (and my McCally battery) into not charging. Not good......
I would definitely inform M-Audio about this - and then see if they respond.
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I've recently had a MTII related failure. My walwart has stopped giving the MTII a full charge. I've tested both the walwart vs. computer usb and have been able to replicate that the walwart will trick the MTII (and my McCally battery) into not charging. Not good......
I would definitely inform M-Audio about this - and then see if they respond.
Why would M-Audios feel responsible for a malfunctioning aftermarket walwart (from wally world?), or is this THE original USB 'wall wart' that came with the M-Audio deck?
IF from M-Audio, check USB charger with a different cable just to be sure it's the wall wart, and not a defective cable you can replace in a pinch without waiting for warranty solutions. However, I would think both are covered by manufacturers 1 year replacement warranty.
What IS NOT covered is using the M-Audio charger to charge A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BATTERY other than what's inside the MT2, and if the charger breaks trying to charge a different battery, I would not tell then how you were using it as this is abuse NOT COVERED in the replacement warranty.
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I've recently had a MTII related failure. My walwart has stopped giving the MTII a full charge. I've tested both the walwart vs. computer usb and have been able to replicate that the walwart will trick the MTII (and my McCally battery) into not charging. Not good......
I would definitely inform M-Audio about this - and then see if they respond.
Why would M-Audios feel responsible for a malfunctioning aftermarket walwart (from wally world?), or is this THE original USB 'wall wart' that came with the M-Audio deck?
IF from M-Audio, check USB charger with a different cable just to be sure it's the wall wart, and not a defective cable you can replace in a pinch without waiting for warranty solutions. However, I would think both are covered by manufacturers 1 year replacement warranty.
What IS NOT covered is using the M-Audio charger to charge A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BATTERY other than what's inside the MT2, and if the charger breaks trying to charge a different battery, I would not tell then how you were using it as this is abuse NOT COVERED in the replacement warranty.
This is THE original USB 'wall wart'. The McCally battery is a external USB source that will provide power via USB to the Microtrack II. Neither is being charged effectively via the walwart. Oh, and a USB walwart should effectively pass USB signal/power to any USB powered item. USB is a standard output, it is meant to be interchangable.
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I've recently had a MTII related failure. My walwart has stopped giving the MTII a full charge. I've tested both the walwart vs. computer usb and have been able to replicate that the walwart will trick the MTII (and my McCally battery) into not charging. Not good......
I would definitely inform M-Audio about this - and then see if they respond.
Why would M-Audios feel responsible for a malfunctioning aftermarket walwart (from wally world?), or is this THE original USB 'wall wart' that came with the M-Audio deck?
IF from M-Audio, check USB charger with a different cable just to be sure it's the wall wart, and not a defective cable you can replace in a pinch without waiting for warranty solutions. However, I would think both are covered by manufacturers 1 year replacement warranty.
What IS NOT covered is using the M-Audio charger to charge A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BATTERY other than what's inside the MT2, and if the charger breaks trying to charge a different battery, I would not tell then how you were using it as this is abuse NOT COVERED in the replacement warranty.
This is THE original USB 'wall wart'. The McCally battery is a external USB source that will provide power via USB to the Microtrack II. Neither is being charged effectively via the walwart. Oh, and a USB walwart should effectively pass USB signal/power to any USB powered item. USB is a standard output, it is meant to be interchangable.
USB available power, as provided by the internals of a computer connection is standardized to be one of two power levels. USB connected power from various external wall warts chargers are expected to supply ONLY standard 4.7-5.2 volt output, but available charger current is up to the requirements of the device it was meant to service which may or may not be within the amperage range of computer power standards.
While I recall the MT1 was supposed to be chargeable from both computer and the supplied wall wart USB charger, computer USB power seemed limited to not supply complete charging of the MT1 battery, where the more powerful than 'standard-USB' wall wart had no problems providing a full MT1 battery charge.
If you use the M-Audio USB wall wart charger to charge a DIFFERENT BATTERY, it is possible a different surge characteristic of the McCally battery caused the M-audio charger to be stressed in some manner to break, and/or blow a permanent internal fuse to not work anymore.
Therefore, it is possible the McCally battery broke your charger.
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I've been using the MT wall wart to charge both my MTI and my Mcally battery with no issues. I've also charged the MTI through the PC and it charged the battery full, YMMV ...
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caused the M-audio charger to be stressed in some manner to break, and/or blow
M-audio product fail under stress? Shocked!
M-audio product blow (figuratively and literally)? Not so shocked.
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If I were running dpa4061 > dpa MMA6000 > MTII
Is the output of the dpa MMA6000 balanced or unbalanced? I'd be connecting the stereo 3.5 mm Mini-jack from the dpa MMA6000 to two 1/4" cables > the MTII.
Would I get the "sprinkler" noise that you get when running 1/4" unbalanced into the MTII? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question...
;)
So if I have the CA-ST11 mics terminated in a single 1/8" plug.....into the CA-9100 preamp (which only has a single gain control)....using the single 1/8" jack from the 9100 split into two 1/4" TRS plugs and into the MTII.
Here's where my newby-ness comes into play...By having a single gain control on the 9100, does that give me a balanced output to the dual-TRS input on the MTII? I'll also have the left/right gain on the MTII linked together and set about 3/4 of the way up. I'll be doing all the gain control from the CA-9100 preamp.
I guess the answer I'm looking for is...In my scenario above, does that give me a balanced output which would eliminate the "sprinkler" sounds that people are getting from unbalanced outputs to the TRS inputs of the MTII?
Thanks for any info!
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If I were running dpa4061 > dpa MMA6000 > MTII
Is the output of the dpa MMA6000 balanced or unbalanced? I'd be connecting the stereo 3.5 mm Mini-jack from the dpa MMA6000 to two 1/4" cables > the MTII.
Would I get the "sprinkler" noise that you get when running 1/4" unbalanced into the MTII? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question...
;)
So if I have the CA-ST11 mics terminated in a single 1/8" plug.....into the CA-9100 preamp (which only has a single gain control)....using the single 1/8" jack from the 9100 split into two 1/4" TRS plugs and into the MTII.
Here's where my newby-ness comes into play...By having a single gain control on the 9100, does that give me a balanced output to the dual-TRS input on the MTII? I'll also have the left/right gain on the MTII linked together and set about 3/4 of the way up. I'll be doing all the gain control from the CA-9100 preamp.
I guess the answer I'm looking for is...In my scenario above, does that give me a balanced output which would eliminate the "sprinkler" sounds that people are getting from unbalanced outputs to the TRS inputs of the MTII?
Thanks for any info!
I think if you turn the gain of the MTII all the way down and just rely on the 9100 gain you'll be OK. That's the way I'm running mine tonight, so I'll let you know tomorrow...
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If I were running dpa4061 > dpa MMA6000 > MTII
Is the output of the dpa MMA6000 balanced or unbalanced? I'd be connecting the stereo 3.5 mm Mini-jack from the dpa MMA6000 to two 1/4" cables > the MTII.
Would I get the "sprinkler" noise that you get when running 1/4" unbalanced into the MTII? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question...
;)
So if I have the CA-ST11 mics terminated in a single 1/8" plug.....into the CA-9100 preamp (which only has a single gain control)....using the single 1/8" jack from the 9100 split into two 1/4" TRS plugs and into the MTII.
Here's where my newby-ness comes into play...By having a single gain control on the 9100, does that give me a balanced output to the dual-TRS input on the MTII? I'll also have the left/right gain on the MTII linked together and set about 3/4 of the way up. I'll be doing all the gain control from the CA-9100 preamp.
I guess the answer I'm looking for is...In my scenario above, does that give me a balanced output which would eliminate the "sprinkler" sounds that people are getting from unbalanced outputs to the TRS inputs of the MTII?
Thanks for any info!
I think if you ou'll be OK. That's the way I'm running mine tonight, so I'll let you know tomorrow...
huskerdu,
Did you get the "sprinkler" sounds or were you able to eliminate that FLAW by turning the gain of the MTII all the way down and just relying on the 9100 gain?
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huskerdu,
Did you get the "sprinkler" sounds or were you able to eliminate that FLAW by turning the gain of the MTII all the way down and just relying on the 9100 gain?
I had no sprinkler sound with the MTII gain all the way down and making all adjustments with the 9100. If you can, try to set your 9100 gain at soundcheck because when the knob is turned it causes a noise itself: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94237.8.html
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huskerdu,
Did you get the "sprinkler" sounds or were you able to eliminate that FLAW by turning the gain of the MTII all the way down and just relying on the 9100 gain?
I had no sprinkler sound with the MTII gain all the way down and making all adjustments with the 9100. If you can, try to set your 9100 gain at soundcheck because when the knob is turned it causes a noise itself: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94237.8.html
FYI Chris at ChurchAudio can fix that gain adjustment noise now...
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huskerdu,
Did you get the "sprinkler" sounds or were you able to eliminate that FLAW by turning the gain of the MTII all the way down and just relying on the 9100 gain?
I had no sprinkler sound with the MTII gain all the way down and making all adjustments with the 9100. If you can, try to set your 9100 gain at soundcheck because when the knob is turned it causes a noise itself: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94237.8.html
Just to clarify, this was using the CA mics>9100 pre>1/8" to dual TRS inputs>MTII, correct? So gain on the MTII all the way down and adjust with the 9100 only, correct? Thanks, I appreciate your time confirming this for us.
Does this "sprinkler" sound appear if you go 9100>1/8" to 1/8" jack>MTII? Is there a big difference in using either method? I was under the impression that using the TRS inputs on the MTII would provide a better sounding recording? Anyone care to discuss?
Thanks and +T's.
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huskerdu,
Did you get the "sprinkler" sounds or were you able to eliminate that FLAW by turning the gain of the MTII all the way down and just relying on the 9100 gain?
I had no sprinkler sound with the MTII gain all the way down and making all adjustments with the 9100. If you can, try to set your 9100 gain at soundcheck because when the knob is turned it causes a noise itself: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94237.8.html
FYI Chris at ChurchAudio can fix that gain adjustment noise now...
I just received my 9100 from him less than two weeks ago, so I'm wondering why he shipped it to me if he had a way to eliminate that noise... ???
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huskerdu,
Did you get the "sprinkler" sounds or were you able to eliminate that FLAW by turning the gain of the MTII all the way down and just relying on the 9100 gain?
I had no sprinkler sound with the MTII gain all the way down and making all adjustments with the 9100. If you can, try to set your 9100 gain at soundcheck because when the knob is turned it causes a noise itself: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,94237.8.html
Just to clarify, this was using the CA mics>9100 pre>1/8" to dual TRS inputs>MTII, correct? So gain on the MTII all the way down and adjust with the 9100 only, correct? Thanks, I appreciate your time confirming this for us.
Does this "sprinkler" sound appear if you go 9100>1/8" to 1/8" jack>MTII? Is there a big difference in using either method? I was under the impression that using the TRS inputs on the MTII would provide a better sounding recording? Anyone care to discuss?
Thanks and +T's.
The sprinkler sound only appears when using UNBALANCED 1/4" TRS Inputs
No "sprinkler noise" problem using the 1/8" to 1/8" jack > MTII or BALANCED 1/4" TRS Inputs.
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Okay, dumb questions here, how do you know if it is unbalanced or balanced?
Is there a better sound quality using the 1/4" TRS inputs versus the 1/8" input?
Thanks for entertaining my newbie questions. +T
EDIT: On the M-Audio site it states: "Professional balanced ¼” TRS inputs capable of mic or line-level signals." So does this mean the signal from the preamp, in my case the 9100, needs to be a balanced signal? One gain knob controlling both mics is NOT a balanced signal? Someone enlighten me please. I'll buy you a beer. :cheers:
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bump... finally tried 1.0.6 firmware which looked to fix the SPDIF "Record Time Available" issue summarized in great detail in this thread:
From http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=904
"Record timeline fixed in s/pdif mode."
Unfortunately my test results were not changed... After updating, I hooked up my MiniMe running at 24/48 and an 8Gb card still reported ~3:54 remaining (should be more like 8 hours). I tried running a digital signal prior to connecting the MT2 and also tried setting everything up after a connection was made, each to no avail. I let the thing run anyway just in case, and it stopped recording at 3:54.
Looks like this "fix" is bunk according to my tests.
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i read a few pages and i dont think this has been reported just yet.
i have been using the MTII about 10 times now, however in the last 2 weeks i had the same problem twice:
i started the recording, checked that the levels werent clipping, put it back in my pocket and enjoyed the gig.
just to give it a check up on the runnig time i took the mtII out of my pocket to find out both times that the recording wasnt actually going on.
when connecting to the computer both times i could see a file but it was resulting empty.
i was running the 1.0.4 beta version, the first time at 24/96 the second at 24/48.
any ideas?
You said that you had recorded 8 times before without a problem with this same device?
It is VERY EASY to accidentally hit the STOP / RECORD on the MTs when slipping it in and out of a tight pocket or when someone bumps into you when you have it in a pocket. You should check periodically throughout the show to confim that you haven't turned the machine off inadvertently...
Hold button anyone?
obviously the hold button was on locked position...im not an idiot...
i have also another problem which also happend twice before and now once again...i was recording from a soundboard. checked every once in a while that all was going good...
the first band recording went fine.
the headliners files did not save however.
if i connect the mt2 to my pc, the file is there but it results as 0GB.
someone mentioned me to do something with the head of the wav file...can anyone explain please?
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manitouman, you asked:
> On the M-Audio site it states: "Professional balanced ¼” TRS inputs capable of mic or line-level signals." So does this mean the signal from the preamp, in my case the 9100, needs to be a balanced signal? One gain knob controlling both mics is NOT a balanced signal? Someone enlighten me please.
This use of the word "balanced" doesn't refer to the relative levels between the two channels, such as the "balance control" on a stereo amplifier or receiver would affect. Instead, it refers to the preferred way of sending signals down a cable in professional audio, which differs from the way used in consumer audio.
In consumer audio, cables are shielded, the shields are connected to the chassis of the equipment that they're plugged into on both ends, and each channel has one signal-bearing lead wrapped within the shield. In balanced connections there are two independent signal-bearing leads within the shield for each channel. Neither signal lead is connected to the shield at either end of the connection.
Also--this may seem technical, but it's essential--those two signal-bearing wires are at the same impedance (relative to ground) as each other. That's what creates the "balance." Because of the identical impedance, Ohm's Law tells us that as the signal voltage rises and falls, the current flowing in the two conductors will always be identical to each other at any given moment, with equal and opposite signal voltages.
That's the key, since a balanced input responds ONLY to the difference in voltage between those two leads--ignoring the voltage between either lead and ground. Any interference that the cable picks up should affect the voltage in both signal leads equally, leaving their voltage relationship intact. In this way a balanced input essentially ignores interference, and that's why balanced connections are the norm in professional audio.
A typical unbalanced input connector is an RCA socket--a coaxial "pin plug" such as you'd find at the CD inputs of a hi-fi preamp or receiver. It has an outer contact (shield/ground) and an inner contact which connects with the pin of the plug. A typical balanced input connector is an XLR-3F, which has shield/ground on pin 1 and the two signal leads on pins 2 and 3. The MicroTrack's "stereo phone" sockets are an alternative to XLR sockets, with the shield/ground on the sleeve of the connector and the tip and ring being the two signal connections.
Any balanced input can accept unbalanced signals, but not all ways of hooking up such an arrangement are created equal. The ideal way, if you want best noise immunity, is to create a balanced signal at the output of the signal source; then use balanced cable and a balanced plug. There are other ways to connect unbalanced sources to balanced inputs, but they don't get you the noise immunity of a balanced connection.
--best regards
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mr. D.Satz,
just to say that i have been collecting your contributions from here and PSW. If there is a God, may He shower His choicest blessings on You.
jai shankar.
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"it's the same 1/4" plug as you'd find on any set of stereo headphones"
which is to say it has electrical contacts at tip, ring and sleeve positions
on the plug (hence called a TRS plug).
Like DSatz says, a balanced cable has two conductors carrying the output
signal from one mic, and one conductor acting as ground. This is why the
MT II needs two 1/4" inputs: One for left channel, and one for right channel.
Just to make things more confusing, most of the TRS cables you'll find
are unbalanced. The Tip carries one channel, the Ring carries the
other channel, and the sleeve is ground. This is the way most 1/8-inch
mini-jacks are wired in consumer gear.
The MT II gives you a choice. You can run the input from two mics unbalanced
into the single 1/8-inch mic input on the top of the recorder, or you can use
separate cables for balanced input into the two 1/4-inch jacks.
Flintstone
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So I went on a trip to Alpine Valley and caught the Crowes + DMB for two nights. I had the MBHO's and 702 recording but also wanted to see how well the MTII did. I did two recordings for both nights.
Night one: Ran CA-ST11's with the omni caps, mounted to stand @ 10'. Plugged into Phillips extension cable (which was cheap at Wal-mart and worked great!), plugged into 1/8" jack on CA-9100 pre>1/8" mini to 2X 1/4" TRS plugs>MTII. Latest firmware, recording at 24/96.
To avoid the sprinkler sound I've heard about, I did lowered the gain on the MTII all the way down, and did all adjustments on the 9100 pre. The Black Crowes set turned out good. Forgot my USB cable to connect external battery pack so I didn't record DMB on night one.
Night two: Same set-up but mics @12'. The Black Crowes turned out good. Powered off between sets. Turned on 9100 and then turned on MTII. That's how I always power up. Started to record DMB. Right before the encore (or during) I noticed that the MTII had froze up at about 2 hours 43 minutes. Since I was recording with the 702 as well, I wasn't too worried about it. But the MTII would not power off or do anything. Halfway into the first encore song, it was blank so I powered it back up and resumed recording the rest of the encore.
I guess I don't understand what happened. I had plenty of power with the Macally external, plenty of disc space. It just froze. It was very well ventilated so heat was not an issue. Warm but not more than any other time I've used it. I don't get it. And the file that was writing at the time of freezing says it's 0. But I've read threads where it explains how to retrieve it with software so I'll try that. I just would hate to be in a situation where the MTII is my main rig and this happens.
This happen to anyone else? Any thoughts? Greatly appreciated!
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Although this deck has been known to lock up, sometimes it's the type of flash card (working in super fast burst mode) that can be at fault.
Suggest using cards with continuous write speed specifications, and not those only listing 100x+ times type ratings.
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Although this deck has been known to lock up, sometimes it's the type of flash card (working in super fast burst mode) that can be at fault.
Suggest using cards with continuous write speed specifications, and not those only listing 100x+ times type ratings.
Thanks for the input. I forgot to mention the flash card type: Kingston elite pro 8GB 45X compact flash. So it's not some cheapo card. Would this still lock it up? I was thinking that maybe because the show was so long that that could have locked it up. I dunno...
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Kingston Elite Pro type cards seem to have mostly good reports, so no help.
Firmware upgrade does seem most appropriate for MT2 lockup issues with otherwise OK working card types.
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Kingston Elite Pro type cards seem to have mostly good reports, so no help.
Firmware upgrade does seem most appropriate for MT2 lockup issues with otherwise OK working card types.
This may be meaningless, but on the MT1, prior to the last firmware upgrade (or maybe second to last) I had lots of trouble with Kingston cards locking up. After that upgrade however I never had a problem again. It may be possible that with an early firmware release on the MT2, perhaps the card is responsible for the lockup. It makes sense, but again, I am somewhat comparing maybe not apples to oranges , so much as a peach to a nectarine... ;D
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Two more strikes against the MTII for me. Night before I taped Foo at Red Rocks. At the encore everything looked good, checked the battery level and I still had half going so I didn't plug in the external battery pack for fear of locking up on me. The show was about 2:15 long, encore about 20 minutes including break. Figured I was good, didn't look at it again until the end. It had shut down, no encore at all was recorded. Pissed!
Night two: I had everything going good, waited till about an hour into the show and figured it was a safe place to plug in the external battery pack. A couple songs later, it was locked up. The screen still had the recording displayed but it was not moving anymore, just locked up. Wouldn't turn off, wouldn't do nothing. Unplugged the battery, took everything I had to not throw the thing on the ground and stomp on it! Finally, it shut down on it's own and I fired it back up without the external battery and it recorded the rest fine.
So I have two incomplete recordings. First night is missing the 3 song encore and the second night is missing two songs in the middle. The first half of night two is missing the header information so I've been looking around for an easy fix for that. The file shows 1.86 GB (24/96) so it's there but when I try to open in Cool Edit Pro it says it has no header. So I'll try to figure out how to fix that.
Any clues on the MTII locking up with external battery applied? I'll be shopping around for a replacement. I almost wish I never got rid of my MTI which I never had a problem with. 2GB split was not worth it to "upgrade" to this junker.
One word....UNRELIABLE! :-\
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Are you running the newest firmware? I haven't had any trouble with mine locking up. May be that you have a lemon. I'd think about sending it in for a replacement.
Another suggestion, I have my Macally battery plugged in at the start of a recording when I know that I may need secondary battery juice to get me through. Hasn't caused any lockups. If/when the external gets low, I wait for a break in the music to shut it off.
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Manitou, I run my external full time. Try just running it off the external the whole show. That should solve your problem.
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I only have an MT 1, but it sounds like you have a bad unit. I have never had any kind of battery lockup. I plug in and pull out the battery all the time, and never give it a second thought.
Generally, I use a Zap battery, and I always use it whether I need it or not. I accept the fact that the MT has a short lifespan, but the Zap battery is thin and I use a retractable USB cable that is really not noticeable. Almost always when a show is over, my MT shows an icon with a little electric plug, indicating that it is fully charged. The Zap battery seems to have a lot of life to it.
I know the MT2 is a different animal, but it seems unlikely that the battery would lock the unit up unless there is a problem with the unit. And again, I do not know if this is true with the MT2, but the MT1 charges more fully when it is powered on. I never get the little plug icon with the unit charging while it is powered off. It just seems to stop charging at some point. With the unit powered on though, it will charge fully. It is a quirk of the unit (and it is quirky), but never a problem caused by this.
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^^^Thanks for the info and replies. I may just have a lemon. Which is okay, I'll just have to send it in.
I have the latest firmware 1.0.4, which is actually the only release available on M-Audio's page. The first time it locked on me at the Black Crowes/DMB I had the external Macally battery plugged in. It looked like it was charging with the battery indicator scrolling. Then it had the little plug icon meaning it was fully charged? The battery icon was replaced with a little plug icon, is what I was trying to say. That's when it froze the first time.
The second time, a couple nights ago, I plugged in the battery about an hour into the show. It started scrolling the battery icon as if it was charging then it locked up within two songs of being plugged in. This time I used my homemade Altoids tin double AA charger. Which has worked flawlessly with the MTI. The battery indicator was full but it had locked up.
I also use a retractable usb cable (phillips brand?) and it has never failed either. I probably just have to send it in and hope I get some results from M-Audio. I think it's too late to return to the place of purchase but still covered by warranty through M-Audio......I think! Have to check on that.
Thanks folks! +T's around. ;D
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There is one firmware beta that came out 1.0.6
Doesn't say it addresses any other lockup issues, but may be worth trying. It's here:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=904
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^^^Thanks for the info and replies. I may just have a lemon. Which is okay, I'll just have to send it in.
I have the latest firmware 1.0.4, which is actually the only release available on M-Audio's page. The first time it locked on me at the Black Crowes/DMB I had the external Macally battery plugged in. It looked like it was charging with the battery indicator scrolling. Then it had the little plug icon meaning it was fully charged? The battery icon was replaced with a little plug icon, is what I was trying to say. That's when it froze the first time.
The second time, a couple nights ago, I plugged in the battery about an hour into the show. It started scrolling the battery icon as if it was charging then it locked up within two songs of being plugged in. This time I used my homemade Altoids tin double AA charger. Which has worked flawlessly with the MTI. The battery indicator was full but it had locked up.
I also use a retractable usb cable (phillips brand?) and it has never failed either. I probably just have to send it in and hope I get some results from M-Audio. I think it's too late to return to the place of purchase but still covered by warranty through M-Audio......I think! Have to check on that.
Thanks folks! +T's around. ;D
When you see the little plug icon, yes, this means the unit is fully charged. It is in essence saying it is getting the current from the wall, but because we adapt batteries for external power, the deck assumes it is drawing power from the wall which in fact is any external power source. The scrolling icon is exactly as you say, the unit is charging the battery, and if recording, it is also powering the battery and you are NOT using an external battery,at that point the icon does not scroll, but shows some kind of not especially accurate idea of how much power is left by how full the little square box (icon) is.. And again if you are using an external source and are recording, it will scroll as the external power source is recharging the deck as well as powering it.
What I have found on the MT 1 is that if I charge the unit while it is plugged in but not turned on, at some point that scrolling icon freezes. I think the unit is largely charged, but not fully charged. But if I power up the unit, it will charge fully and I will get the little wall plug icon. Since I always use an external battery, I don't worry about the battery being fully charged or not, and in my opinion the battery is the weak link on the unit, but I offer the above as a longtime MT user in the hopes it is helpful to others.
And lastly this assumes a good strong external power source. In a situation where the external power source runs out, then the internal battery is called upon. And likely, although I cannot say for sure, when the external power source is weak or inadequate, the draw will be from both the internal and external batteries together and on into just the internal source. I think having a strong external source is very critical. I have and occasionaly use an external source that holds 4 aa batteries. I like it too except for the expense of the batteries. I would never use rechargables as they are only 1.2 volts, nor would I use anything with less than 4 batteries even if it puts out 5 volts, as I don't think it has enough power. The MT1 for sure really likes a good strong power source. I assume this is true for the MT2 too.
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There is one firmware beta that came out 1.0.6
Doesn't say it addresses any other lockup issues, but may be worth trying. It's here:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=904
Wow - that beta version was way back in April of this year - I wonder why they haven't moved on from there?
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There is one firmware beta that came out 1.0.6
Doesn't say it addresses any other lockup issues, but may be worth trying. It's here:
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.drivers&f=904
Might solve the lockup problems after recording as the Release Notes mention pasted below. Maybe also during recording???
That's the question being asked.
My external powering experience is mostly with MT1 model. Rarely did plugging in/out external power make any difference to what the deck was already doing, but on just a fewunrepeatable occasions the deck (as I remember) shut down even with a fully charged internal battery.
Maybe MT2 also 'locks-up' in addition to sometimes shutting down?
Release Notes:
This readme covers MicroTrack II Firmware v1.0.6 BETA.
Several issues reported from the field have been fixed - THANK YOU to those who cooperated on uncovering these issues. Users should be aware that this is a BETA release and it is therefore possible that bugs may still be present in this release. Please continue to check back at the M-Audio website (www.m-audio.com) for upcoming firmware releases.
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Release Notes:
- Dialog box "Reading media" now displayed during initial power-on when inserted media containing large mp3 format files cause time delay in boot process.
- Dialog box "Reading media" now displayed if the unit is handling (ff, r/w, initial playback) large mp3 format files and a time delay is necessary before the requested operation is carried out.
- Record timeline fixed in s/pdif mode.
- DMA on/off** can be toggled within > System Menu > to accommodate cards that do not support DMA
- Updated German "About" Screen
- Made modification for improving the accuracy of marker placement.
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** Leaving the DMA setting at 'on' will yield proper results with most types of CF and Microdrive media. However, some media types may encounter issues and will benefit from changing the DMA setting. The DMA setting does not change the speed or quality of recordings, and only should need to be toggled if experiencing problems, such as unit lock-up after recording.
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I opened a service request with M-Audio and they told me to upgrade to that beta update 1.0.6, or whatever it is. I'll try that and run a home test to see how it does. Probably not till this weekend though.
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I think someone pointed it out earlier, but does seem weird that the last firmware which is from several months ago is still at beta level. Shouldn't it have had enough testing time by now to move beyond beta? Maybe the M-Audio folks aren't too concerned or involved at this stage. Mine is working well enough to meet my needs, although I am not out taping nearly as often as I'd like. Perhaps in time I'll have different thoughts. I assume once the device is stable and all the bugs are out of the closet then there won't be any need for firmware updates.