Starting a new thread as the old one has reached 25 pages. Looks like Guy Sonic tested the noise floor on the D50 and it is lower than the R09.
PT I - http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92069.0.html
Did Guy Sonic post that info on the test anywhere? It does sound very clean to me. The headphone amp is mighty nice and clean as well. I was very impressed with that while running at the C Jam.
Quote from: shaggy on December 20, 2007, 10:54:18 PM
Starting a new thread as the old one has reached 25 pages. Looks like Guy Sonic tested the noise floor on the D50 and it is lower than the R09.
Good news. Now to see if we can hack the mics off...
Here's another comparison: D50, R-1, and R09. At first glance, R09 is still tiny as all get-out. Also, if you hack the mics off of the D50, the D50 and the R-1 are the exact length.
Really like the built quality of the D50. Definitely a throwback to the old days of classic Sony engineering.
But the D50 is also the only one with a 4Gb internal HD as well as flash of the 3. I agree on the build quality. Makes my Hi-MDs from Sony feel cheap and frail.
+T on the comparison pictures.
Quote from: mrsoul on December 21, 2007, 12:54:20 PM
But the D50 is also the only one with a 4Gb internal HD as well as flash of the 3. I agree on the build quality. Makes my Hi-MDs from Sony feel cheap and frail.
+T on the comparison pictures.
Not so. The D50
does not have a HD. It has built-in flash. In addition, all three items record to flash, but under their own separate form:
D50 - Memory Stick
R-1 - Compact Flash
R09 - Secure Digital
+T
Quote from: spyder9 on December 21, 2007, 01:08:02 PM
Quote from: mrsoul on December 21, 2007, 12:54:20 PM
But the D50 is also the only one with a 4Gb internal HD as well as flash of the 3. I agree on the build quality. Makes my Hi-MDs from Sony feel cheap and frail.
+T on the comparison pictures.
Not so. The D50 does not have a HD. It has built-in flash. In addition, all three items record to flash, but under their own separate form:
D50 - Memory Stick
R-1 - Compact Flash
R09 - Secure Digital
+T
+T for the photos. Can't wait to hear some head to head clips to compare the A2D of the D50 to the R-09. I still find he A2D on the R-09 lacks bass and "open" feel of my old PCM-M1...
QuoteNot so. The D50 does not have a HD. It has built-in flash. In addition, all three items record to flash, but under their own separate form:
D50 - Memory Stick
R-1 - Compact Flash
R09 - Secure Digital
+T
Thank you for pointing that out.
All solid state 4Gb flash drive internally on the D50. Well, I guess I meant to write "and note that the D50 is the only one with an internal 4Gb flash memory"
;D
Here's some info from wikipedia on solid state that I found interesting....
Solid State
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_state_disk)
So, it is a flash drive, not a solid state drive, in the D50...
>>>Unlike solid state drives, flash drives do not generally require backup battery systems.
Well, finally I was able to get this posted. Yeah, I'm the newbie that customized the Pelican 1040 case that someone on another board best described as "fugly" ::) (is that a contraction of the two words I think it is?) eh, it works for me. Anyway, as previously posted in another thread, I wanted to do a comparison between the built in mics and a Sony ECM-MS957. I really liked my R-09 mics and could not get the 957 to sound good with the Edriol unit. Then I got the D50. I monitored and recorded both mics through some 7506 headphones. At first listen, the built in mics are sensative, detailed and well...useable. Then I plugged in a Sony ECM-MS957, the D50 menu automatically prompts you to choose plug 'n power, yes or no. I chose no as the 957 has a battery. What I hear is no more noise than the built in mics which in comparison to the handheld come off rather strident and etched, detailed to a fault, like they're jumping up and down saying "HEY YOU, LISTEN TO ME!" The 957 on the other hand, to my ear, is quite detailed yet warm sounding, like a nice large diaphragm condenser. Quite a shock to me as I had no luck whatsoever getting it to work well with the R-09, the internal mics always bettered it. Go figure.
Just my view. Here's the sample FLAC'd http://www.mediafire.com/?0so9zgyjgmz
I got my D50 yesterday (Christmas present!) and I think it's very nice. One thing I noticed though is that the little plastic door over the MemoryStick slot is quite loose. It makes a loud noise if you touch it while recording and hand-holding the unit. A bit of tape should solve the problem, but it seems like a design oversight to me. One question for those of you who already have a D50: does having a MemoryStick installed solve this issue by keeping the plastic door from rattling?
I haven't noticed the door being too loose. A little flimsy plastic but not snug. I do keep the 4Gb card in the slot so that might be the difference.
Quote from: mrsoul on December 26, 2007, 11:39:11 AM
I haven't noticed the door being too loose. A little flimsy plastic but not snug. I do keep the 4Gb card in the slot so that might be the difference.
Mrsoul, thanks--it seems like the door must contact the MemoryStick and be kept from rattling in that way. Now I'll have another reason to add memory.
I did some testing with and without the card, I really didn't notice much difference The door does NOT seal 100% and touching it does give noise but just about any movement when holding and using the internal mics will do the same. It seems sturdy enough and definitely more than some of the USB flaps Sony put on some of their MDs/HiMDs.
So, I didn't notice any difference in the stability of the door with or without the card in place.
Didn't want you to get the wrong impression from my post earlier.
Quote from: mrsoul on December 26, 2007, 02:55:56 PM
So, I didn't notice any difference in the stability of the door with or without the card in place.
Didn't want you to get the wrong impression from my post earlier.
OK, thanks for the follow-up. Maybe the door on mine is especially loose. I'll have to get hold of a MemoryStick to test whether it helps any on mine. Meanwhile, a 3/4" piece of blue painter's masking tape is keeping it from rattling.
Mine is loose too. I talked to Sony about this and they cautioned warranty may be compromised using regular blue painters tape. However they added, "We have taken note want our customers to know we use this feedback to continually improve and refine our audio products" coming in February, Sony accessory; PCM-PT, Sony BluPro-Painters Tape unfortunately it's only available from Sony. Go figure.
Quote from: BruPri on December 26, 2007, 06:58:11 PM
Mine is loose too. I talked to Sony about this and they cautioned warranty may be compromised using regular blue painters tape. However they added, "We have taken note want our customers to know we use this feedback to continually improve and refine our audio products" coming in February, Sony accessory; PCM-PT, Sony BluPro-Painters Tape unfortunately it's only available from Sony. Go figure.
Try gaffer's tape. Very strong. Leaves no residue. Easy to remove. ^-^
Quote from: BruPri on December 26, 2007, 06:58:11 PM
Mine is loose too. I talked to Sony about this and they cautioned warranty may be compromised using regular blue painters tape. However they added, "We have taken note want our customers to know we use this feedback to continually improve and refine our audio products" coming in February, Sony accessory; PCM-PT, Sony BluPro-Painters Tape unfortunately it's only available from Sony. Go figure.
Does the card slot cap flap in the wind? Like I wrote, mine is not 100% solidly closed but it doesn't open even if I shake the recorder. I would only use gaffer's tape like spyder9 wrote. Residue ain't purty.
Quote from: BruPri on December 26, 2007, 06:58:11 PM
Mine is loose too. I talked to Sony about this and they cautioned warranty may be compromised using regular blue painters tape. However they added, "We have taken note want our customers to know we use this feedback to continually improve and refine our audio products" coming in February, Sony accessory; PCM-PT, Sony BluPro-Painters Tape unfortunately it's only available from Sony. Go figure.
Heh
+t
Quote from: mrsoul on December 26, 2007, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: BruPri on December 26, 2007, 06:58:11 PM
...coming in February, Sony accessory; PCM-PT, Sony BluPro-Painters Tape
Does the card slot cap flap in the wind? I would only use gaffer's tape like spyder9 wrote. Residue ain't purty.
Thanks for the feedback guys. The little door doesn't open up on its own, it just rattles back and forth a millimeter or two if you touch it or move the recorder in certain ways. I'll have to get some gaffer's tape one of these days because I definately don't want residue, although the painter's tape seems pretty good about not leaving any. Maybe Sony will come out with an improved door design that can be retrofitted.
What's unity on the D50? 6? 7?
Anyone tried the remote?
I've been baffled by the lack of remotes on the MT and R-09 etc and wonder how MD people have gotten by after switching and losing the remote for stealthing. My MD remote has been crucial for me. The remote alone has made me consider this as an MD replacement.
and generally..is this the kick ass machine everyone was hoping it would be? I got seriously excited when
Sony announced it- but I've yet to see anyone really appear stoked by owning one..am I missing something here?
Quote from: ercoa on December 29, 2007, 03:47:47 AM
Anyone tried the remote?
I've been baffled by the lack of remotes on the MT and R-09 etc and wonder how MD people have gotten by after switching and losing the remote for stealthing. My MD remote has been crucial for me. The remote alone has made me consider this as an MD replacement.
and generally..is this the kick ass machine everyone was hoping it would be? I got seriously excited when
Sony announced it- but I've yet to see anyone really appear stoked by owning one..am I missing something here?
As a former and present owner of many MDs, I say the remote is not necessary at this point. The recording level dial will change even with the hold function active. I've been watching the prices and they will have to drop some before I make that jump since it's not a big necessity. It's a big necessity for MDs because the buttons are so small and my fingers are too big. The remote on the MDs has saved my recordings many times.
How much more stoked could I be about this machine? I personally have posted 30 or so times about it. To me, this is the mac daddy of recorders. It has the internals for quick snapshots of my kids playing music or at the local cafe, it takes optical if I ever upgrade my preamp, is built like a tank, takes AA batteries, has a killa headphone amp, optical line out, lighted display, up to 24/96 recording and tons of memory options. I couldn't be more pleased, it's what made me finally take the step up from MDs.
:realhappy: I :coolguy: AM :realhappy: REALLY :coolguy: STOKED :realhappy:
Ran it last night. Very impressed so far. Easy to use. No issues to report. I have only listened through my earphones, but sounds nice and quiet. I'll know more once I get the recording on the workbench this week.
Unity seems to be around 4 - 4.5, based on in-the-field, non-scientific, guess work.
the thread seems to continue here
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96418.msg1284932.html#msg1284932
(a couple of post above)
I just posted a simple comp.
lol good to know, mrsoul! very glad you're pleased.
I see your point about the remote- but i actually do need it, and not because of small buttons on an md- I don't want to touch the recorder, and I do want to pause/record multiple times during an outing, and i require stealth. So, either I record everything or I use a remote..
According to the review Mark Nelson posted yesterday he really seems to like the Sony PCM-D50:
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2008/01/10/sony-pcm-d50-recorder-review.html?page=1 (http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2008/01/10/sony-pcm-d50-recorder-review.html?page=1)
T+ Very cool review. Anybody else used the limiter? I might have to tinker with that some as I have ignored it for the most part. I'm still very pleased with PCM-D50. I hope to use the external mic pre soon and compared to the internals at a live pub show. Enjoy your weekend.
Anyone thought about checking if the internal memory can be upgraded? It looks as if it is difficult to check what media is used inside because the recorder is sealed to well.
I've been finding that the mini-plug of my new headphones (Sony MDR-V6) are kind of stiff plugging and unplugging into the D50. Today I noticed that little scratches/grooves are being left in the metal of the plug. Has anyone else had this problem? Otherwise I'm very happy so far with this recorder.
I recorded with the SBM turned on. Definitely made my recording more shiny in the mids and highs than I wanted. I suggest leaving it off like Mark Nelson recommends.
I've read straight through all the posts on these two threads and Brad Linder's review, O'Reilly site etc.
Linder notes that Graham Riches reports a comparison of The Marantz 620, Fostex FR2LE, PCM-D50 and Zoom H4 puts the Sony down third on the list with only a 4.5/10 score for external mics. (10/10 for the FR2LE)
http://www.bradlinder.net
He was using the Rode NTG-2 shotgun condenser to test.
I want a recorder that will work well with EV-635/RE-50 and Sennheiser ME66/K6. I've got a Zoom H2 and that's just not cutting it for use with external mics.
Anyone able to test those mics or have an opinion about whether this may be specific to the Rode NTG-2? Linder gives the Sony good marks with his dynamic RE-50.
Quote from: WiFiJeff on December 17, 2007, 03:04:59 PM
I just got in my PCM D50, and immediately tried the digital-in to see what data points I could add to this confused picture. I fed it with a 24/96 signal from a Core Sound Mic2496 optical out. The D50 read 48/24 but the second hand was racing, and sure enough on playback I heard my test speech played back at 1/2 speed (and down an octave, of course). I have not yet tried editing the wave header, but my guess is that I will have an okay 24/96 recording. This is a kludgy work-around for something that should function correctly out of the box.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I'd be very interested to know how you feel the D50 compares to the D1. Are the mics and pre's a whole lot better on the D1? I have an opportunity to buy a D1 at a discounted price ($1200.00) and wonder if it's worth it over the $500 D50.
Thanks,
Phil
Quote from: spyder9 on January 11, 2008, 11:47:09 PM
I recorded with the SBM turned on. Definitely made my recording more shiny in the mids and highs than I wanted. I suggest leaving it off like Mark Nelson recommends.
:hmmm:
I'm not sure he suggest turning it off. I recorded with it and found it pretty good but haven't done any comps to be able to say one way or the other yet.
>>>>>>>>
Got a Map?
The D50 shares something called Super Bit Mapping (SBM) with its more expensive sibling. Here's the scoop: when you select 16-bit recording, the D50 records at 20-bit resolution in order to increase the dynamic range. Normally, the extra four bits are discarded.
Sony PCM-D50 Side Panels
The side-mounted analog input and output jacks also work with mini-TOSLINK digital optical cables.
Engaging SBM recodes the data to squeeze 20 bits of information into a 16-bit word. The idea is to use a higher bit rate to reduce quantization noise and then employ noise shaping to move any grunge away from frequencies we can hear. To test this, I recorded two short clips of my guitar at 16/44.1 — one without SBM, one with. To my ears, there is a difference: the SBM track is more detailed and has less grit.
Here's an uncompressed WAV file so you can hear it for yourself. Pay attention as the guitar trails off into silence — it's smooth as silk.
* Acoustic Guitar with SBM (7.3MB WAV)
Super Bit Mapping is a great addition to the D50, but it makes one wonder: why not use it for all 16-bit files? According to Sony, it's best to turn SBM off if you'll be editing the recording in your computer. The manual doesn't explicitly state why, but it stands to reason that reprocessing the processed signal could create unwelcome artifacts as the computer wrestles with the complex math, accumulating rounding errors. SBM is a shaped dithering process, and digital gurus like Bob Katz (who is very good at math) assert it is best to not dither at each stage, but to wait until the file is ready to be mastered. In practical terms, though, I doubt most folks could hear the difference caused by this extra step.
Super Bit Mapping is disabled when you select 24-bit recording.
>>>>>
I should also state that 24bit ROCKS!!! ;D
And with 8Gb of memory, 24bit is the only way to go. I have been listening to 24bit WMA Pro 5.1 with my Creative Soundblaster Audigy setup of my New Year's show and it sounds very shweet. 16bit with SBM is not something I will be doing much anyways. 24/44.1 seems like the only logical way for me. 24/48 seems like too much trouble...
Has anyone measured the microphone plug in power (2v, 3v, 9v, etc.)?
- Mike
Quote from: mrsoul on January 12, 2008, 08:51:27 PM
I should also state that 24bit ROCKS!!! ;D
And with 8Gb of memory, 24bit is the only way to go. I have been listening to 24bit WMA Pro 5.1 with my Creative Soundblaster Audigy setup of my New Year's show and it sounds very shweet. 16bit with SBM is not something I will be doing much anyways. 24/44.1 seems like the only logical way for me. 24/48 seems like too much trouble...
yea, i'ld rather pay less and not have SBM in it, then it would cost like $399
I just put my D50 in the yard sale if anyone's interested...
It's in like-new condition. I am really sold on it, but got a great opportunity at buying a sound devices recorder...so this needs to go for now. I'm asking $425 for it.
If anyone needs one, please help me out instead of buying new.
thanks all.
/james
does anyone know if there's been any recent update that ensures 24/96 digital input will work flawlessly?
I ran the internal mics last night with limiter and bass roll-off for Victor Wooten at the Handlebar in Greenville. I got in late during the first tune and didn't have the energy to go through a fast setup in the dark. So, I decided to give the internals a run. I am impressed, really. I will be considering running these again for some shows. You can't beat the setup. I sat it on the soundboard with the XY config and let'er rip. Limiter worked beautifully. I ran 24/44.1 and it turned out fantastic. I wasn't expecting it to be nearly as good. Just my .02 but thought I would share. I will be putting some samples online soon. See ya!
Victor "Victa" Wooten samples: (http://mrsoulmusic.info/victa2008-02-13/)
24/44.1, limiter ON, Attenuator ON, Bass Roll-off ON (75Hz), INTERNAL Mics X/Y, sitting on the front of soundboard, center at 6 1/2 feet up
Quote from: mrsoul on February 16, 2008, 09:44:23 AM
Victor "Victa" Wooten samples: (http://mrsoulmusic.info/victa2008-02-13/)
24/44.1, limiter ON, Attenuator ON, Bass Roll-off ON, INTERNAL Mics X/Y, sitting on the front of soundboard
Nice recording--thanks. How high did you have the D50? I assume you had the mics at 90 degrees XY rather than 120 or somewhere inbetween? Didn't notice the limiter kicking in anywhere.
what level was the bass roleoff on? 75hz or 150hz? :)
The mics were XY at about 6 1/2 feet up, dead center on the front of the soundboard. LCF set to 75Hz. I may post another tune today. I really think it turned out very enjoyable and given all I had to do to setup, the ratio of energy in setup to results is very low to high.
Quote from: mrsoul on February 17, 2008, 07:02:36 AM
The mics were XY at about 6 1/2 feet up, dead center on the front of the soundboard. LCF set to 75Hz.
How big is this place and how far back were you?
+T for the samples....really appreciate the effort
Quote from: shaggy on February 17, 2008, 09:32:33 AM
Quote from: mrsoul on February 17, 2008, 07:02:36 AM
The mics were XY at about 6 1/2 feet up, dead center on the front of the soundboard. LCF set to 75Hz.
How big is this place and how far back were you?
+T for the samples....really appreciate the effort
This (http://www.handlebar-online.com/photos/050507/050507-01.jpg) gives you a good idea of the size. This photo is from the loft area which is behind the soundboard
I also added 2 more tracks to check out in mp3 format today. Enjoy, I am!
Victa mp3z from PCM-D50 internal mics (http://mrsoulmusic.info/victa2008-02-13/)
Definitely pretty good for the amount of effort you made. There is some break up on the bass thumping in the middle of track 1 and the image is a bit narrow (XY arrangement, methinks). The limiter you used is the limiter that records an alternative track -20dB lower, am I right? Does it then piece everything together (from the old) with the peak on the -20dB track as being the new '0dB'? I am still confused on how it works.
Still wondering if anyone has used it with a UA-5 putting out 24/48 or 24/96 optical signal.
Getting one of these with my state refund. I see B&H has them for $470 and free shipping. Any other retailer beating that price?
<edit>
Now I found it cheaper, but never dealt with this retailer before. Anyone have experience with them?
http://www.djdeals.com/sonyPCMD50.htm ($457 free shipping)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ has it for $500 w/free shipping, a free set of Sony MDR-7502 headphones (a $45 value) and a 45 day return policy.
The site also has consumer reviews, where one very positive review for the PCM-D50 is titled "I wanna wake up next to it and buy it pancakes!"
Regarding DJDeals.com...they're a bit scary. Here's a recent customer's comment from Bizrate.com:
"Just unsatisfied with policy of no returns, even if shipment has not been opened on some products (headphones, etc.). Not very flexible on that policy."
And another:
"A bit more care should be given to packaging. One air-pillow provides no additional safety if the product still bounces around inside the shipping box."
Thanks seabrook for your thoughts. I'll stay away from DJdeals. Definitely will still buy from any place that has free shipping and + reviews.
Quote from: Belexes on February 18, 2008, 08:15:22 AM
Thanks seabrook for your thoughts. I'll stay away from DJdeals. Definitely will still buy from any place that has free shipping and + reviews.
I have dealt with Musician's Friend many times and I got my PCM-D50 from them. Great customer service, fast shipping and great prices. Couldn't ask for anything better. Just my .02 of course.
After much pondering, I think I've landed on the D50 as my next recorder.
I haven't read much to put me off here or on the 'in the field' thread - so can anyone give me any really good reasons for avoiding this machine?
Also, is the line-in capable of taking an unattenuated +4dB signal or not? Not a deal-breaker, obviously, but nice to have.
Any advice is much appreciated; I'm hoping my next recorder will last me a good while so I'd like the absolute minimum of nasty surprises after handing over my money...
Quote from: yousef on February 22, 2008, 07:19:19 AM
Also, is the line-in capable of taking an unattenuated +4dB signal or not?
From the Sony website:
"Analog input - Input impedance: 40k ohms, rated input level: 2.0V, minimum input level: 450 mV"
I think that means it will do what you want. Maybe someone more technically qualified can chime in.
Quote from: Outrageous on February 22, 2008, 12:25:04 PM
From the Sony website:
"Analog input - Input impedance: 40k ohms, rated input level: 2.0V, minimum input level: 450 mV"
I think that means it will do what you want. Maybe someone more technically qualified can chime in.
Ta for that. Like I say, it's not of huge importance to me but it's nice to have.
I'm intrigued that someone thought my question objectionable enough to dock me a ticket... There's some funny people about ;)
buydig.com
$449 free headphones free shipping got mine there ask for abe.
Quote from: yousef on February 22, 2008, 07:19:19 AM
After much pondering, I think I've landed on the D50 as my next recorder.
I haven't read much to put me off here or on the 'in the field' thread - so can anyone give me any really good reasons for avoiding this machine?
Also, is the line-in capable of taking an unattenuated +4dB signal or not? Not a deal-breaker, obviously, but nice to have.
Any advice is much appreciated; I'm hoping my next recorder will last me a good while so I'd like the absolute minimum of nasty surprises after handing over my money...
Bench testing done here on D50 shows this deck handles a whopping +24 dBu LINE input! On all inputs, if having to turn down level adjust knob
below 2.5 to avoid VU above 0 dB,
only then is input of this deck experiencing overload.
Quote from: guysonic on February 24, 2008, 02:08:12 PM
Bench testing done here on D50 shows this deck handles a whopping +24 dBu LINE input!
Excellent! Many thanks for that, I think that this really is the one for me...
Dumb question coming that I should probably already know...
When running line in (analog, not optical) should I have the D50 set to 0 or -20db? I'm guessing -20db. Will it really affect the sound much one way or the other? Running at 0db just adds more gain and potentially more hiss/internal noises right?
I love this new recorder. This is the perfect stealth recorder and exactly what I've been waiting on for years. I'll be posting some sample files of a recent comparison I did of the a/d convertor in the D50 vs. the a/d in the Mytek 192. After the first few listens, I'm very impressed with the a/d convertor in the D50 at 24/48.
Quote from: brianp on March 13, 2008, 04:33:12 PM
Dumb question coming that I should probably already know...
When running line in (analog, not optical) should I have the D50 set to 0 or -20db? I'm guessing -20db. Will it really affect the sound much one way or the other? Running at 0db just adds more gain and potentially more hiss/internal noises right?
I love this new recorder. This is the perfect stealth recorder and exactly what I've been waiting on for years. I'll be posting some sample files of a recent comparison I did of the a/d convertor in the D50 vs. the a/d in the Mytek 192. After the first few listens, I'm very impressed with the a/d convertor in the D50 at 24/48.
If like most Sony decks, input sensitivity switch works only for MIC input mode with no effect working line in.
Most D50 owners are expressing liking this deck for having excellent sound/build quality and seems a good value considering the asking price.
I think with some tweaks the internal mics could catch a better sound. The case is so near to the mics it will bounce the sound back into. Try to glue some felt in between, left and right.
It prevents from reflecting sound parts. The felt left and right can stay out in the air a bit.
Also the 120 Degree seeting can sound better by just go back an tiny bit to the middle.
When I contacted Prism about the 24 bit status flag, they told me that they would update the chip that deals with the output subcode in the AD2 to send the flag. Yesterday, I got the revised chip in the mail! I'll install it and report back.....
Joe P.
Can anyone comment if there is a bass roll off engaged all the time? The R-09 definitely has a rolloff all the time (even though you can turn one on or off in the menus, there's one there all the time.) The rolloff on the R-09 is something that bugs me.
I work for a heatlhcare software company (I'm a RN) and I got a Symbol PPT8800 handheld this week for a new product we are working on. It came with a slim pleather case. I was looking at it and thought "that looks like the same shape as my PCM-D50". Sure enough, fits great. Even gives enough room on the side top to get to the mic or line inputs. Might be a good way to use in the field and still have the internals exposed (if that's what you want). I froogled the cases for around $10. Just thought I would share. I still very much love my Zing pouch that I got from B&H but others might be interested in this alternative.
I just bought one of these to replace my 9-year old sony MZ-R50, and wow. Bought it to use with some external mics, but I'm also very impressed with the quality of the internal mics on this thing. I've used it to record lectures, a live show in a bar, and several instances of acoustic musicians playing unamplified (the reason I bought it). It sounds pretty good:
Too-late-at-night jam with three mandolins (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/East%20Tennessee%20Blues.mp3) and two guitars and a mandolin (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/Rich%20Gal.mp3). Mics in the wide pattern, recorder seated on a table in between the three of us, maybe 3 feet from each player. I think it may have clipped, but I was playing so couldn't adjust the levels mid-tune.
Rehearsal with Mandocello, mandolin, and octave mandolin (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/Jeff%20Sturgeon.mp3). Mics in the wide pattern, about 10 feet away from the players. Good room; I think I got the placement right on this one, too.
A friend's bluegrass band playing in bar over a crappy sound system (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/Too%20Late%20Now.mp3) (the buzz you hear is from the beer cooler). It's not a bad recording, it's bad live sound. ::) Internal mics in X/Y pattern, pointed at one of the PA speakers from about 15 feet.
Quote from: mrsoul on March 15, 2008, 01:11:34 PM
I work for a heatlhcare software company (I'm a RN) and I got a Symbol PPT8800 handheld this week for a new product we are working on. It came with a slim pleather case. I was looking at it and thought "that looks like the same shape as my PCM-D50".
Hahaha. Isn't it funny the way the mind works.
8)
Quote from: wayfaringstranger on April 23, 2008, 12:19:57 AM
I just bought one of these to replace my 9-year old sony MZ-R50, and wow. Bought it to use with some external mics, but I'm also very impressed with the quality of the internal mics on this thing. I've used it to record lectures, a live show in a bar, and several instances of acoustic musicians playing unamplified (the reason I bought it). It sounds pretty good:
Too-late-at-night jam with three mandolins (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/East%20Tennessee%20Blues.mp3) and two guitars and a mandolin (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/Rich%20Gal.mp3). Mics in the wide pattern, recorder seated on a table in between the three of us, maybe 3 feet from each player. I think it may have clipped, but I was playing so couldn't adjust the levels mid-tune.
Rehearsal with Mandocello, mandolin, and octave mandolin (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/Jeff%20Sturgeon.mp3). Mics in the wide pattern, about 10 feet away from the players. Good room; I think I got the placement right on this one, too.
A friend's bluegrass band playing in bar over a crappy sound system (http://wayfaringstranger.net/tunes/Too%20Late%20Now.mp3) (the buzz you hear is from the beer cooler). It's not a bad recording, it's bad live sound. ::) Internal mics in X/Y pattern, pointed at one of the PA speakers from about 15 feet.
Those sound good, but I don't get the sense that I'm really in the room. I think you need better mics for that.
Listen to a clip I've got at Soundman.com:
http://www.soundmann.com/2008-04-15-JamesThomasKent_clip.mp3
It is wacky folk (?) music, but you really sound like you're in the room (I think). This is a new omni mic I'm using, *directly* into minidisc (HiSP mode).
Richard
Quote from: illconditioned on April 23, 2008, 01:44:35 AM
Those sound good, but I don't get the sense that I'm really in the room. I think you need better mics for that.
[...]
This is a new omni mic I'm using, *directly* into minidisc (HiSP mode).
You'll get no argument from me on that one (except for the bluegrass band recording; I've been to and played that particular room a number of times, and I think it's probably in the listener's best interest *not* to get a sense of it).
I have a decent pair of omnis that do make better sounding recordings, and I'll use them when I'm making a recording that really matters. My point was just that for something quick-and-dirty or a recording where it's inconvenient to set up mics, the built-ins do pretty well. I was pleasantly surprised.
What were you using on the recording at the link? Sounds good.
Quote from: wayfaringstranger on April 23, 2008, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: illconditioned on April 23, 2008, 01:44:35 AM
Those sound good, but I don't get the sense that I'm really in the room. I think you need better mics for that.
[...]
This is a new omni mic I'm using, *directly* into minidisc (HiSP mode).
You'll get no argument from me on that one (except for the bluegrass band recording; I've been to and played that particular room a number of times, and I think it's probably in the listener's best interest *not* to get a sense of it).
I have a decent pair of omnis that do make better sounding recordings, and I'll use them when I'm making a recording that really matters. My point was just that for something quick-and-dirty or a recording where it's inconvenient to set up mics, the built-ins do pretty well. I was pleasantly surprised.
What were you using on the recording at the link? Sounds good.
I'm using Knowles Acoustics, model BT1759. This is a small omnidirectional mic.
Richard
Wayfaringstran, very nice playing, and I thought your recordings sounded good. The stereo separation at 120 degrees is greater than you'd get with head-worn omnis, but I still could imagine I was there when listening with headphones.
Here's another sample show with my internal mics using the X/Y config with 24/44.1 going. I dither'd in post using the Sony Sound Forge Audio app
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105543.0.html
Here a pic from the Mic PCM D-1 the PCM D-50 is maybe the same princip only different capsule. Its from the manual PCM D-1.
Just got mine from Wingfield today! It really is pretty intuitive, even for an old guy. I did a couple of experiments with the internal mics outside recording birds and cars going by to start with, I finally got around to setting it on a table and singing and playing my Martin into to it from about 3' away. Those mics are really pretty incredible for the money. I like what they do to the Martin better than my pair of SM81s in X/Y. The mics sound good on my voice too. I am going to have to play with a tripod or something to get the recorder higher up to pick up my voice more, but it sounds really good. This unit is WAY better than what I needed for a songwriting sketchpad. I am hoping I can actually capture some recordings of me with 1 or 2 other instruments going straight to stereo and then just burn the waves straight to CD.
If the mics in the D-1 are better than these, that truly is a great machine.
I love the simplicity of it, especially after 5 years of struggling with overdubbing, editing and mixing with a Pro Tools LE rig.
bilco
I finally got around to measuring the mic plug-in power voltage on the D50.
It looks like my D50 is providing 2.8v per channel with no load, and 0.5v under a 1K ohm load. Doesn't seem very impressive, I doubt this will be enough to power any stealth-type mics directly for loud shows. Probably will need to use a battery box or a Church ST-9100 preamp with our micro mics.
Has anyone attempted removing the built-in mics or creating some kind of slip-on cover for them? Out of the current digi recorders, this one would probably work best for me, but I just don't need those mics.
Quote from: AudBall on June 21, 2008, 02:39:46 PM
Has anyone attempted removing the built-in mics or creating some kind of slip-on cover for them? Out of the current digi recorders, this one would probably work best for me, but I just don't need those mics.
I don't know, it seems having the mics would be good for situations when you just want to "point and shoot". They do seem to sound pretty OK. Would probably be great for interviews, impromptu ambient recording, jam sessions, drum circles, recording your drunken neighbour hollaring at the top of voice keeping the entire campsite awake at a hippie festival...
Richard
Can this use MS Duo Pro sticks?
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 21, 2008, 10:37:56 PM
Can this use MS Duo Pro sticks?
Yes, that is what Stephanie Wingfield shipped with the kit I bought for mine, a 4 gig MS Duo Pro stick, says it is a Memory Stick Pro Duo Mark2, 4 GB/GO. MS-MT4G
Somewhere I have seen a thread of someone using larger than 4 gig successfully, not sure where that thread was though..
bilco
Does it have a seamless split at 2GB or a noticeable pause?
Someone who has recorded a large file will have to chime in. I am just getting started. I am going to record our band live next Friday night. That will be my first chance to see how it handles large files.
bilco
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 22, 2008, 03:09:10 AM
Does it have a seamless split at 2GB or a noticeable pause?
definitely seamless
Quote from: brianp on June 22, 2008, 04:01:44 PM
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 22, 2008, 03:09:10 AM
Does it have a seamless split at 2GB or a noticeable pause?
definitely seamless
Sweet! So far I have found about a dozen good reasons to buy one of these and no reasons not to.
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 21, 2008, 10:37:56 PM
Can this use MS Duo Pro sticks?
It will record without problems to MS Duo Pro (I have tested with 16bit on these at the Wanee festival) but it will sometimes tell me that I have unknown memory or something like that. Once I formatted the sticks, it's fine. Now, with the HG Duo, never any issues that require formatting, etc.
The internal should be fine for me. I have an extra 2GB stick I bought for my PSP so if I can use it also it would be good. One more question. Does the limiter work the same when recording a line in source as with mics? If I hooked it up to a soundboard and wanted to set the levels fairly high will it limit for me so I can walk away and not worry about clipping? If so this would work perfectly in my current setting of recording mostly church services. I could turn the gain up for the speakers at the start and the music in the middle wouldn't kill the recording. Then I could move away and film also.
I am almost 100% positive that the limiter does work for line input but you can download the manual here to check:
PCM-D50 Manual (http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/docs/manuals/pcm-d50.pdf)
I recorded some vocal/acoustic guitar tracks this morning and I could not be happier. My voice and fingers were not wide awake yet, but I wanted to record while the traffic noise was minimal and before the laundry fired up. I recorded at 24/96 in an untreated small bedroom and it is amazingly quiet, (other than one of my &^$#@* dogs barking on the other side of the door in the middle of a song....) and once I got it aimed at the correct angle, it got a good blend of my voice and the guitar. Small diaphragm condensors are not the most flattering mic in the world for vocals, but I think these sound pretty dang good and require absolutely no setup. After 5 years of fussing with mic placement, editing, EQ and mixing in Pro Tools LE DAWs, this is a Godsend. I am turning into a minimalist.
I am going to post an mp3 as soon as I render the wav file to mp3. Can we attach mp3s to posts here or do I just insert a link that points to somewhere else? I searched, but I am not finding anything.
Thanks,
bilco
Quote from: bilco on June 22, 2008, 01:26:47 AM
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 21, 2008, 10:37:56 PM
Can this use MS Duo Pro sticks?
Yes, that is what Stephanie Wingfield shipped with the kit I bought for mine, a 4 gig MS Duo Pro stick, says it is a Memory Stick Pro Duo Mark2, 4 GB/GO. MS-MT4G
Somewhere I have seen a thread of someone using larger than 4 gig successfully, not sure where that thread was though..
bilco
I have reported my experiences (mostly with the D1, which turns out to be fussier than the D50 about what it can use)
The D1 can use 4GB memory stick and pro duo with no problems at 24/96, I ran it for a year with no issues. But it can not see more than 4GB of an 8 or 16GB pro duo, though it seemed to record on the smaller part it reported as free okay. I will have to wait for the pro HG duo for larger capacities for the D1.
I have now twice used (but not in the field) a 16GB pro duo "Mark2" card on the D50, and it records fine, no glitches even if I divide the files on the fly while recording. I am still nervous about running it live this way, but in a pinch would certainly risk it based on testing at home.
Jeff
Has anyone used the XLR-1 for this unit?
Quote from: a-dub on June 24, 2008, 07:11:54 PM
Has anyone used the XLR-1 for this unit?
Yes, a German Guy called "trebogad".
His recordings can be found on www.dimeadozen.org .
Search for "D50" and you will find it there.
Quote from: detroitblues on February 22, 2008, 06:04:10 PM
buydig.com
$449 free headphones free shipping got mine there ask for abe.
It's gone up $20 since last Feb. which is of course to be expected and that's still a great deal with the no shipping (remote still included as well).
I was curious where others have been purchasing their D50s? I'd also like to support someone like Cascade as well as other companies that have been kind to the community.
TIA.
I'll order one in the next couple weeks from B&H Photo. It's $470 shipped UPS Ground. I know B&H is reliable and has an excellent return policy.
One more question. If you plug in a memory stick does it use that separately or add it to the total memory kind of like a RAID setting?
You have to choose which memory you are going to use in the menu. It will NOT switch over automatically to the other memory. Bummer, I know. But, you just have to keep an eye on your memory/time as you get close. It's a quick menu change, less than 30 seconds to do it.
Are there any windscreens that will fit onto it besides the dead rats? I'll be using it inside mostly so wind will not be a serious concern but some decent screens would be good.
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 29, 2008, 11:30:53 PM
Are there any windscreens that will fit onto it besides the dead rats? I'll be using it inside mostly so wind will not be a serious concern but some decent screens would be good.
Use this:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,102775.0.html
Sony sells one that looks very similar, but cost over twice as much.
nice. Thansk for the link. I am really excited about the quality of the D50 but the accessories are overpriced. $500 for the XLR adapter that is only a power supply and not a preamp and $50 for dead cat windscreen that is a "must have".
Someone needs to make a cheaper and possibly better XLR adapter just like someone did on the windscreens.
*paging people on this board that could help*
You lucky guys overseas in USA :).
Here in Europe the PCM-D50 costs 590 Euro which is 914$ !!! :o
It would be cheaper for me to import from the U.S. and pay customs duty etc. which makes additional 24% + shipping.
lets calculate:
PCM-D50 320€ = (496$ US price)
+20% tax +4% customs duty
--------------------------------
=>~400€
+ 35€ shipping
--------------------------------
makes total cost of 435€(674$)
--------------------------------
Still 155€ (240$) cheaper than the Euro price of 590€!
"Someone needs to make a cheaper and possibly better XLR adapter [than Sony's $500 model]"
Assuming your mics need 48V phantom power, try the ART Phantom II (~$65) or the Rolls PB224 (~$85). Both use 9V cells to provide 48V phantom power via XLR connectors.
If you're using the D50 or another recorder that uses a 1/8-inch minijack for mic input, you'll need a cable like the Hosa CYX401F, a one foot long cable with right angle 1/8-inch stereo miniplug on one end, and two female XLR connectors on the other.
If one foot of cable is too short to connect the battery box to the recorder, use the CYX-402F (2 feet long) or CYX405F (5 feet long).
Flintstone
I think the upside to the Sony XLR adapter is that is screws directly to the back of the unit and it probably is actually a good quality unit. Sony obviously put a lot of thought into the D50 so it's unlikely they'd sell an XLR P48 adapter that's the same price as the recorder if it wasn't good.
Sony designed the 48V phantom power unit for use with the PCM-D1, their $1800 recorder. Of course, it works with the D50 and any other recorder with a 1/8-inch mic input.
I will be using the PCM-D50 to record jazz big band sessions. Do people have any recommendations for which limiter settings to use? I set my levels to leave enough headroom during the sound check, but occasionally in performance the band will get excited and play louder during crescendos - so the issue is not transients such as cymbal or drum hits, but the whole ensemble sound peaking for a couple of notes.
Thanks.
Quote from: nolonemo on July 10, 2008, 01:50:01 PM
I will be using the PCM-D50 to record jazz big band sessions. Do people have any recommendations for which limiter settings to use? I set my levels to leave enough headroom during the sound check, but occasionally in performance the band will get excited and play louder during crescendos - so the issue is not transients such as cymbal or drum hits, but the whole ensemble sound peaking for a couple of notes.
Thanks.
Suggest best to NOT use the limiter for musical material as it can have undesirable affect.
Use instead 24bit depth initially adjusting recording
peaks at -12 dB VU max having lots of headroom to later amplify master recording in post edit to desired level without any audible liability.
Hi all,
I'm new to this site, taped a lot many years ago, starting with a Sony Walkman Pro, graduated to a Sony D5 with Nak 300's and went on to various Sony DATs with the Naks and Sonic Studios DSM-6P. Getting back into taping and I've decided to stick with Sony and get this deck. I have one question that hopefully somebody can answer. Does this deck need the Memory Stick Pro HG Duo (expensive) or the (much cheaper) Memory Stick Pro Duo? In other words, does it need a SanDisk Extreme III or will it work with the Extreme II?
Thanks for your assistance.
MS Pro Duo sticks work fine. I have an 8GB stick that I bought for my PSP. It comes up with an "Unknown Media" screen at startup but writes to the stick with no problems.
Quote from: stantheman1976 on August 24, 2008, 01:19:18 AM
MS Pro Duo sticks work fine. I have an 8GB stick that I bought for my PSP. It comes up with an "Unknown Media" screen at startup but writes to the stick with no problems.
Thanks much! I'd give you a ticket but as this is only my second post, I don't have any to offer. I ordered the deck from B&H tonight and plan on using it at the Delaware Valley Bluegrass Festival in Southern New Jersey next week. I'll probably just be plugging into a friend but I may see how it works with the built-in mics for a little bit. I'll have access to a DAT backup if I'm not satisfied.
I just picked up the Sandisk Ultra II from Newegg, $40 for a 4GB card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171351
I've only done a little bit of testing, but so far it seems to be working perfectly.
Quote from: frogger on August 24, 2008, 01:39:39 AM
Quote from: stantheman1976 on August 24, 2008, 01:19:18 AM
MS Pro Duo sticks work fine. I have an 8GB stick that I bought for my PSP. It comes up with an "Unknown Media" screen at startup but writes to the stick with no problems.
Thanks much! I'd give you a ticket but as this is only my second post, I don't have any to offer. I ordered the deck from B&H tonight and plan on using it at the Delaware Valley Bluegrass Festival in Southern New Jersey next week. I'll probably just be plugging into a friend but I may see how it works with the built-in mics for a little bit. I'll have access to a DAT backup if I'm not satisfied.
BTW you can directly power any DSM mic (without powering module) just by plugging into D50's mic input and turning on the mic powering feature.
If your older model DSM mic has hardwired battery module, then mic is powered regardless with AA cell inside the module, but if desiring a simpler setup, then have your mic refurbished with replacing the powering module with simple molded right-angle gold plated mini-plug so direct connection to the D50 is possible and you'd have the simplest two-piece configuration using the deck.
Quote from: Todd R on August 24, 2008, 10:31:17 AM
I just picked up the Sandisk Ultra II from Newegg, $40 for a 4GB card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171351
I've only done a little bit of testing, but so far it seems to be working perfectly.
Thanks, I just ordered 2 of them. I'll let you know next week how it all went.
Quote from: guysonic on August 24, 2008, 10:32:30 AM
BTW you can directly power any DSM mic (without powering module) just by plugging into D50's mic input and turning on the mic powering feature.
If your older model DSM mic has hardwired battery module, then mic is powered regardless with AA cell inside the module, but if desiring a simpler setup, then have your mic refurbished with replacing the powering module with simple molded right-angle gold plated mini-plug so direct connection to the D50 is possible and you'd have the simplest two-piece configuration using the deck.
Thanks. My older DSM mic does indeed have the hardwired powering module. The mic may have gone bad, I tried it a year or 2 ago (at some very loud shows) and I got a bunch of distortion. The mic gave me a decade or more of fantastic service and the battery may have been low but I'll have to try it at home recording from my stereo. If it works I might look into having it refurbished.
Thanks to everybody for sharing your knowledge.
Just recieved the Complete Service Manual from SONY. Chips are
Mikinput = ADA 4841 - 2YRZ-R7
Lineinput = ADA 8662 2ARZ-REEL
AD Chip = AK 5358 AET-EZ
Where'd you get the service manual?
Is if very big?
Did it take long to arrive?
I want one but I am moving across country soon and don't want it chasing me.
Thanks
Hello,
I just received mine today, but when I'm using it with an external microphone (AT-922, SoundProfessionnals binaural), I've got a ground noise.. I'm selecting the option "power on" when I plug the microphones, this should be ok..
Did somebody have this issue?
I think my unit might go back to the shop.. >:(
here's a link of a wav recorded when I plug my AT-822, I'm just moving it or the cable near the D50...
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jxnt0g
I've never heard of the AT922 -- got a link for it?
If you made a typo and it's the AT822, you shouldn't run the D50 with the mic power on option since the 822 since the 822 operates off an internal battery. Otherwise, I've got nothing. :-\
Oops my mistake, that's indeed the AT-822, and even with plugin power set to OFF I've got the background noise..
Quote from: JM Charcot on August 26, 2008, 03:13:20 PM
Oops my mistake, that's indeed the AT-822, and even with plugin power set to OFF I've got the background noise..
There's something wrong somewhere. I have use the AT-822 with the D50, and they play together very nicely. I do have to turn the gain up with the AT-822, 3 on the dial with the internals gives me the same levels as 4 on the dial with the AT-822 when recording. The self-noise with the AT-822 is lower than using the D50's internal mics even taking into account the higher gain required by the 822. BTW, I lost the connector cable that came with the mic and am using a replacement I got from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/160633-REG/Hosa_Technology_XVS_101F_Mini_Stereo_Male_to.html) but I don't think that should make a difference.
I'd try a different mic with the D50 and a different recorder with the 822 to see if you can isolate the problem. Good luck.
Quote from: headroom on August 26, 2008, 08:16:21 AM
Just recieved the Complete Service Manual from SONY. Chips are
Mikinput = ADA 4841 - 2YRZ-R7
Lineinput = ADA 8662 2ARZ-REEL
AD Chip = AK 5358 AET-EZ
Thanks for the info.
I looked up ADA4841, this might be a useful chip for modders too, it comes in TSSOP/MSSOP, ie., the smaller size surface mount. Might be interesting for R4 mods, for example.
So, do you have any more information, like a schematic? I'm interested how the regular and -20dB mic in are handled.
Richard
"Service Manual"
I have to make a dealer Account by Sony Switzerland and have to wait a month bevore I got the Service Manual, cost 50 $
And I can make an scan from that mik section will put it here later...
Quote from: Todd R on August 24, 2008, 10:31:17 AM
I just picked up the Sandisk Ultra II from Newegg, $40 for a 4GB card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171351
I've only done a little bit of testing, but so far it seems to be working perfectly.
Just checking in to say I also have this same card and so far so good. I bought it at Best Buy for around $60 earlier in the summer.
Quote from: nolonemo on August 26, 2008, 06:12:11 PM
Quote from: JM Charcot on August 26, 2008, 03:13:20 PM
Oops my mistake, that's indeed the AT-822, and even with plugin power set to OFF I've got the background noise..
There's something wrong somewhere. I have use the AT-822 with the D50, and they play together very nicely. I do have to turn the gain up with the AT-822, 3 on the dial with the internals gives me the same levels as 4 on the dial with the AT-822 when recording. The self-noise with the AT-822 is lower than using the D50's internal mics even taking into account the higher gain required by the 822. BTW, I lost the connector cable that came with the mic and am using a replacement I got from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/160633-REG/Hosa_Technology_XVS_101F_Mini_Stereo_Male_to.html) but I don't think that should make a difference.
I'd try a different mic with the D50 and a different recorder with the 822 to see if you can isolate the problem. Good luck.
I checked with my RH-10 hi-MD, no noise at all.. and with another microphone (Sound Professionnals binaural) in the D50 : there is still the ground noise.
That's definitely the D50 who's Dead On Arrival.. I'll ask for an exchange.
Kind regards,
JM.
My new pcm-d50 arrived (yay!!). Now, I'm looking at what I would need to get a digital signal from my buddy's Tascam DA-P1 to the Sony. My digital input is labeled optical, his is coax. Is there a cable I can use to go between the decks or do I need a converter? The digital cables for the coax look like an RCA. Mine would probably be the size of a stereo mini plug. Anybody have any knowledge of what I need?
Thanks.
Here's a list of SPDIF format converters
http://www.minidisc.org/part_CoaxOptical_Conversion.html
Note that they all require external power. They ship with
mains power "wall warts," but presunmably can be made to
work with an external battery.
Flintstone
Quote from: flintstone on August 27, 2008, 11:26:20 AM
Here's a list of SPDIF format converters
http://www.minidisc.org/part_CoaxOptical_Conversion.html
Flintstone
Thanks. It looks like I'll probably be getting an analog signal this weekend if I plug out of him but I'll be doing some investigating this once I get back.
Quote from: frogger on August 27, 2008, 12:44:26 PM
Quote from: flintstone on August 27, 2008, 11:26:20 AM
Here's a list of SPDIF format converters
http://www.minidisc.org/part_CoaxOptical_Conversion.html
Flintstone
Thanks. It looks like I'll probably be getting an analog signal this weekend if I plug out of him but I'll be doing some investigating this once I get back.
Check out the "Digital Power Pack - PP99" at Amazon (or wherever)
http://www.amazon.com/iConcepts-Digi-Power-Pack-PP99/dp/B0009EXVGC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1219886108&sr=8-2
I just recently put the money together for a 24 bit recorder with digital-in and I've been strongly leaning towards the PCM-D50 for awhile now.
I've been researching to no avail. Does the PCM-D50 have a clip setting where the LCD will light up if you go over 0dB? Just curious... I really like that about the iriver h120. I run a little more conservative these days but it's a really cool feature.
Are people pretty happy with the metering?
Clip and -12db (which I use to set levels on my preamp). I haven't had much problem since I usually go 24bit and just normalize if I ever need it but generally use the green -12db as my guide.
Quote from: mrsoul on September 29, 2008, 05:41:50 PM
Clip and -12db (which I use to set levels on my preamp). I haven't had much problem since I usually go 24bit and just normalize if I ever need it but generally use the green -12db as my guide.
That's a good point. I've read that running your levels to hot isn't as big of an issue with 24bit because there's really no need to.
+T
I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the PCM-D50. It's a tank and the battery life has been excellent. As stated before, it has optical input, line input, decent internals that can adjust to true XY or wide pattern (check my archive bookmarks below for at least 2 shows using the internals outside), great menu, 4Gb onboard flash memory, uses non-proprietary battery form (AA x4) and even is a solid mp3/wav music player if you want it to be. Did I mention the headphone amp and optical/line output? I have read others post about the HR09/R09 and others but for me, the PCM-D50 was and is worth the price. I got mine from Musician's Friend with the no interest deal for 12 months, of course that was before this economic meltdown. Good luck with your search!
Quote from: mrsoul on September 30, 2008, 10:48:43 AM
I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the PCM-D50. It's a tank and the battery life has been excellent. As stated before, it has optical input, line input, decent internals that can adjust to true XY or wide pattern (check my archive bookmarks below for at least 2 shows using the internals outside), great menu, 4Gb onboard flash memory, uses non-proprietary battery form (AA x4) and even is a solid mp3/wav music player if you want it to be. Did I mention the headphone amp and optical/line output? I have read others post about the HR09/R09 and others but for me, the PCM-D50 was and is worth the price. I got mine from Musician's Friend with the no interest deal for 12 months, of course that was before this economic meltdown. Good luck with your search!
Has anyone tested whether the optical digital output is active during recording and whether someone with another D50, or an H120, or a JB3 can get an optical digital patch during the show from a D50?
If I remember correctly, I went PC>optical out>D-50>optical out>Hi-MD when I first got the PCM-D50 but can try it again later tonight.
Quote from: empty on September 29, 2008, 05:38:51 PM
Are people pretty happy with the metering?
the meters are great on this unit, very detailed.
QuoteHas anyone tested whether the optical digital output is active during recording and whether someone with another D50, or an H120, or a JB3 can get an optical digital patch during the show from a D50?
Last night, I took the optical out from my Creative digital out>PCM-D50 optical input>Recording Active>Optical Out of PCM-D50>Sony Hi-MD recording. No problems and I get "Digital Recording" on the Sony Hi-MD. So, yes, if recording with Optical in on PCM-D50, it still passes an optical out.
Is it exactly the same signal? I have no way of testing this personally. Does it convert and then send out a different digital signal than what comes in? I don't know. Any way to test?
Thanks for the testing and the reporting Mr Soul! That's pretty interesting that we can give out optical digital patches.
I'm not too concerned whether the optical out is bit perfect or not, since I wouldn't use it myself for transfers or anything. Resampled or not, a digital patch would sound fine to anyone using this method to patch in.
im thinking about picking a d50 up but have a lingering question... what should i pair it with?
thinking about an external pre --- which ones could i use?
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 30, 2008, 01:02:47 PM
I think the upside to the Sony XLR adapter is that is screws directly to the back of the unit and it probably is actually a good quality unit. Sony obviously put a lot of thought into the D50 so it's unlikely they'd sell an XLR P48 adapter that's the same price as the recorder if it wasn't good.
the pro's of having an external pre are many, but for a streamilined, compact rig, would the xlr-1 be better. the point above is a very good one. does anyone have any pics of the d50 in action with the xlr adapter?
thanks for feedback and pics if anyone has them.
Quote from: spcyrfc on November 06, 2008, 02:04:14 AM
im thinking about picking a d50 up but have a lingering question... what should i pair it with?
thinking about an external pre --- which ones could i use?
Quote from: stantheman1976 on June 30, 2008, 01:02:47 PM
I think the upside to the Sony XLR adapter is that is screws directly to the back of the unit and it probably is actually a good quality unit. Sony obviously put a lot of thought into the D50 so it's unlikely they'd sell an XLR P48 adapter that's the same price as the recorder if it wasn't good.
the pro's of having an external pre are many, but for a streamilined, compact rig, would the xlr-1 be better. the point above is a very good one. does anyone have any pics of the d50 in action with the xlr adapter?
I don't think that anybody here has tested it with the XLR-1, but it seems like a quality unit. A small preamp under $500 that you could use is a used Sound Devices MP-2 / MixPre. I am sure there are others that can be stealthed. If you want something larger, you could use virtually anything; it is just a matter of price point and features.
The XLR-1 is a battery box, permitting you to use mics that need 48V phantom anad XLR connections. It's an excellent, but very expensive, way to solve this problem. It's definitely not a preamp, however.
The internal pre of the D50 is very good, arguably better than any other pocket-size recorder. If you plan to use an external preamp, and bypass the D50's preamp by recording line in, then you should consider purchasing a less expensive recorder like the Edirol R-09HR or Olympus LS-10 instead.
Preamp models I've used that would be a good match for a pocket-size recorder, both in performance and size, include the Sound Device MixPre, the previously mentioned Sound Devices MP-2 (now available only as used equipment), and the Aerco MP2. These models provide excellent sound, phantom power, and up to 66 dB gain.
If you don't need that much gain, then look at the Sonic Studios PA-24NJ. However, I'm not sure this model provides 48V phantom power. Somebody help me here!
An intriguing possibility is the Core Sound Mic2496 version 2. The Mic2496 has 60 dB of gain, and digital output. Among small recorders, the D50 has optical digital input (1/4-inch miniplug), and the M-Audio Microtrack II has an electrical digital input (RCA plug). The Mic2496 V2 can provide full 48V phantom power, and you can attach mics with XLR connectors using a breakout cable that Core Sound sells.
A preamp a lot of us are interested in is the Five Fish Studios TS-2. It will be available soon. Read about it over on the Preamp section of this forum
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105112.0.html and
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108569.0.html
Flintstone
i know the xlr1 is not a pre, but permits the d50 to be run with xlr cables. are the pres on the d50 such that it would be unreasonable/unnecessary to use a mp2 or some other pre. if so, then the xlr1 could be a nice (albeit overpriced) option.
i will probably wind up going with a external pre along with the d50 (which i plan to use as a point and shoot recorded in certain instances), but if anyone has any input on experience with the xlr-1 or pictures of the alleged streamlinedness, that would be great.
thanks again for the responses
Hi I just use the ART Phantom and an adapter XLR to Mini jack. With my AT Miks 3031/3032 ist pure joy...
I just returned from overseas and finally got the chance to use my D50 last night for the first time. After using it for a grand total of one time, I think that I can say that it is the best recorder that I have ever used. I have used a D8, Microtrack, and PMD671 in the past as a way of comparison. The single most significant thing that Sony did with this unit is place as many of the controls on the outside of the box so you aren't wading through an endless succession of menus like on the Microtrack or the PMD671. While not as feature-rich as the PMD671, it has everything that I need. A dual level control would be nice, but I can clean really bad levels up in the post anyway. As many others have mentioned, the unit's construction is also outstanding. It doesn't feel like a cheap piece of crap like a Microtrack that will explode in my hand at any second, nor does it have that unit's flaky interface. It feels solid and well-built.
To anybody considering purchasing this unit, don't be put off by the fact that it is slightly more expensive than competing products. The ease of use and construction are off the charts, and the D50 just feels like something that has been tested and tweaked to death and is a better product for it. You get what you pay for, and in this case, it is worth every penny.
Glad you're liking it -- and ditto, I agree completely. I really like the D50, fantastic little recorder, well built, solid construction, good features, very good battery life, easily field-replaceable AAs, digital-in for use as a bit bucket, and to top it off, really good sound on line-in and mic-in.
I've owned and used probably 15 or 20 field recorders, and the D50 is definitely in the front of the pack. I'd say the SD 7xx boxes are the top in their class of recorder, and likewise the D50 is the top in its class for the smaller hand-held recorders. I'm always recommending it, esp since it doesn't seem to get nearly enough use in our application. People seem to overlook it since it is a bit larger and a bit more expensive, which is too bad.
On a number of occasions, I've run: mics> Lunatec V3 (optimod)> D50 (digital in) and it is a great, relatively compact, high-end rig. I've put together a new 2ch rig and will be running: Milab VM44-link> EAA PSP2> D50 (analog in). First use will be tomorrow, and I've got no fear of using the D50 as my main recorder or as my A/D stage. From my experience with the D50, this will be an excellent, uber-compact rig to run.
The only thing I don't like is the D50 doesn't have a line level input that I know of. So if I want to transfer a vinyl or cassette I have to use the gain knob and get the levels where I think they should be. I would like to be able to transfer line level at 24/96.
Quote from: stantheman1976 on December 29, 2008, 12:34:05 PM
The only thing I don't like is the D50 doesn't have a line level input that I know of. So if I want to transfer a vinyl or cassette I have to use the gain knob and get the levels where I think they should be. I would like to be able to transfer line level at 24/96.
NOPE, it does indeed have a Linelevel switch on the Outside
QuoteThe only thing I don't like is the D50 doesn't have a line level input that I know of.
Maybe apples and oranges, but in case the same, I record off of my board to line in, and have meters. Line in/mic switch on the side in line in position?
tj
That's for switching from internal mics to line in, but the gain knob still affects the sginal, right?
Quote from: stantheman1976 on December 29, 2008, 12:42:02 PM
That's for switching from internal mics to line in, but the gain knob still affects the sginal, right?
YES SIR always with the Pot inthe signal way
Quote from: headroom on December 29, 2008, 12:43:25 PM
Quote from: stantheman1976 on December 29, 2008, 12:42:02 PM
That's for switching from internal mics to line in, but the gain knob still affects the sginal, right?
YES SIR always with the Pot inthe signal way
Are you sure? Do you know the circuit design of the D50? Sorry, but such blanket statements are difficult to make with any certainty, IME. It may well be that the audio signal goes thru the pot, which would then have some effect (probably very modest) on the signal. Gain circuits can also be designed so that the audio signal is not routed through the pot, but rather the pot provides a gain-set resistance to gain circuit (eg., op amps). In such a case, the fact that a pot is used for setting gain has no practical effect on the audio signal, since the audio signal itself isn't being attenuated with the pot.
Bottom line, without knowing enough about the circuit design used, we can't say anything for sure one way or the other. People read these blanket statements and get all alarmed that somehow a particular piece of gear is ill-suited to an application. Personally, I'd say don't worry about setting the gain using the gain knob. And for that matter, I'd say if you are recording a "line" level signal (which can come in lots of different signal strengths, depending on the gear providing the "line" level output) using anything with an A/D section, you will have some way of setting the exact gain to set the recording level. Meaning that whatever gear you choose, you will have this "problem", and without knowing alot about the particular design used for the particular gear in question, you won't know which gear option is better than the alternative. 0.02.
Its a bit different I have the copmlete service manual and all schematics
:-)
Gotcha, good to know. :) Again, just trying to make sure accurate info gets passed along, and lots of time people make assumptions based on how other gear works, and its hard to know who really knows what.
I was just going to put together a bit more to follow up on my last post, though it seems you know the design of the D50. To be more clear in what I was saying before for anyone interested in geekiness, in very general terms you could have a pot (potentiomenter, variable resistor) that works to provide a particular signal level using a few different designs:
1) signal -> pot -> gain stage -> output
2) signal -> gain stage -> pot -> output
3) signal -> gain stage -> output
pot to set gain -^
In the first two cases, the audio signal goes directly thru the pot, which can then have an effect on the signal itself. In the third case, the pot provides a resistance that is used to set the gain of the circuit, but the audio signal does not pass through the pot itself, so the pot doesn't degrade the signal. As an example, look at the application notes on page 4 of the THAT1510 mic preamp IC: http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/1500data.pdf
Not 1 / 2 /3 its different!!!
Cool, thanks for sharing! Minus all the switching and stuff though, it looks like the line level goes thru something like option 1) though, doesn't it? The switches route the line signal around, but then it goes thru the pot and then into the line-level gain stage.
Can you provide the full block diagram? It's good to know what's happening inside the recorder.
...
sorry not much time to comment. I am, going in a silent retreat tomorrow with ARTUR ( Advaita Buddhist teacher) for 7 days. And have to finish my jobs here in switzerland
Just picked up a used D50 today! Sweet! Looking very good.
Plan to pair it with the V3 for shows when not in lowprofile mode, but also to plan to use when I am in the field to grab natural audio for slideshows.
Thanks to all for their advice on this fine unit.
cb
Works well in low profile as well since that 20db pad on the mic input is an amazing little life saver. I personally do not prefer the limiter. But, for mics into recorder, it's made some sweet sounding shows.
I'm loving the D50.
I've been running Countryman B3 and Sennheiser KE4 directly into plug in power on mic in. 0dB atten for ambient stuff, 20dB atten for shows. I like the lights green/red on each channel. Controls are great. The other great thing is the powersave modes. You can leave it on and it goes into powersave mode. Hit record, or plug in a USB cable and the unit "wakes up" and starts running. Nice...
Richard
Quote from: illconditioned on December 29, 2008, 03:07:21 PM
I'm loving the D50.
I've been running Countryman B3 and Sennheiser KE4 directly into plug in power on mic in. 0dB atten for ambient stuff, 20dB atten for shows. I like the lights green/red on each channel. Controls are great. The other great thing is the powersave modes. You can leave it on and it goes into powersave mode. Hit record, or plug in a USB cable and the unit "wakes up" and starts running. Nice...
Richard
Richard,
So the D50 powers the B3's just fine?
I have a couple B6's that would be awesome to wire up to a 3.5mm and run directly into the recorder.
I owned a D50 when it was first released, but had to sell it in order to help fund my 702 that I needed for some work projects...
so I didn't get to test the built-in preamp very much.
thanks.
Quote from: Jamos on December 29, 2008, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: illconditioned on December 29, 2008, 03:07:21 PM
I'm loving the D50.
I've been running Countryman B3 and Sennheiser KE4 directly into plug in power on mic in. 0dB atten for ambient stuff, 20dB atten for shows. I like the lights green/red on each channel. Controls are great. The other great thing is the powersave modes. You can leave it on and it goes into powersave mode. Hit record, or plug in a USB cable and the unit "wakes up" and starts running. Nice...
Richard
Richard,
So the D50 powers the B3's just fine?
I have a couple B6's that would be awesome to wire up to a 3.5mm and run directly into the recorder.
I owned a D50 when it was first released, but had to sell it in order to help fund my 702 that I needed for some work projects...
so I didn't get to test the built-in preamp very much.
thanks.
B3's are just fine. But you need to rewire them. I put a 2k resistor between FET source and ground, much like Chris Church does in his 4.7k mod.
B6's, no it will not power. Not enough current for these guys on plug in power. You'll need an external battery box, and *be careful*. B6 will only tolerate something like 2V or damage will occur. Most mics are cool up to 10V or so, but be careful when powering DPA or B6. Also, B6, regular sens, will overload on loud music IME.
Richard
I've had a D50 since it came out, but haven't used it much as I really love my Sonosax MiniR82. The MiniR82 has spoiled me for most other small recorders, as it can run 5 hours at 24/96 without touching it, close to 10 hours with a small external power pack. Only the D50 does this (with seamless track breaks at 2GB instead of 4GB).
Recently I have had a recurrence of a weird problem with the the Sonosax, a R/L channel swap while recording, and have to send the machine back to Switzerland for repair. This has turned me back to looking at the D50, but I have been a bit nervous about the sound quality given that Sony has stated that the preamp and A/D are not as high-end as the superb D1 (which however can only do 2 hours at 24/96 unattended, since it won't take memory sticks bigger than 4GB so far as known). I was testing the optical-in signal from the Core Sound mic 2496 (Version 1) and found the recorder saw it at 24/48 instead of 24/96, but that the clock on the D50 was running double speed (and a 16GB memory stick pro duo card went from space remaining 7 hours + to 14 hours +). So I'm pretty sure it's recording correctly at 24/96. I recall reports when the D50 first came out that it had this problem with 24/96 signals from some high-end A/D too.
Does anyone know if the recordings made this way are okay? Also, what is a simple way to edit the wave headers to correct the header so that Wavelab, etc., sees the file as 24/96 instead of 24/48??
Jeff
Jeff,
From my knowledge it's not the fault of the D50 but the fault of your core-sound Mic 2496 converter. Your core-sound converter is not sending the correct 24bit signal to your D50.
It happened to me with my D50 when using it with the V3. Grace Design upgraded the chip in the AD converter so that it will send the correct 24bit signal. Now it worked fine but I don't use it (my D50 and V3 is collecting dust now).
If you ask Core-sound to send you a chip so that their mic 2496 version 1 will send the corrected signal you will be find.
So it's not the D50's fault but the your mic 2496.
There were posts regarding this issue when the D50 first came out. Many people had this problem but solved it by upgrading a chip in the AD converter. If I were you I will contact Core-Sound. Good luck!
Quote from: krsb on December 29, 2008, 02:52:28 PM
Just picked up a used D50 today! Sweet! Looking very good.
Plan to pair it with the V3 for shows when not in lowprofile mode, but also to plan to use when I am in the field to grab natural audio for slideshows.
Thanks to all for their advice on this fine unit.
cb
cb,
Remember to upgrade your chip in your V3 before taking it for a run. If you have changed your V3 chip you should be fine running the D50 @2496.
Already done!
Previously, I was running the V3 into a Iriver, so I upgraded it a few months ago. (great service by Grace btw, sent the chip to me for free over here in Europe) ;D
cb
Quote from: scyue on December 29, 2008, 10:21:42 PM
Quote from: krsb on December 29, 2008, 02:52:28 PM
Just picked up a used D50 today! Sweet! Looking very good.
Plan to pair it with the V3 for shows when not in lowprofile mode, but also to plan to use when I am in the field to grab natural audio for slideshows.
Thanks to all for their advice on this fine unit.
cb
cb,
Remember to upgrade your chip in your V3 before taking it for a run. If you have changed your V3 chip you should be fine running the D50 @2496.
Is the Mini ME also sending the correct 24/96 Signal on the Coax Output? I know its not optical but its possible to make a conversion tho Toslink.
Quote from: WiFiJeff on December 29, 2008, 04:39:14 PM
I've had a D50 since it came out, but haven't used it much as I really love my Sonosax MiniR82. The MiniR82 has spoiled me for most other small recorders, as it can run 5 hours at 24/96 without touching it, close to 10 hours with a small external power pack. Only the D50 does this (with seamless track breaks at 2GB instead of 4GB).
Recently I have had a recurrence of a weird problem with the the Sonosax, a R/L channel swap while recording, and have to send the machine back to Switzerland for repair. This has turned me back to looking at the D50, but I have been a bit nervous about the sound quality given that Sony has stated that the preamp and A/D are not as high-end as the superb D1 (which however can only do 2 hours at 24/96 unattended, since it won't take memory sticks bigger than 4GB so far as known). I was testing the optical-in signal from the Core Sound mic 2496 (Version 1) and found the recorder saw it at 24/48 instead of 24/96, but that the clock on the D50 was running double speed (and a 16GB memory stick pro duo card went from space remaining 7 hours + to 14 hours +). So I'm pretty sure it's recording correctly at 24/96. I recall reports when the D50 first came out that it had this problem with 24/96 signals from some high-end A/D too.
Does anyone know if the recordings made this way are okay? Also, what is a simple way to edit the wave headers to correct the header so that Wavelab, etc., sees the file as 24/96 instead of 24/48??
Jeff
I think you can change the header very easy with Amadeus Pro with the Command "Characteristica" or any other Professional Soundeditor. Good luck
Audio Lines in Chicago has the unit for $399. Wow.
Update. I called and it is a bait and switch. They are not in stock.
Trying to decide between this, the FR2-LE and the R-09HR. Does anyone know how the D50 AD stage compares to the FR2-LE? For me stealth isn't really an issue, but I would like to know the dimensions of the D50. The specs say that it's 6.1" but I can't tell if that includes the mics on the top. I'd be using this with the RCA outs of an Nbox, so not really intersted in the mic-in gain FWIW.
I'm not at home to give you the extact dimensions, but in terms of size, I posted a photo of my FR2-LE, D50, the old M1, and a regular R09. (HR is slightly larger)
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,113554.0.html
I can't speak for the Fostex or R09, but I love the D50. IME the line stage and A/D are top notch, and the deck is very robust, both on a physical level and on a firmware level. Bottom line, works great, sounds great, very reliable.
I found mine used for a good price and just got it, without any need or plan for it. Figured for my occasional stealth or as a backup to my 722. I've since got rid of the 722 for a 702, and got rid of that for an Edirol R44 (Oade CMod). Still have the D50 though and use it all the time, generally using it instead of the OCM R44 unless I want 4ch. I'd say the line/AD stage stacks up to all those recorders. Lately I've been forgoing my V3(digi)>D50 route and instead running EAA PSP2(analog)>D50, very compact and sounds great.
Anyway, bigs thumbs up for me on the D50 -- my favorite recorder I've ever owned except for the SD 7xx boxes.
Thanks Todd - that's the kind of endorsement I want to hear!
I'm a big fan of the D50 as well. I've done a few comparisons running line out of my Sonosax to D50 and also XLR to my Mytek 192. The Mytek always sounded better, but I'm also very happy with the D50 a/d conversion. Lately I've been running DPA 4021 > Oade m148 > D50 and it sounds amazing for such a small compact rig.
Johnw, the size of the D50 is real similar to a Sony D8 for the most part. I love it, you can throw it in your back pocket and also run it for 5 hours off of 4 AA's. Totally portable.
My only complaints are: No S/PDIF input and I wish you could control L and R levels independently.
I love my D50, best recorder I have ever own, but I have only MD experience.
It does have mini-TOSLINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK) input, which is S/PDIF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPDIF) or am I crazy?
Quote from: mrsoul on January 23, 2009, 02:55:30 PM
I love my D50, best recorder I have ever own, but I have only MD experience.
It does have mini-TOSLINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK) input, which is S/PDIF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPDIF) or am I crazy?
BTW, any one interested in a used Sony RH10 (http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-RH10.html)with remote ?
Quote from: mrsoul on January 23, 2009, 02:55:30 PM
I love my D50, best recorder I have ever own, but I have only MD experience.
It does have mini-TOSLINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK) input, which is S/PDIF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPDIF) or am I crazy?
You're right. I actually meant S/PDIF coax input.
can levels be adjusted in record mode ? I read the manual but it is not clear
Quote from: gdplusmore on January 23, 2009, 07:11:02 PM
can levels be adjusted in record mode ? I read the manual but it is not clear
The levels can be adjusted as a group, but not individually for the left and right channels.
To chime in with what some other people have said, the A/D stage in the D50 is fine. Of the units that I have used, it is significantly better than the A/D in the Sony D8, SBM-1 (modified and unmodified), and in the Microtrack. I preferred the A/D in my Apogee MiniMe, but the D50 obviates the need for me to carry around the unwieldy Apogee unit and the 6 volt battery that I needed to power it.
Like Todd, I run PSP-2 > D50 and this is a compact front end that sounds fantastic. I highly recommend the D50 if you are looking at an "all in one" recorder not just because it has a good A/D stage, but because it does so many things well in a small and robust package.
Sorry for a very newbie question, but if you wanted to connect a pair of DPA 4060 to the PCM-D50, how would you go about it?
Thanks
Justin
Quote from: Justinasia on January 24, 2009, 08:21:10 AM
Sorry for a very newbie question, but if you wanted to connect a pair of DPA 4060 to the PCM-D50, how would you go about it?
Thanks
Justin
Mic-in/line-in for the D50 is a single stereo mini, so your mics need to be terminated as such. I think Chris Church could build you a 9100 pre to power those mics however they are terminated.
Quote from: Belexes on January 24, 2009, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: Justinasia on January 24, 2009, 08:21:10 AM
Sorry for a very newbie question, but if you wanted to connect a pair of DPA 4060 to the PCM-D50, how would you go about it?
Thanks
Justin
Mic-in/line-in for the D50 is a single stereo mini, so your mics need to be terminated as such. I think Chris Church could build you a 9100 pre to power those mics however they are terminated.
I tried to find out how they are terminated and it seemed to be "microdot". I have no idea what that is. Anyway, anyone who has them, what would be needed to adapt them to the D50? And, are you saying a preamp? Or, what is this 9100 pre? And how much does it cost?
Thanks
Justin
You are going to need someone to either re-terminate the ends into a 3.5mm jack to work with a battery box or buy the preamp or adapters from DPA. The adapters are expensive and not easy to find from what I recall. Maybe try searching the threads in the microphone section.
The D50 has a preamp built-in, and it also provides some power for mics, but I don't think it has enough power for the DPA's, IIRC. This means you'll need to either get a battery box or small external pre to power the mics. Church-Audio builds good quality, small boxes for just this purpose. You can pay him to solder a mini-jack on the end of your mic pair as well, if that's what you're looking to do.
Look in the "retail sales" sectiton on this board and you'll find tons of offerrings from him.
Since early January I have been running DPA4060 > DPA MMA6000 > D50 pretty much every day, while my Sonosaxes sit in Switzerland being diagnosed and hopefully repaired. I recommend the MMA6000 with the 4060s very highly, a great preamp designed for these mics. I have had no problems at all with the D50, though I do think the Sonosax MiniR82 sounds better (or maybe I just know it and love it too well). I am using a 16 GB Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo "Mark 2"card, works just great. The transfer times via USB are longer than off the MiniR82 hard drive, but this is not a big deal. And I love the security of a loooooong battery life.
Jeff
Quote from: Justinasia on January 24, 2009, 11:34:19 AM
Quote from: Belexes on January 24, 2009, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: Justinasia on January 24, 2009, 08:21:10 AM
Sorry for a very newbie question, but if you wanted to connect a pair of DPA 4060 to the PCM-D50, how would you go about it?
Thanks
Justin
Mic-in/line-in for the D50 is a single stereo mini, so your mics need to be terminated as such. I think Chris Church could build you a 9100 pre to power those mics however they are terminated.
I tried to find out how they are terminated and it seemed to be "microdot". I have no idea what that is. Anyway, anyone who has them, what would be needed to adapt them to the D50? And, are you saying a preamp? Or, what is this 9100 pre? And how much does it cost?
Thanks
Justin
OK so I have done more searching on this forum and seems like Church Audio's ST-9100 is perhaps better than the DPA MMA6000 for using the DPA 4060 to the
PCM-D50, right? From what I've read it seems it is smaller, cheaper and same sound quality. That's good news. One thing I don't understand though, is
why do we need to use a preamp? Is it because this preamp is better than the one in the PCM-D50? And then, if the PCM-D50 is expensive (relatively) because it has a good preamp, if we are going to use this 9100 preamp why not use it with a recorder with no preamp (if there is such a thing) to save space and money?
Another question is, what about the
UGLY? CA website is not functioning so it is difficult for me to really understand about these things. Seems like the UGLY will have the same sound but cheaper still?
So would it be the UGLY I would want? Then, if so,
would it be better to get the pre to take microdots, or get the mic ends changed to a more standard end so I can use the pre with other more standard mics? And any idea how long the UGLY (or 9100 if that is a better choice)'s batteries will last in this setup?
Then there's the "High End Binaural microphone (HEB) set". More confusion... is that something I should be worrying about? (More closely matched etc.)
I realise I have asked a lot of questions at once. Thank you all for your patience.
Quote from: Justinasia on January 26, 2009, 03:00:38 AM
OK so I have done more searching on this forum and seems like Church Audio's ST-9100 is perhaps better than the DPA MMA6000 for using the DPA 4060 to the PCM-D50, right? From what I've read it seems it is smaller, cheaper and same sound quality. That's good news. One thing I don't understand though, is why do we need to use a preamp? Is it because this preamp is better than the one in the PCM-D50? And then, if the PCM-D50 is expensive (relatively) because it has a good preamp, if we are going to use this 9100 preamp why not use it with a recorder with no preamp (if there is such a thing) to save space and money?
TS is not a place to save money. :P
The D50 has a very good on-board pre, but you are will going to need a battery box to power the mics. So if you have to have one more piece of gear, why not make it the ST-9100? It can serve to power the mics as well as a pre. I think it's well worth the money.
Quote from: Belexes on January 26, 2009, 07:50:55 AM
The D50 has a very good on-board pre, but you are will going to need a battery box to power the mics. So if you have to have one more piece of gear, why not make it the ST-9100? It can serve to power the mics as well as a pre. I think it's well worth the money.
Better than the pre in the D50? And then how about the UGLY. If that is the same audio quality, but smaller and cheaper, shouldn't I prefer the UGLY? Or am I missing something?
The Pre in the D 50 is outstanding below levels of 5.5. With a Digital RIAA Equaliziung you can even record with ur Platter Moving Coil or Magnet direct to the Mic Input. And its sounding super duper!
Quote from: Justinasia on January 26, 2009, 08:15:47 AM
Quote from: Belexes on January 26, 2009, 07:50:55 AM
The D50 has a very good on-board pre, but you are will going to need a battery box to power the mics. So if you have to have one more piece of gear, why not make it the ST-9100? It can serve to power the mics as well as a pre. I think it's well worth the money.
Better than the pre in the D50? And then how about the UGLY. If that is the same audio quality, but smaller and cheaper, shouldn't I prefer the UGLY? Or am I missing something?
The pre in the D50 is excellent but the D50 doesn't provide as much power as the CA preamp, or any other 9-12V preamp for that matter. Having your mics powered properly will make a difference. You can use a battery box which will power the mics and use the inernal pre on the D50 and will not be disappointed, but the CA pre will provide gain and power.
Ist s not about Power, its the Voltage 40XX needs 7.5 Volt D-50 delivers 2.6...
So it's only the power we need? Are you saying aside from power, the CA pre won't actually improve the sound? If so, wouldn't it be cheaper to just have something to power the mics, and go straight into the D50 to use its pre? (Is there such a thing?)
Quote from: Justinasia on January 26, 2009, 09:24:12 AM
So it's only the power we need? Are you saying aside from power, the CA pre won't actually improve the sound? If so, wouldn't it be cheaper to just have something to power the mics, and go straight into the D50 to use its pre? (Is there such a thing?)
Sound Professionals make some nice battery boxes, some with adjustable roll-off. You could go mics>battery box>D50. Things you see a lot of tapers do here aren't necessarily the cheapest but what we think will give us the optimal results. Pre amps are important in this community as we are use to dealing with terrible built-in ones with the portable recorder market. The D50 pre though is very acceptable though.
If you are concerned about size, the UGLY pre would be the way to go.
OK I get that you guys want quality - me too. But I can't understand yet. Is the UGLY/ST-9100 better than the pre in the D50? If so, then I can understand the value of gettin gone over just getting a battery box.
I don't think anyone has done a comp yet of mics>bb>D50 and mics>9100>D50. It sounds from your posts that you'd be happy with a battery box and it's your ears that count, not anyone elses. Remember that if you tape loud shows, the 9100 just acts as a battery box. The 9100 is more useful when using gain for acoustic or more quiet performances.
The MMA 6000 is not so good in terms of High End.
But the Batterybox can be done easely you just need 2 Microdots and a 9 V Battery.
7.5 V Open Circuit /0.75 mA current/ 2.8 V Zener Voltage Across DPA/ 3.3 K Ohm resistor, minimum 2.2 k maximum 6.78 k Bias resistor 10 k is to high. The Micinput in parallel is aprox 1.5 k Ohm 10k Ohm is just a joke
In my opinion, the D50-'s preamp is better
(lower self noise, better limiter, low mic
sensitivity still provides good gain)
than the Sound Professionals preamps.
So I'd use a battery box rather than the
more expensive external pre.
I'd advise you to try the D50's internal
mics before purchasing externals. And
look for an audio store that will let you
try several mics before making a purchase
decision.
Flintstone
Quote from: Belexes on January 26, 2009, 07:50:55 AM
TS is not a place to save money.
Almost spit out my Red Bull over here. Thanks.
Quote from: Justinasia on January 26, 2009, 10:00:49 AM
OK I get that you guys want quality - me too. But I can't understand yet. Is the UGLY/ST-9100 better than the pre in the D50? If so, then I can understand the value of gettin gone over just getting a battery box.
The main advantage of using an external preamp is if you need extra gain for quiet material. If you get a CA9100 pre you can always put the switch to 0 and it will function as a battery box and you can still use the D50 internal pre. If you need a little extra boost switch the 9100 to one of its gain setting and you've got some extra, clean boost to your signal.
So far no-one is recommending the UGLY over the ST-9100 then?
My recordings will be of quiet solo acoustic music, so perhaps one of these pre's may be useful.
Is it usual to connect DPA4060 > UGLY/ST-9100 > D50 via mic in then to get extra gain, rather than line in?
If you're using an external preamp always go line in. There's no need to use a preamp and go mic in, especially with a good quality preamp like the CA. I think the 9100 has +30dB right? That should be plenty for your applications.
I believe Chris Church said that the UGLY has the exact same circuitry as the 9100. I think he made originally as a sort of experiment to see how small he could make a preamp IIRC. Quality wise it's just as good as the 9100. It's just made to be as compact as possible and not to look pretty. At least that's how I remember it being explained.
If you use an external preamp with the D50, can you not use the D50's limiter?
Quote from: (Evan) on January 26, 2009, 11:10:01 PM
If you use an external preamp with the D50, can you not use the D50's limiter?
You can still use the limiter.
Hi!
A long time reader, first time poster here to join the parade. First thanx for the great information and discussions on this site, been helping me a lot concerning the (outdoors) recording and gear!
I got D50 as xmas present and love using it, this is really nice unit. I've yet to decide how to interface the external mics into it, but so far the internals have kept me busy enough to get things going.
I found curious behaviour in the optical output though, and wonder if anybody else has noticed the same. It seems that my D50 doesn't output sync clock in any other but Play or Play/Pause mode. Fine otherwise, but when connected into my digital tracker, it takes about 10 seconds for it to sync into the D50 clock and be able to record the signal. Having D50 in Play/Pause mode until my tracker is synced doesn't help either; when I enter the Play mode, the clock seems to reset and the tracker drops out of sync again. Same thing with FF/FR and looping actions, reset at the beginning.
Not really a big problem for me, I simply transfer from D50 into PC first, as usual. But anyways, trying straight into my tracker this way, I'll loose the 1st ten seconds in any folder I play back.
PS. Here's some interesting (or not) test results from my winter holiday in arctic; My D50 recorded and played back happily in -28 C (-18.4 F) temperature outside. I did five 10-15 minute sessions, holding D50 out in my hand, not inside the pocket. No glitches, no hiccups.
Quote from: mrsoul on October 01, 2008, 07:26:29 AM
QuoteHas anyone tested whether the optical digital output is active during recording and whether someone with another D50, or an H120, or a JB3 can get an optical digital patch during the show from a D50?
Last night, I took the optical out from my Creative digital out>PCM-D50 optical input>Recording Active>Optical Out of PCM-D50>Sony Hi-MD recording. No problems and I get "Digital Recording" on the Sony Hi-MD. So, yes, if recording with Optical in on PCM-D50, it still passes an optical out.
Is it exactly the same signal? I have no way of testing this personally. Does it convert and then send out a different digital signal than what comes in? I don't know. Any way to test?
When I was testing a soundcard in my computer, I output a DTS signal > coax > stereo amp and watched for dropouts/etc. You could give that a whirl and see if you encounter any issues. Not a perfect test, but it would be useful information.
It works perfect during recording.I have a digital transmitter from the PCM 50 Optical to the Videocam and it works.
Just want to let folks know that Staples is selling an 8GB Sandisk memory stick pro duo for $30, apparently a good price. Don't know if it works with the D50.
http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/StaplesProductDisplay?&langId=-1&storeId=10001&noredir=true&catalogId=10051&productId=243499&cmArea=
Edit - OOS online, but shows in stock in most stores in the LA area. YMMV.
Same exact one I have and it works fine.
+1 for the Staples deal...got mine today, works normally, no unrecognized message.
tj
Sorry if this is redundant, but I tried feeding my D50 a 24/48 signal from a V3 with ANSR off /freq =48 and the D50 displays that it is recording digital but at 16/44.1.
Reading through this thread I see that people were having problems recording at 24/96 and this was solved by replacing a chip in the AD section sent to them from Grace.
Grace has a place on their website to request a new firmware chip. Is this what people were replacing, and should this then allow me to record at whatever the grace sends out - up to 24/96?
I believe the D50 was one of the digital devices that needed the V3's firmware upgrade to read the wav file-header info correctly. I could be wrong on that one...
However, if you haven't replaced the chip yet go ahead and shoot Grace a message. They'll mail the replacement out super quick and it's a <5min install.
Just wanted to report back that indeed updating the V3 firmware resolved the issue with the D50. Thanks!
That was fast! Glad to hear it worked out for you.
I have a battery life question with the D50. How long will 4 AA Duracell / Energizer batteries last in the unit with the plug-in power engaged? I am using Sonic Studios DSM-6/L microphones. This would assume that the light is off to conserve power. Has anybody done this?
Don't have any PIP-powered mics to test this myself, but I'm wondering how close that would be to using the internal mics?
I have done some battery testing (about 2000 mAh charge), recording with internal mics, all lights on and driving headphones at the same time. My thinking was to get an idea about the heaviest possible power consumption...as I stated in another topic:
About the D50 battery life; so far I've been able to get about 12 hours with light and leds on, recording with internal mics (gain at 5) and monitoring thru 600 Ohm studio headphones (volume at 5) at the same time. Not bad at all, I'd say.
Just returned from the Scion festival. Used four fresh Panasonic lithiums as a "just-in case" thing. I recorded seven hours of music using the plug-in power and then listened for about three hours after the show on headphones and the battery meter is still completely full.
Have not done any "scientific" testing with my PCM-D50 but I can anecdotally say you can get way more than you think out of those 4 AA and the PCM-D50 regardless of the source. I never even bother to turn off the lights unless I am stealth. This thing will run forever on the 4 AA's.
I just wanted to comment on how pleased I am with this thing. The V3 doesn't add that much more - this thing sounds awesome line in.
But the huge advantage is the battery life - absolutely amazing. I recorded almost 11 hours this weekend (phish Hampton) + transferred all files twice, the second time falling asleep and leaving it hooked up by USB overnight - all on ONE set of AAs and it still shows 3/4 full! I use to worry about battery life with my 702, but this thing is a champ. Absolutely killer recorder. IMHO the best of all worlds. If I could, I'd buy another 702 in addition to this, but if I could have only one, this will definitely be it.
I love the battery life as well. It's just nice not having to change out/recharge batteries for every concert. The D50 isn't a power hog, far from it.
mp2>d-50 is a killer combo for battery life. ive got an external hooked up to the mp2 and it's life is most likely longer than the d50. record all day on a single charge. wonder what the future of battery powered machines will hold
Another great thing about the D50 is the "standby" mode. I can leave it on for days at a time, then hit record and go. With the remote it is great for capturing ambient sounds. Just leave it running and "divide" whenever something interesting happens.
Richard
Has the price of the remote dropped any? It was spendy the last time I looked. Do you find it worth the price?
Quote from: mrsoul on April 08, 2009, 07:28:05 AM
Has the price of the remote dropped any? It was spendy the last time I looked. Do you find it worth the price?
It was $60CAD, so probably something like $50USD. It *may* come with the unit in some deals, if so, grab it.
It is not the greatest. My Sony minidisc has an excellent remote, with meters and backlight even. This just has four buttons, rec, pause, stop and divide. And one (red) led to show it is recording. So you've got to get the levels ahead of time. But with levels OK, I love it. Standby mode is what I really like...
Richard
What is the better memory stick to use with the PCM-D50 -- the pro duo HG, or, the pro duo HG HX? I'm most concerned with reliability and transfer speed. Thanks in advance!
My first post; Thanks for a great forum!
edit: By transfer speed, I mean transferring wav's to my computer via USB.
I'm not sure what the difference is between these two memory sticks is anyway ..
Quote from: jeffee on April 25, 2009, 03:37:17 PMWhat is the better memory stick... <snip>
Welcome to TS! You may get a better response if you post a dedicated thread in the Recording Media forum.
Hope I´ll get my PCM-D50 in a few days..."Cindy Blackman Group" plays at my local club in Vienna next Monday :).
Here in Europe the price is 589 Euro ...got mine for 539 + 17 shipping.
Out of the blue my light stopped working and I can only scroll down in the menu settings. I wonder if there is a way to restore the D50 back to the factory settings? Frustrating but it still works like a champ.
I also accidently knocked my D50 off of my gear bag and in to an almost full cup of ice water while recording a few weekends ago. It was submerged in the ice water about a 1/4 of the way down when I grabbed it. Everything came out fine and the recording wasn't affected. There was a little bit of water in the battery cage but other than that I think the internal mechanics stayed dry. Note, this happened a few days after the light and menu scrolling stopped working, so the water incident didn't cause that stuff to happen.
Quote from: brianp on May 14, 2009, 02:08:34 PM
Out of the blue my light stopped working and I can only scroll down in the menu settings. I wonder if there is a way to restore the D50 back to the factory settings? Frustrating but it still works like a champ.
I also accidently knocked my D50 off of my gear bag and in to an almost full cup of ice water while recording a few weekends ago. It was submerged in the ice water about a 1/4 of the way down when I grabbed it. Everything came out fine and the recording wasn't affected. There was a little bit of water in the battery cage but other than that I think the internal mechanics stayed dry. Note, this happened a few days after the light and menu scrolling stopped working, so the water incident didn't cause that stuff to happen.
so it's water proof to. many sony really pulled out the stops on this one ;D.
i cant seem to find a restore to factory settings, but i'd be surprised if there was not one. might be worth a call.
how are people feeling about unity gain? saw that thread down there. 3-4? is there a way to determine properly and exactly? keep that in its own thread. good stuff.
I was curious if anyone has had any dealings with novamusik out of Milwaukee in getting their D50? $449.00 with Free Shipping & a Full Warranty from an "authorized dealer" sounds like a pretty good deal?
...someone push me over the edge! I'm close.
I just ordered my PCM-D50 yesterday, based on the power usage, being a fine bit bucket and just pure Sony sluttiness. It should be here next week. I got it from BH, price was not great but got free shipping and the Sony windscreen.
I like the self contained aspect and the option to use it as such, will be rare but Hardly Strickly Bluegrass is October. Going forward as funds become available a V3 and new mics. Ah sluttiness, she a fickle lass but delivers.
Next step matrix pulls with my FR2LE....
Tim 2.0
Quote from: notsofast on July 23, 2009, 03:08:04 PM
I just ordered my PCM-D50 yesterday, based on the power usage, being a fine bit bucket and just pure Sony sluttiness.
That's what we like to hear!
The price aspect will fade into nothingness once you start using it (and I thought B&H were quite competitive, incidentally).
Enjoy your new machine, I am sure you will love it. The windscreen is not worth $50 but if they bundle it, why not. You will receive a grey drawstring pouch with the windscreen too. It's handy to keep the unit away from dust. Have fun.
Anyone lurking who bought a D50 used? Curious what they are going for? I'd really like to pick up one, But it's hard to buy new since I won't run it that often.
Someone recently patched off me with one. Seamed solid.
Also after seeing Todd R's pics with the PSP 2> D50 were really sexy IMO ;D
Quote from: Kindguy on July 25, 2009, 12:48:47 AM
Also after seeing Todd R's pics with the PSP 2> D50 were really sexy IMO ;D
I also run this. So easy and battery life between the PSP-2 and D50 is incredible. Get one. You won't regret it.
It's tough to find a D50 used...we are all holding onto them. :)
just got mine on the ebay, paid about 75 less than the going rate.... ;D
Just placed an order. ;D
now the wait for delivery...... :hmmm:
Quote from: dactylus on August 06, 2009, 06:12:48 AM
Quote from: empty on August 05, 2009, 08:15:48 PM
Just placed an order. ;D
Looking good empty! :)
SWEET!!! It'll be the first one in town that I know of....... stellar dude stellar!!!
Anyone know if this would work in the D50
2TB Memory Stick here:
http://gizmodo.com/5330606/massive-2tb-memorystick-xc-is-just-insane
https://www.oss-formats.org/en/memorystick/outline/xc.html
That's awesome but yikes...2TB makes me paranoid!
I've been doing some reading and it sounds like the SanDisk Extreme III 8GB (SDHC) is a good card for the D50?
Edit: Hmm the Memory Stick PRO-HG cards look sexy. :hmmm:
Quote from: Kindguy on July 25, 2009, 12:44:36 AM
Anyone lurking who bought a D50 used? Curious what they are going for? I'd really like to pick up one, But it's hard to buy new since I won't run it that often.
Someone recently patched off me with one. Seamed solid.
I paid $435 for a barely used one in Feb 2008. I don't see too many of them popping up used though.
I paid 408 brand new incl postage ;)
arrived today and have been fucking around with it :P
it does show handling noise while using the built in mics :(
but fits a standard camera tripod of which I have MANY ;D
mounted on one, the handling noise disappears and it makes a nice CLEAN sounding recording at low and high volumes :headphones:
will likely use it that way for open shows and give my dpa's a well deserved rest :thinking:
will try it out soon with dpa4061's and spsb3 :bigsmile:
Melvins is this weekend :guitarist: :drummer: but will probably use the old DAT for that since I don't want to risk a good show using new gear :hmmm:
sooooooo...........will try it out on this awesome local metal band the 15th :turnevil:
http://www.myspace.com/vivimancerscrolls
There were A LOT, maybe 10 or more listings by the same seller about 1-2 weeks ago in ebay all brand new selling for $299.99 shipped. Now he's not listing them anymore. I think a few ts members placed bids on them. Don't know if they were lucky.
I broke mine out for a band called the Mermen, did the sound check with just the built ins, ran the mics in different positions, just had it on the table. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality. Maybe over the weekend I can post the samples.
I was hoping to do a matrix of the show but the board to D-50 was all messed up and distorted, not sure what happened. I chalk up to the first running and not taking the time to learn the box better but overall I am very happy.
I will be adding a V3 shortly and will need the V3 (SPDIF?) to D50 cable, what are folks running for that and where might I get one?
Tim
Love the Mermen. Would love to hear it.
Will post on LMA this weekend. Also I know that the show will be showing up with MG m300 source as well. They played a full 3 hour show and well you give it a listen and let me know what you think. I am still working to get the SBD from the FOB engineer for the matrix.
Tim
Had mine sent to the work address and received it today. Oww, it's pretty. :)
Quote from: notsofast on August 10, 2009, 02:07:26 PM
I will be adding a V3 shortly and will need the V3 (SPDIF?) to D50 cable, what are folks running for that and where might I get one?
Assuming you're running a V3 with the opti-mod, you'll need a TOSLINK > Mini ("1/8 in" or "3.55mm") opti cable. If your V3 does not have the optical modification, you will need to run coax (SPDIF) out into a coax>opti digital converter and then TOSLINK > Mini.
UA-5 > PCM-D50 question:
I took it out tonight. Set the UA-5 to output 48kHz. Set the D50 to record 24/48 but when I went to record the signal was bumped down to 16/48. Ended up taping everything @ 16/44.1 for simplicity's sake, telling myself I surely missed something in the manual.
As soon as I got home I set my rig back up and busted out the manual. Pages 29-30 discuss turning the "SYNC REC" option ON. I figured this may have been what I missed so I tried but still got bumped from 24/48 to 16/48 as soon as I hit the Record button. Up until I hit Record I see 24/48 in the corner and figure I'm good. What am I doing wrong?
I'm re-reading both threads (for at least the 2nd or 3rd time) but it's 2:52 AM. Has anyone else had this problem running a UA-5 in front of the D50? TIA! :(
Edit: I'm running a TOSLINK > Mini cable out of the UA-5. Same as I did for UA-5 > iRiver h120 for example.
I never ran mine with a UA-5, but didn't have problems running the D50 out of my V3 at 24bits. Did you also have the UA-5 set to record at 24bits, not 16?
is there a default that it might be stuck on for digi recording? maybe the 24bit icon was for the external mics? i've never ran one before... so i'm just guessing...
Since you are running the D-50 as a bit bucket, the problem should be with the UA-5. It sounds like Todd R is correct, and the UA-5 is at 16 bits. That is likely why your Sony is saying 24 until you press record. The Sony is just taking in the feed from the UA-5.
I just ran through the UA-5 Team threads Parts II & III. Pages 2-4 on part III had some interesting discussion on outputting a 24 bit signal but I'm afraid I'm still confused.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,86745.msg1164564.html#msg1164564
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,86745.msg1166131.html#msg1166131
What is the proper way to set the UA-5 to record 24 bits? To my understanding the ADV switch on the back only makes a 96kHz sample rate possible. What other setting would produce a 24 bit signal sending from the UA-5? Here is what I did last night...
- set the D50 to 24/48
- Connect the UA-5 > D50 via an optical cable (sounds like people have no problem UA-5 > MT2496 via coaxial)
- Set the UA-5 to output 48kHz
- powered up the UA-5
- powered up the D50
Thanks for the replies. They are appreciated!
Quote from: empty on August 16, 2009, 11:22:55 AMWhat is the proper way to set the UA-5 to record 24 bits?
It's been a while, but my recollection is that the ADV switch in the ON position outputs 24-bit, in addition to enabling (though not requiring) 96 kHz sample rate.
ran mine last night for the 1st time, loud heavy metal band, I used the built in mics at 90 and -20 db setting, set up on a 5 foot high camera tripod, it sounded great, I think for open taping this is the set up I'm going to use from now on, for stealth and for crowded venues it will still be the dpa omnis (4061's)
The built in mics are great, and the preamps are nice, no distortion and clean sound even if I amplify the quiet portions of the show to max, no hiss.
nice recorder. next show using the built ins is the Oh Sees Wed.
Quote from: Brian Skalinder on August 16, 2009, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: empty on August 16, 2009, 11:22:55 AMWhat is the proper way to set the UA-5 to record 24 bits?
It's been a while, but my recollection is that the ADV switch in the ON position outputs 24-bit, in addition to enabling (though not requiring) 96 kHz sample rate.
Unfortunately I'm getting the same results with the ADV switch ON (& OFF). Now I fear there is something wrong inside my UA-5.
The D50 shows 24/48 until I hit Record and then it truncates the signal to 16/48.
if Thur still works for you John, I'll stop by and bring my UA5 with me to test out more stuff with you. I'll also bring along my iPAQ pda (which has an optical in on it)
Worst case scenario, if you end up sending your UA5 off for repairs/etc, you can use my pre in the meantime (that is unless I'm using it :P)
In earlyer post`s this Problem was covered. Its the fault off the Device in Front off the PCM 50 wich is not sending the correct flag for 24 bit. PCM 50 will fall back to 16 when this Flag is not embbeded in the PCM Stream. Sony has no Firmware to corrrect this.
The Grace Design V3 Mic AMP and AD has this corrected in the newer Firmware
Jeff,
From my knowledge it's not the fault of the D50 but the fault of your core-sound Mic 2496 converter. Your core-sound converter is not sending the correct 24bit signal to your D50.
It happened to me with my D50 when using it with the V3. Grace Design upgraded the chip in the AD converter so that it will send the correct 24bit signal. Now it worked fine but I don't use it (my D50 and V3 is collecting dust now).
From Post
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95964.150.html
If you ask Core-sound to send you a chip so that their mic 2496 version 1 will send the corrected signal you will be find.
So it's not the D50's fault but the your mic 2496.
There were posts regarding this issue when the D50 first came out. Many people had this problem but solved it by upgrading a chip in the AD converter. If I were you I will contact Core-Sound. Good luck!
D'oh -- I totally forgot abuot this issue. Yep, that's right, the D50 strictly conforms to the spdif standard is the issue I believe (makes sense, it is a sony standard).
Unfortunately, the OP has a UA-5, not a mic2496, so he's probably SOL. :(
Phony Sony :-(
Some background on the issue, for those curious (though some of it is V3-specific). I suspect Edirol fell into the same "trap" as Grace (or Sony as M-Audio, depending on one's perspective):
Quote from: mbgrace on January 02, 2008, 07:04:59 PM
Hi All,
I thought I would chime in here and provide a little background based on what we've learned about the issues you are experiencing. First of all, technically speaking, the V3 is the source of the "problem" with the MTII and the Sony D50. The original V3 firmware does not indicate high sample rate information properly. Also, in consumer mode, bit depth is not indicated. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, at the time we developed the V3 the IEC-90958 standard (the official spdif specification) did not include implementation of bit depth indication and there was no consumer recording equipment that supported high sample rates. Second, the AES-3 specification allows for bit depth and high sample rate indication but it is not a requirement. With this we implemented sample rate indication for 44.1kHz and 48kHz to satisfy consumer DAT and CDR recorders but assumed that if you were recording at higher sample rates your equipment (hard disk recorder or DAW) would require you to set the record sample rate and bit depth manually. There was also an issue with memory space in the V3 processor not allowing room for these extended registers. We have now updated the original V3 firmware so that it will indicate high sample rate information in both professional (AES-3) mode and consumer (IEC-958-3). It will also indicate 24 bit data at all times in both professional and consumer mode. Jamie, our firmware wizard, was able to streamline the code enough to include these. This new firmware is being beta tested presently on the MTII and will be shortly on the Sony D50. The V3 firmware lives on a socketed IC chip that can be easily replaced in the field. When the testing is complete we will ship new chips to anyone who wants the new firmware free of charge. I'll post a link to an online order form on our web site when it is ready. In the mean time I apologize the the inconvenience that this has caused.
With the large quantity of older equipment out there and the fact that these standards change often, it seems like a bad idea to design a piece of equipment that relies only on embedded digital stream data and does not allow for manual override of record settings. I applaud M-Audio's rapid response to this issue with their new firmware.
Michael
Some interesting reading there, Brian and everyone else.
I don't own a D50, MT nor a V3 etc, but was wondering one thing in particular.
If the fault lies within the unit feeding the recorder (in this instance, the UA-5 preamp), then why would some preamps work while others don't? Meaning my UA-5 has no problem sending a 24bit signal to my iPAQ 2495 (which uses the PDAudio card and has only a optical input jack on it). Or is it because of what's "capturing" that signal (ie the recorder) and how that device was configured to do so? If it's the latter, then that just plain stinks !!
Hi thank fou your light for this. The Microtrack I ( old unit) can easy and follow 441/48/96 PCM Modes in 24 bit. But SONY PCM 50 ( newer unit ) cannot do this, cough cough.
Quote from: norma023 on August 18, 2009, 11:10:58 AMSome interesting reading there, Brian and everyone else.
I don't own a D50, MT nor a V3 etc, but was wondering one thing in particular.
If the fault lies within the unit feeding the recorder (in this instance, the UA-5 preamp), then why would some preamps work while others don't? Meaning my UA-5 has no problem sending a 24bit signal to my iPAQ 2495 (which uses the PDAudio card and has only a optical input jack on it). Or is it because of what's "capturing" that signal (ie the recorder) and how that device was configured to do so? If it's the latter, then that just plain stinks !!
First, a clarification: units like the UA-5 and V3 act as both preamp and ADC in a single box. The issue involves the signal output by the ADC portion of these devices and doesn't really have anything to do with the preamp portion.
As for fault, take your pick: One could argue it's...
- Grace and Edirol's fault for not setting the flag in their ADC outputs to say "Hey, Mr. Recorder! I'm a 24-bit data stream...make sure you record me as 24-bit and don't default to 16-bit, you pinwit". But the flag was not included in the SPDIF standard and not required by the AES-3 standard at the time of their development / manufacture, so...why would they? (Note: the AES-3 standard only applies to the V3, since it can output both consumer, i.e. SPDIF, and professional, i.e. AES formats; the UA5 only outputs consumer format.)
- Sony and M-Audio's fault because they should not have built their recorders to rely on a flag that wasn't (isn't?) included in and/or required by the standard.
- Simply a function of changing standards and different interpretation and implementation of those standards; it doesn't make much sense to assign fault.
Yes, it is definitely unfortunate. Sony is designed to meet the relevant standard, but it would be nice to include a manual override if that can be done in a new firmware version.
I'm curious if anyone has used an ad2k in front of a D50 and whether it worked. There aren't too many older A/D units we use much for field recording that provide a 24bit output. The ad2k, V3, and UA5 are probably the main candidates, and perhaps the mytek, though that is newer and might include the correct flags.
So the UA5 doesn't work in front of the D50 at 24bits, and the V3 has a firmware upgrade to allow it. Anyone know about the ad2k and mytek?
Yes, it is definitely unfortunate. Sony is designed to meet the relevant standard, but it would be nice to include a manual override if that can be done in a new firmware version.
No Firmware Updates from Sony arround. I personaly think this will never happen.
All have the same Firmware creation dates and versions yet...
I truly do appreciate all of the clarification (hopefully other UA-5 owners do too!). I do remember reading about this issue with the V3 > D50 combo. I should have investigated further before purchasing. The lack of people running UA-5 > D50 @ 24 bits should have tipped me off. I was just so excited about this recorder that I dove in without doing the proper research.
Yikes, spending $448 to record @ 16/48 (something I can already do with the UA-5 > h120) stings a bit. Live and learn I guess.
HMMM I don't really feel like upgrading pres to record @ 24 bit. Does this mean the D50 hits the Yardsale? HMMM. :-\
Edit: I would love to hang onto it but geez....that purchase really hit the bank account hard.
That's crappy John.
FWIW, I'd sell the UA5 and keep the D50 before I sold the D50 to keep the UA5.
I don't know if you've seen the threads, but you could probably sell the UA5 and get one of the new Naiant littlebox preamps:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,122871.0.html
Both Chuck and I ran separate comps of the littlebox head-to-head against the Lunatec V3, and it compared very well to the V3. In fact, in both comps, with blind comparisons more people preferred the littlebox to the V3. Very nice preamp, with an introductory price of $180 if Jon still has that going.
The D50 actually has a very nice analog/line input stage, so running it with a nice preamp in front of it sounds very good, and would allow you to record at 24bits.
That's a good point, Todd. Selling the D50 over the UA-5 would be kind of a silly move so I should reverse my train of thought. Thanks for the Naiant heads up.
/ends thread jack & likely keeps the D50. :)
no more bit bucket usage though with going with that littlebox however (as I think that was the route John was aiming for).
Those are nice looking preamps though!
True enough in that regard. In my comp, I only compared the littlebox to the V3's preamp stage, with the A/D stage coming from the R44. Chuck compared the littlebox>iriver to the V3(digital)>iriver though, and the littlebox recording still sounded very nice compared to the V3 acting as both preamp + AD.
If you really are into the sound of your preamp+AD, then yes you need a digi-in bit bucket recorder. And I know for years when I ran my V3, that's what I wanted. The real question though in John's case is how does the package of the littlebox+d50 analog in compare in sound to UA5 (digital out) to recorder? If you like the sound of the D50 line-in (using the internal AD) enough, then you won't need a digi-in recorder.
I'm getting far too biased in this, since I really do like that sound quite well, and I've sold my V3 to now run either PSP2>D50 line in, or littlebox>D50 line in. For me, the D50 works great as a non-bit bucket, analog-in recorder. I loved the D50 as a bit bucket, and I love it as well as a line-in recorder. Really too bad though that it is so limited as a bit bucket. Still haven't heard about how it fairs with a mytek or ad2k, but it seems its use as a bit bucket is pretty restricted due to this 24bit flagging issue.
I recently plugged my new D50 line in into the SBD, the results sounded like the signal was too hot and it brick walled. I am not dismissing user error, as I am getting to know the deck.
My questions is, do I need to pad the line in from the SBD to the D50? I have done similar patches with my FR2LE and never had this happen.
Tim
I've never had an issue with my board patches to the D50. That being said though, I do have some attenuators in my bag in case there may be an issue I can fix.
This may be a retarded question, but the D50 can record 24bit with other sampling rates than just 96khz correct? Like 44.1 and 48?
Quote from: su6oxone on August 20, 2009, 08:14:29 PM
This may be a retarded question, but the D50 can record 24bit with other sampling rates than just 96khz correct? Like 44.1 and 48?
Yes. It can record :
22.05/16
44.1/16
48/16
96/16
44.1/24
48/24
96/24
Quote from: hoppedup on August 20, 2009, 08:24:09 PM
Yes. It can record :
22.05/16
44.1/16
48/16
96/16
44.1/24
48/24
96/24
Awesome, that's what I figured but wanted to make sure (planning on getting the PCM M10), thanks!
FWIW, UA-5 users, I just made some 24 bit recordings with both the RCA & 1/4" outs. Digi-out of the UA-5 is indeed a no go with the D50.
I am buying a V3 from one of our fellow TS'ers and it has SPDIF out. From what I have read I should be OK with getting the 24 bit out to the D50, Correct?
Tim
Quote from: notsofast on August 21, 2009, 10:53:20 AMI am buying a V3 from one of our fellow TS'ers and it has SPDIF out. From what I have read I should be OK with getting the 24 bit out to the D50, Correct?
Depends on the V3's firmware/chip version:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95964.msg1671629.html#msg1671629
It is being sent back to Grace for warranty work and my understanding is they will upgrade the chip set as well. Based on what I have read, thanks Brian, with the upgrade and firmware upgrade I should be OK. Guess we shall find out in a couple of weeks.
Tim
Quote from: empty on August 15, 2009, 03:54:05 AM
UA-5 > PCM-D50 question:
I took it out tonight. Set the UA-5 to output 48kHz. Set the D50 to record 24/48 but when I went to record the signal was bumped down to 16/48. Ended up taping everything @ 16/44.1 for simplicity's sake, telling myself I surely missed something in the manual.
As soon as I got home I set my rig back up and busted out the manual. Pages 29-30 discuss turning the "SYNC REC" option ON. I figured this may have been what I missed so I tried but still got bumped from 24/48 to 16/48 as soon as I hit the Record button. Up until I hit Record I see 24/48 in the corner and figure I'm good. What am I doing wrong?
I'm re-reading both threads (for at least the 2nd or 3rd time) but it's 2:52 AM. Has anyone else had this problem running a UA-5 in front of the D50? TIA! :(
Edit: I'm running a TOSLINK > Mini cable out of the UA-5. Same as I did for UA-5 > iRiver h120 for example.
Was this ever resolved? I have a good deal on a UA-5 but I want a 24/48 signal and all I'm getting is 16/48. Tried searching but I'm not coming up with anything. Thanks!
Quote from: frogger on September 23, 2009, 12:47:46 PM
Was this ever resolved? I have a good deal on a UA-5 but I want a 24/48 signal and all I'm getting is 16/48. Tried searching but I'm not coming up with anything. Thanks!
Okay, sorry, I see this was answered at the top of this page. :-[ From what I read about the UA5 is that the signal always goes through the AD converter before the analog out and that isn't what I want. Guess I'm going to have to look into one of Jon's Littlebox
Just used the internal mics on the D50 for the first time at the MONO show on Saturday night. The internals sound better than I imagined, but not anywhere close to even a decent pair of stealth cardioids or omnis. Open sound and very sensitive, but the highs are shrill and lower bass frequencies are virtually nonexistent. They did a decent job of capturing a recording of a show that I would not have otherwise had any way of taping, but don't rely on the internal microphones of doing justice to a critical recording.
I've had variable results with the internals. Just excellent on a couple of quiet shows, I found absolutely nothing wrong with them, including just great bass and crystal clear highs. One very loud show was pretty nice, too. Then a couple later, one where I had a very poor club sound system and the recording sounded as good as what I was hearing, then a couple of very loud shows with nearly overwhelming volume. These were just so/so. I think my dpa's would have done somewhat better on the last 2, but otherwise, I'm pretty impressed with the internals/ ymmv/
conclusion here, so far-----quiet shows, absolutely use the internals, fucking great results.
louder shows, maybe, maybe not, good sound system will probably do pretty well.....
after a newly purchased MTII was DOA, i returned it to Musician's Friends, got a return on my $, and purchased a new D50, which arrived today.
a big plug for Musician's Friend, who were really great in regards to the return item, and in price matching for the new D50, cutting $50 off the price.
i am very eager to record with this thing, which is good as I have a number of shows coming up over the next couple of weeks.
thanks tons for all the information - it was very helpful. thanks to John for his trials w/the UA-5, which saved me an unusable cable purchase since UA-5>digital>D50 in 24-bits is shot.
peace,
ts
Bass (LCF). If you are using your internals (or line input it seems) and the LCF is active, what do you set the range? 75Hz or 150Hz? I accidently left the LCF active and it cut the bass on my line input from my preamp. Not good and the bass response was pretty much dead. (LMA (http://www.archive.org/details/dtb2009-09-13.flac16_busman_ck1s)) But, I do use it when I am using the internals outside.
But, I am not 100% on where to set it. Seems 75Hz is a lower bass range, is that correct? So, the 75Hz filter would limit any responses below that range? Likewise for 150Hz. Seems you would be cutting closer to the "audible" bass if you use the 150Hz. If that is correct, I guess 75Hz would be the preferred LCF range. I am going to record bluegrass this weekend and will likely be using the internals or my SP BMC 12 omnis.
Thanks for any suggestions.
had another opportunity to use the internal mics, loud show, so/so sound system. ran 120 degree separation, nice results. was going to run mic in with dpa4061's, but the internals are just so easy.
I ran my internals hand-held for a campfire jam over the weekend. The crackle and pop from the fire gives it a vinyl kinda feel. It's clear as a bell.
If only that drunk chick had passed out a couple of hours earlier.
I just purchased a D50 used for ($375) from the yard sale. I'm taking the little idiot to Cuba to record street rappers.
The posts here were a great influence on my decision -- thanks! However, I can't help but now wonder.... what is the longest thread in tapersection history?
Quote from: meatballs on October 27, 2009, 10:01:21 PM
However, I can't help but now wonder.... what is the longest thread in tapersection history?
the original team pittsburgh thread. it was deleted years ago. :P
Pittsburgh !!!
I was searching around lastnight for stand / mounting options for the D50 and came across this:
lumedyne extension post B&H # LUATP6. I'm thinking..... buy the post and clamp to the post or put the post in a shockmount.
Can anyone confirm the use of Sony or Sandisk Memory Stick Pro Duo MARK 2 cards (16gb) for the PCM-D50? I am looking to pick up one soon. Some good deals on ebay on these older cards which should operate at speeds to handle the 24/44.1 that I will throw at it.
I have a Pro Duo HG (4gb) but want to expand for the spring festivals.
Looking at the Ultra II and the Mark 2 cards which I think should handle the write speeds. I know Ultra II is much faster but Mark 2 should handle it. Thanks for any info. ???
Quote from: mrsoul on November 28, 2009, 12:01:27 PM
Can anyone confirm the use of Sony or Sandisk Memory Stick Pro Duo MARK 2 cards (16gb) for the PCM-D50? I am looking to pick up one soon. Some good deals on ebay on these older cards which should operate at speeds to handle the 24/44.1 that I will throw at it.
I have a Pro Duo HG (4gb) but want to expand for the spring festivals.
Looking at the Ultra II and the Mark 2 cards which I think should handle the write speeds. I know Ultra II is much faster but Mark 2 should handle it. Thanks for any info. ???
I have a 16GB Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo Mark 2 card and I have been running it for a year without any problems.
Thanks. Looks like Sony says the same.
http://esupport.sony.com/perl/support-info.pl?&info_id=19
There is a vendor selling 16Gb Mark 2 for $26. Just ordered from the guy in China. I'll let you know once I get it. Thanks again.
Quote from: mrsoul on November 28, 2009, 01:23:46 PM
There is a vendor selling 16Gb Mark 2 for $26. Just ordered from the guy in China. I'll let you know once I get it. Thanks again.
Lots of counterfeit cards coming from China via eBay. Be careful...
Always a risk you are right about that. I guess if it's not Mark 2 or fast enough, I will get the unrecognized media error message. What's the best price anyone has seen on 16gb Mark 2's?
I wouldn't touch memory chips on ebay with the item location in China with a 10 foot pole. I bought mine a year ago for around $100.
Quote from: mrsoul on November 28, 2009, 04:15:39 PM
Always a risk you are right about that. I guess if it's not Mark 2 or fast enough, I will get the unrecognized media error message. What's the best price anyone has seen on 16gb Mark 2's?
16GB Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo (Mark 2) are currently $64.95 at B&H.
The PCM-D50 was released before Mark 2 sticks were re-branded like they are, so Sony's little compatibility table looks like it was updated for recent times (it doesn't just take Mark 2 or HG sticks).
I've heard from numerous reports it runs fine on Memory Stick Pro Duo not labelled Mark 2 (I am using a Mark 2 card, however). The manual itself says "Memory Stick Pro HG-Duo" and "Memory Stick Pro Duo (High Speed)" which nearly all the regular ones are.
According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick
"All Memory Stick PROs larger than 1 GB support this High Speed mode".
So you should be fine with a regular Memory Stick Pro Duo of recent vintage, though it seems to make sense for Sony to push you into buying a card branded Mark 2 to simplify their table, even though these cards didn't even exist when the PCM-D50 was released.
http://www.memorystick.com/en/memorystick/feature/index.html#p02
The Mark 2 sticks, incidentally, just specify a minimum write speed of 15mbps, which isn't anything special. Remember these are megaBITs per second, not megaBYTES.
eBay and memory sticks: just say no.
It's a surprise to me that Sony (or Sandisk or whoever) can't buy some fakes, prove that they are to eBay, and shut every seller down who deals in the stuff. They are hurting their reputations by letting it continue.
Thanks for the info.
So, how fast do the cards need to write to handle 2 channel 24/44.1 ?
Quote from: meatballs on October 28, 2009, 06:27:59 PM
Pittsburgh !!!
I was searching around lastnight for stand / mounting options for the D50 and came across this:
lumedyne extension post B&H # LUATP6. I'm thinking..... buy the post and clamp to the post or put the post in a shockmount.
I've just been using a camera tripod with a pan and tilt head. I think the $19 10' light stands on EBay might work ok for higher mounting. The camera tripod I have (cheapo) is light and collapses to about 18", I taped the whole body of the tripod to an overhead beam, the pan and tilt let me face the mics right where I wanted. Nice results.....
Quote from: mrsoul on November 29, 2009, 07:57:20 PM
Thanks for the info.
So, how fast do the cards need to write to handle 2 channel 24/44.1 ?
http://www.sounddevices.com/calculator/index.html
Ok people, time is near for my annual arctic expenditure. If anybody wants me to do some specific tests while there, please let me know. The temperatures will be about -20 C (-4 F) or lower, last year we got down to -30 C at one point.
No, I probably won't soak my D50 in icy water and let it freeze, but if you can think something less radical that you might want to know about cold weather handling, I might be able to arrange some field tests.
I reckon most here won't try and catch The Frozen Mouse & The Snow Crickets winter tour anyway, so this probably won't interest regular "tapers" as such. ;)
But if you ever wondered the working limits of the device, this is one chance to get an idea.
Quote from: mrsoul on November 28, 2009, 04:15:39 PM
Always a risk you are right about that. I guess if it's not Mark 2 or fast enough, I will get the unrecognized media error message. What's the best price anyone has seen on 16gb Mark 2's?
eBay update. The seller unregistered from eBay and I got a security message from eBay about the seller. They also refunded me my money. So, lesson learned. I am getting a 16Gb from Costco once my rebate check lands. Just in time for Wanee!
Has anyone tried a 32gig pro duo card in the D50?
I know this is an extremely old thread but would someone please give me advice on what would be the best setting gain wise on the PCM-D50 with this set up? I was thinking 5 or 6 and then just control the rest from the UA-5? Thank you in advance!
Edirol UA-5 (BM2p+) > Sony PCM D50
When I had a D50 I ran it at 5.
Quote from: empty on July 13, 2012, 03:38:22 PM
I know this is an extremely old thread but would someone please give me advice on what would be the best setting gain wise on the PCM-D50 with this set up? I was thinking 5 or 6 and then just control the rest from the UA-5? Thank you in advance!
Edirol UA-5 (BM2p+) > Sony PCM D50
Quote from: empty on July 13, 2012, 03:38:22 PM
Edirol UA-5 (BM2p+) > Sony PCM D50
Wouldn't you be running digi-out UA5 > opti-in D50, therefore, setting the gain via the UA5 only?
Quote from: audBall on July 13, 2012, 06:59:27 PM
Quote from: empty on July 13, 2012, 03:38:22 PM
Edirol UA-5 (BM2p+) > Sony PCM D50
Wouldn't you be running digi-out UA5 > opti-in D50, therefore, setting the gain via the UA5 only?
not a compatible SPDIF optical stream so it won't lock on. From what I gather, the UA5 chipset was from an edition of the 24bit spdif spec that wasn't completely finalized.
Oh, didn't realize that. Thanks for the clarification, page.