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Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: Sevoflurane on August 31, 2019, 07:18:37 AM

Title: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Sevoflurane on August 31, 2019, 07:18:37 AM
So, I got this Art USB Phono Plus interface for DAT transfers that will go into my Mac Mini. https://artproaudio.com/product/usb-phono-plus-project-series/ These are one of the newer mac minis, so no optical in. I pretty much ditched my CO2 converter that would work great with my older mac that had an optical in.

Anyways, this interface had a S/PDIF in. Perfect, right? Should be able to hook up my 7-pin to S/PDIF cable. I am getting nothing in terms of sound out of this into audacity. Any thoughts on this? I thought I could use coaxial/SPDIF in the same manner?

My other option is to run the M Audio CO2 converter coax in and then optical out into the phono plus. But that option just seems to excessive?

What I am guessing is that the 7-pin to coax cable is not the same as a SPDIF cable. Even though they look the same? I do have a Tascam DAT deck that I can run coax out and I assume that this will work 100% into the USB interface.

Thanks for reading. I've wanted a USB audio interface for awhile now because I do like to transfer some of my vinyl only albums and EPs. Not to mention can just run my Nak cassette deck right into my computer.

I guess if someone has a better option, I still have a few weeks for a return of this.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: rippleish20 on August 31, 2019, 08:04:07 AM
I had exactly the same problem. All of my earlier Macs had SPDIF ports, which made life easier.


There is a control panel, under Applications/Utilities called Audio MIDI Setup. You have to set the bitrate the same as you have in the program you are recording in. Did you do that?

I am guessing that's the problem, but I have a Zoom U-44 for sale in Yard Sale that I know works for deck > SPDIF > U-44 > USB > MAC (assuming your deck SPDIF works correctly)
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: jefflester on August 31, 2019, 02:13:54 PM
What Sony portable DAT deck (TCD-D8 based on your signature?) and what 7-pin cable? Actual Sony one or some other after market? Is it just a single coax to 7-pin, because those are input cables not output cables.

It's been ages, but I also recall some incompatibility between the Sony coax SPDIF and "real" SPDIF, like the Sony didn't quite meet the standard.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Sevoflurane on August 31, 2019, 02:27:22 PM
What Sony portable DAT deck (TCD-D8 based on your signature?) and what 7-pin cable? Actual Sony one or some other after market? Is it just a single coax to 7-pin, because those are input cables not output cables.

It's been ages, but I also recall some incompatibility between the Sony coax SPDIF and "real" SPDIF, like the Sony didn't quite meet the standard.

I have a D8 with me. But a Tascam DA-20 in storage I hope to get out some day.

The D8 will run with Core-Sound's 7pin > Coax out cable. I've transferred hundreds of tapes with this cable.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: morst on August 31, 2019, 02:56:49 PM
There is a control panel, under Applications/Utilities called Audio MIDI Setup. You have to set the bitrate the same as you have in the program you are recording in. Did you do that?
a Sony 7-pin to Coax cable should be S/Pdif compatible, if not standard. There were "active" and "Passive" versions which Doug Oade would modify so they would have both an input and an output simultaneously. The older machines came with the less-compatible "passive" ones I think.

In AudioMIDI there is a tab for INPUT, be sure that's set to S/PDIF.


EDITED TO NOTE THAT I AM NOT CORRECT HERE. Please see Len's Core Sound tutorial on 7-pin cables, posted below



Core Sound's "7-Pin Bible":
www.core-sound.com/7-pin-coax-blurb/11.php
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Sevoflurane on August 31, 2019, 09:19:36 PM
This is all I am seeing. No choice for input.

I have been trying my damndest with this thing and I am not even seeing any levels through the phono plus?

Note: I am not using the 2ch soundflower. That is just hooked up when I am using HDMI out to my monitor.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Sevoflurane on August 31, 2019, 09:22:16 PM
This is what all is set at. I have even tried 44.1 with no help. This hiss is all I get and not sure what that is coming from.

About to box all this up and send it back and buy a deck to run this stuff in to.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: morst on August 31, 2019, 10:25:16 PM
Yeah I get options with my MOTU 828 Mk II.
The PDF for your ART unit says this, so it ought to work if you can feed it proper S/Pdif that it likes!?


"The S/PDIF In To USB RCA-type connection is a digital input that overrides the Opto In and analog preamp signal connections whenever there is a valid digital signal present that is in S/PDIF format. This digital signal input is routed to the your computer USB interface for S/PDIF to USB connectivity only. Note: You cannot connect S/PDIF to analog or analog to S/PDIF with this product."
https://artproaudio.com/framework/uploads/2018/06/om_usbphonoplusps.pdf (https://artproaudio.com/framework/uploads/2018/06/om_usbphonoplusps.pdf)
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: jerryfreak on September 01, 2019, 01:42:24 AM
Anyways, this interface had a S/PDIF in. Perfect, right?

all computer interfaces should ideally be tested to make sure they dont resample or otherwise process the data, or drop samples due to buffering

most setups ive tested fail at one or the other
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: jerryfreak on September 01, 2019, 01:43:50 AM
I had exactly the same problem. All of my earlier Macs had SPDIF ports, which made life easier.

case in point, ive never seen a mac digital in that didnt resample the data. They sound fine, but unless you look at the data youd never know there are extra steps in that chain
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Sevoflurane on September 01, 2019, 05:38:58 AM
Yeah I get options with my MOTU 828 Mk II.
The PDF for your ART unit says this, so it ought to work if you can feed it proper S/Pdif that it likes!?


"The S/PDIF In To USB RCA-type connection is a digital input that overrides the Opto In and analog preamp signal connections whenever there is a valid digital signal present that is in S/PDIF format. This digital signal input is routed to the your computer USB interface for S/PDIF to USB connectivity only. Note: You cannot connect S/PDIF to analog or analog to S/PDIF with this product."
https://artproaudio.com/framework/uploads/2018/06/om_usbphonoplusps.pdf (https://artproaudio.com/framework/uploads/2018/06/om_usbphonoplusps.pdf)

That's exactly what I thought? I honestly don't think this thing reads from a D8 from a 7-pin > S/PDIF. I am beyond frustrated at this point and went on eBay and bought a Marantz PMD670 for $70. It will get the job done and I can run it right into the recorder with no problem.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: goodcooker on September 01, 2019, 08:48:22 AM

My solution for transfers was a Sound Devices USB Pre the original version. People are letting them go for a song (I got mine for $100 on Reverb) since they think they can only run on 32 bit systems but there is a free driver that is rock solid for 64 bit OS.

Doesn't really answer your question about the ART interface but I have found ART products to be a little iffy except for their excellent SLA amp series.

Using a 670 should work out just fine for you though and keeps your computer free for other stuff.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Len Moskowitz (Core Sound) on September 01, 2019, 12:26:45 PM
Core Sound's "7-Pin Bible":

www.core-sound.com/7-pin-coax-blurb/11.php
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Sevoflurane on September 02, 2019, 10:29:14 AM
Core Sound's "7-Pin Bible":

www.core-sound.com/7-pin-coax-blurb/11.php

Thanks Len. I bought this cable from you almost 15 years ago, still working like a charm.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: EmRR on September 02, 2019, 01:04:59 PM
i've never seen a mac digital in that didnt resample the data. They sound fine, but unless you look at the data youd never know there are extra steps in that chain

Hmm, say more.  I'm not aware of this.  Resample" or "Drift correction" as it's been called within Audio MIDI setup in various OS has a checkbox to allow or disallow resampling to maintain sync with other devices within an aggregate device, that's all I'm aware of. 

I'm predominantly operating with external interfaces (AVB, USB, PCI) which supposedly dictate master clock, so I don't pay much attention to what the SPDIF input does. 

I do recall the rude surprise of authoring DVD's in iMovie with 44K1 audio tracks, it would all play perfectly in iMovie because Quicktime was converting on the fly in the background, but as soon as you authored, audio would be out of sync.   Had to convert audio to 48K and reimport to get it right.   That was the first insight as to what happens in the background with Quicktime as engine for iTunes, iMovie, etc. 
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: Len Moskowitz (Core Sound) on September 02, 2019, 11:05:16 PM

Thanks Len. I bought this cable from you almost 15 years ago, still working like a charm.

Really nice to hear. Thanks for the kind feedback!

This year is Core Sound's 30th birthday - founded in 1989.
Title: Re: Problem with DAT Transfers
Post by: morst on September 03, 2019, 01:33:35 AM

Core Sound's "7-Pin Bible":
www.core-sound.com/7-pin-coax-blurb/11.php
Thank you for the facts!!!
Quote
Again: There are no cables that are active (voltage translating) for output.
This year is Core Sound's 30th birthday - founded in 1989.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY CORE SOUND! CHEERS TO MANY MORE YEARS!!