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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: jerryfreak on April 08, 2019, 07:57:32 PM

Title: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: jerryfreak on April 08, 2019, 07:57:32 PM
cant remember where i read it but there were some mics that can do decent hi spl below 2V, it was some brand i never heard of. also i think some church and SP mics can run on PIP with acceptable results. ive seen several recorders with PIP in the 2-3V range, which is a little low for 4063s which are relatively expensive as well

they dont need to be off-the-shelf necessarily. if resistor mods can help accomplish the same thing, they are fair game

Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: heathen on April 09, 2019, 11:22:44 AM
Though I'm not optimistic about the results, I will be testing the Sennheiser MKE2 mics this Friday with only PiP from my Roland R-05.  If by some miracle they perform well, I'll be shouting from the mountaintop about it.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: beegar on April 09, 2019, 11:45:31 AM
Though I'm not optimistic about the results, I will be testing the Sennheiser MKE2 mics this Friday with only PiP from my Roland R-05.  If by some miracle they perform well, I'll be shouting from the mountaintop about it.

I had great results running mine with PIP from the MixPre 6 at a John Kadlecik solo acoustic show, though it wasn't a loud show at all.

Here's a sample of the first set (mke2 only): https://drive.google.com/file/d/13KCB7E_cEfybdPuEvYeQ_g3-4qSLL1hr/view?usp=sharing

If all goes well, I'll be taping a few shows at 420 Fest next week so I'll have more examples after that.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: weroflu on April 10, 2019, 11:55:15 AM
Oscarsoundtech -tram clones 1.3v
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: chk on April 10, 2019, 01:38:24 PM
AKG CK77’s can run off 1.5V and handle pretty reasonable SPLs, though do best with 9-12v. They are omni’s.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: aaronji on April 12, 2019, 10:56:26 AM
Though I'm not optimistic about the results, I will be testing the Sennheiser MKE2 mics this Friday with only PiP from my Roland R-05.  If by some miracle they perform well, I'll be shouting from the mountaintop about it.

I have a pair of MKE2s that I run on the plug-in power from a Marantz PMD620.  Works great.  Really minimalist too...
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: jerryfreak on April 12, 2019, 03:50:37 PM
MKE2s confuse me. It seems like there are a number of models and the documentation in on what the difference is,  isn’t all that great
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: beegar on April 12, 2019, 04:24:42 PM
Maybe you were thinking about these?  https://store.lom.audio/collections/microphones-accessories/products/mikrousi
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: aaronji on April 15, 2019, 08:55:06 AM
MKE2s confuse me. It seems like there are a number of models and the documentation in on what the difference is,  isn’t all that great

You're not the only one.  They have made quite a few models and they have also varied over the long time they have been part of the Sennheiser lineup.

The ones I have are 10 mV/Pa and can run to spec on quite low voltages, but I have seen others with completely different specs.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: Ben Turnbull on April 19, 2019, 07:43:00 PM
countryman B3's do alright in PIP on my M10. Not sure of the SPL but I think around 130 sounds close. Low voltage. Lots of termination options.

I've since read 140 dB w/p48 power. 'Not sure it is w/lower volts.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: lpmaskman on April 27, 2019, 06:02:04 AM
Maybe you were thinking about these?  https://store.lom.audio/collections/microphones-accessories/products/mikrousi
Looks promising. Did anyone try these mics? How good are these for recoding loud metal music only using with PIP?
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: mnm207 on April 27, 2019, 01:05:17 PM
There's a thread on the Lom mics including the MikroUsi:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188540.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188540.0)

No one has chimed in regarding loud metal music.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: lpmaskman on April 28, 2019, 06:51:54 AM
That's not much. I e-mailed to the company about the question.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: jerryfreak on April 28, 2019, 01:46:37 PM
It seems like the LOM and other mics are based on the Primo capsule which is commonly available for cheap it’s like one step up from the old Panasonic capsules people used to build mic rigs with (sonic studios dsm etc). It’s got a wide input power range for sure
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: lpmaskman on April 29, 2019, 10:31:04 AM
LOM audio replied and said those mikroUsi mics are not recommended for loud music.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: jerryfreak on May 11, 2019, 09:50:01 PM
Well i was experimenting with my 4061 and measured the voltage of my DAD6001 and DAD4099 phantom>microdot (latter is the same functionally but has a rolloff) with and without a mic attached. Both were 8.1V with no load, but much lower with mic attached. i tested 3 of the "legacy" 4061s and 2 of the "CORE" 4061s. Voltage under load was 2.4-2.5V with the legacy mics and 2.65-2.75 with the CORE series

I also tested my d:vice, which is ~4.95V with no load, but was  ~2.5V under load of legacy 4061s, ~2.725V under load of CORE 4061s.


hmmm. so i decided to try to power CORE 4061s with my A10 on PIP

A10 voltage with no load ~2.8V
with one mic ~2.4V
with 2 mics 2.2-2.3V (for both CORE and legacy 4061s)

i dunno, voltage is a little lower than the official DPA solutions, but sounds fine to me. here is a sample of me holding the two CORE 4061s about 8-12" in front of a monitor played at moderately loud volume (takes a few seconds to get into position, end of track i back up a bit)

https://soundcloud.com/user-760596491/4061-a10

I cant imagine that not working at your average rock show. noise floor might be perceptibly higher, or max SPL might be limited a bit, but again not an issue in many cases. and its perhaps the most diminutive rig out there

further testing:
Tested with Roland R07, 2.4V with legacy 4061 connected:
https://soundcloud.com/user-760596491/4061-r07
(R07 is 2.7-2.8V with CORE 4061s connected)

Tested with Microtrack II, 2.45V with legacy 4061 connected:
https://soundcloud.com/user-760596491/4061-mtii
(MTII is 2.75-2.85V with CORE 4061s connected)


the A10 sample above was with a CORE pair of 4061s, the R07 and MTII tests above were with the legacy versions of the 4061. Im not a huge fan of the MTII (reliability) but both the R07 and MTII seem like a safe bet with voltage very similar to the official DPA powering options

apparently the MMP-G cables that run the full size caps, should work fine with either the microdot adapters and d:vice, ergo, they may also be able to be run from PIP handhelds as well... will know soon. Specs say they only draw 1mA (as opposed to 1.5mA for 406x) so thats a good sign

it seems like the 4061 CORE versions have a slightly lower current draw compared to the legacy versions on every device tested apart from the A10. maybe the A10 has a different voltage/current control strategy and has a more constant voltage over a wider current draw range.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: Gil on May 15, 2019, 04:08:23 PM

https://archive.org/details/cts2019-05-09.flac16

AT943 hypers> DR-2d PIP. You be the judge.
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: Gutbucket on May 16, 2019, 10:54:29 AM
Well i was experimenting..

Betty betty interesting, thanks for this!
Title: Re: decent low-power (PIP) 2 wire mics
Post by: jerryfreak on May 16, 2019, 11:09:19 AM
Well i was experimenting..

Betty betty interesting, thanks for this!

making sure you saw this, mr. bucket

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188246.msg2300046#msg2300046