Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: orange on January 28, 2008, 09:47:14 PM
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Hey guys, since you're newb friendly...I've been lurking and eating up a bunch of information over the past few months since I registered, and it looks like I'll be pulling the trigger over the next month or two on a rig.
I'll be taping in the open all summer, no stealth. The majority of my taping will be done in large amphitheatres, mainly in the covered pavilion section.
First time rig, and I'm not looking to spend a bundle of cash, but also not a quick buy-to-upgrade in six months deal.
As I stand right now: Updated.
Studio Projects C4's
Need reccomendations on a preamp & power.
iRiver120
So yeah, I'm absolutely set on the C4's and 120 now, but need help with a preamp/powering the whole system.
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Welcome, and +T for finding this place and doing some reading. It seems a little odd to be going with something like the C1000s and active cables as a starter rig, especially if you have no intention of stealthing. You may want to consider the mics and a decent preamp, like a UA-5, which will give you the power, better preamps and better A/D then going straight into an H4. The mics are always the most important link in the chain, because no gear is ever going to sound better than the signal coming from the mics, so you may want to consider your expenditure of funds, and allocate more in that area. Check out the yard sale, as there are always good deals to be had from people who are upgrading to other mics. Once you start, you never stop.
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I've looked to the UA-5 as well. If I was using that, I would be needing storage device too right?
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yes, you will.
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Active cables - FYI, that term doesn't really apply in this case. It's typically used to describe cables that allow one to run the microphone capsule remotely from the microphone body, like the Schoeps KC5 cables used with CMCx mic bodies and MKx caps. Your budget probably won't provide for the more expensive mics that have active cables as an option. Instead, you'll have just plain old mic cables between your mics and preamp/ADC/recorder.
Consider mics like the Studio Projects C4, rather than the AKG C1000S. I think they sound better. There are some other inexpensive mics that'll do the trick, too, but I'm not as up to speed as I used to be on inexpensive mics, so I'll let others comment.
What's your overall budget?
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Thanks so far everyone.
I'd say all said and done cables, stand, and shock mounts (not a bad idea, right?). $500.
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Thanks so far everyone.
I'd say all said and done cables, stand, and shock mounts (not a bad idea, right?). $500.
Umm, you'll have a pretty hard time getting everything for that price. Even a pair of used, entry-level mics will run you $200-250. I see the H4 is around 260-280 new... say you get lucky and get that for $225. Long cables will probably be $30-50. A decent stand is going to run you $40-50 (based on the heights you'll need for amphitheaters). Plus shockmounts, a bag... you'll need a slightly larger budget. Here's the rig I put together this year:
Avantone CK-1 mics: $300/pair, new (included shockmounts)
used JB3 (recording device): $125
used UA-5 + 25' XLR cables + battery: $240 (or so)
used 11' stand: $50
power cable for battery: $20 (radio shack)
camera bag for carrying everything: $40 (got a very good deal)
Other accessories from B&H: $30
So my total bill wound up being around $800. I think my original goal was in the $600 range.
I agree with the SP C4s over the C1000s. I've heard some good tapes with the C4s.
I recognize your username from antsmarching... I assume you're planning to tape some DMB?
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Hey Newscane, yeah, It's Taylor from ants/SPAC thread. Keep this on the low at least until I actually make the purchases. I balked last year and didn't end up actually buying, and if by chance the finances don't come through I'd like to not disappoint. I have a much better job lined up for this summer so I'll probably grab about 5-10 tapes this summer if I end up getting the gear.
500 is sort of that "I'd like to get it for this price but probably won't happen thing." I don't want/won't break 1000 for sure.
--edit-- I can get a JB3 for no more than an a 100 from a friend, and also watched a few H4's go on eBay the past month or two for well sub-250, and already have a nice bag.
--edit2-- I sent you a PM over on Ants. Check it out.
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Do a lot of research before buying a Zoom H-4 (like reading the Zoom threads). It has a lot of limitations such as reports that lowerering the gain below 100 to keep the levels from reaching 0 BD will not prevent the recording from distorting. Only the using L/M//H sensitivity switches with gain at 100 or above to keep the meters from going over is said to prevent clipping. Also requires an external battery pack to avoid a low level beeping noise that is audible if recording quiet stuff.
In addition I think it's a pain to use. Operating it is not intuitive at all-takes some study of the manual and a little practice to get the hang of it.
What I really hate though is that you can't adjust the gain of the left and right mics at the same time. You must do each separately with an awkward menu instead of 2 knobs, so adjusting the gain would take a bit of fumbling around to accomplish and could not be done smoothly.
I only used mine with a preamp with a single volume control knob to change the gain, so I didn't have that problem. Made a few decent tapes before I put it in mothballs, but didn't find it fun at all to use.
If you want to buy mine (complete with external battery pack) we can talk, but I wouldn't recommend it. Get something you won't want to upgrade almost immediately. If you want to do open taping with full sized mics, the best $225 or so you'd ever spend is the extra money to buy a Fostex FR2-LE instead of the Zoom. It's a very good recorder and later, if you wish, you could spend $175 more for the Busman mod and make it a great one.
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If you want to buy mine (complete with external battery pack) we can talk, but I wouldn't recommend it. Get something you won't want to upgrade almost immediately.
Cool. Nice of you to think of Tmorry326's needs over maybe getting some cash back on a purchase you don't sound too pleased with. If I could +T you, I would! :)
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I bought the Zoom when it first came out, before there were any reports on how it worked in actual practice. I think a good piece of advice for most of us to follow is to never pre-order a recorder, no matter how good the manufacturer's fluff makes it sound. Except of course if you buy it from a company that has a good return policy and you think you'll have time to give it a full test before the return period expires.
As for myself, in the future I'll wait until a potential purchase has been in use long enough that there are reports on taperssection about how it works in practice, whether the preamps are good enough to take advantage of 24 bit recording without an external preamp, etc.
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If you want to buy mine (complete with external battery pack) we can talk, but I wouldn't recommend it.
+T This is what is amazing about this community. Good luck with your rig.
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I have to say, this place is the shit when it comes to this stuff.
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I have to say, this place is the shit when it comes to this stuff.
It totally is. These guys are great and always have an answer to everything.
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Updated my list. Looking for some preamp / powering help. I think the UA-5 would be my top choice but it's going to be outside of my budget when this is all said and done. Looking for something less expensive.
Thanks for the advice on the C4's. ;D I should get the hyper caps for them also, correct?
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Updated my list. Looking for some preamp / powering help. I think the UA-5 would be my top choice but it's going to be outside of my budget when this is all said and done. Looking for something less expensive.
Thanks for the advice on the C4's. ;D I should get the hyper caps for them also, correct?
Jump over a busman bm2p+ UA-5 mod and you'll love the sound of the C4's
I've been running C4's into a UA-5 bm2p+ for more than 8 months and I've made a lot of nice sounding tapes.
+T for you first big step. You should have run into another direction, this shit is addictive... >:D
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Thanks for the advice on the C4's. ;D I should get the hyper caps for them also, correct?
So should I. I just haven't yet. I am told PMI supplies them and you have to call them, don't see them on their web site:
http://www.pmiaudio.com/
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Jump over a busman bm2p+ UA-5 mod and you'll love the sound of the C4's
I've been running C4's into a UA-5 bm2p+ for more than 8 months and I've made a lot of nice sounding tapes. This might still be a little out of the price range...so I'm stilll open to suggestions.
+T for you first big step. You should have run into another direction, this shit is addictive... >:D
How much do they run? I've seen one go for 350 on here. I'll do a little searching and reading on it. I just poked around Archive like the sound between it and the C4's.
So should I. I just haven't yet. I am told PMI supplies them and you have to call them, don't see them on their web site:
http://www.pmiaudio.com/
;D Reading around today I saw that link. I'll call them when I get closer to pulling the trigger.
Thanks a bunch guys.