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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: ace5gt on March 15, 2020, 11:18:15 AM

Title: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: ace5gt on March 15, 2020, 11:18:15 AM
My Setup:
Sony PCM-M10
CA CAFS mics
CA 9200 Preamp
-12 db cable

Years ago I purchased the above setup and only recorded a few shows with it before life got busy and I stopped going to shows.  I want to now get back into taping, but would prefer to minimize the amount of stuff I need shove down my pants to get past security! ;D  I thought about selling my 9200 preamp and getting an Ugly battery box instead.  Is this a good idea?  Sorry, I never fully understood the tech aspect of these rigs, and whether or not I truly need the volume and gain settings provided by the preamp for rock concerts?
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on March 15, 2020, 11:43:06 AM
I've run similar with a battery box (substitute the mics to Countryman B3). No issues.

Here's a recording with the B3 > Church BB > M10 rig (with some post processing):

https://youtu.be/rv914EwZaUI

Ironically I almost got tagged by security going into the venue with this rig for that show...but mostly because I was being careless.
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: vanark on March 15, 2020, 12:28:32 PM
A couple years ago, I ditched my CA-9100 preamp for a UBB and have been happy with the results. No regrets with the change.

CA-11c > UBB > M-10
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: dyneq on March 15, 2020, 01:25:19 PM
IMO, a preamp may make sense if you record quieter genres of music and/or ambience/nature. The reason is that outboard preamps are generally quieter (less hiss), so during quiet passages you wouldn’t hear the noise as much.

For amplified music, a battery box is ideal for me.
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: ilduclo on March 15, 2020, 01:47:05 PM
I record lots of quiet shows using dpa 4061’s to a 9v battery box to an m10. Works just great for me.
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: jerryfreak on March 15, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
switching from an M10 to an A10 will save a lot of space
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: BonoBeats on March 19, 2020, 04:46:35 PM
Haven't found the need for a battery box. The "standard sensitivity" for Naiant XX is quite high (25 mV/Pa); not much gain is needed for rock shows.

I've used a 12v batter box from Sound Professionals for quite some time; this thing is tiny: https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-10

(the mics are rated to 10v, but I have not had any issues pushing them to 12v. Your results may vary.)
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: Gutbucket on March 19, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
My Setup:
Sony PCM-M10
CA CAFS mics
CA 9200 Preamp
-12 db cable

If you need the attenuation cable you probably won't need pre-amp gain and can get away with just a straight battery box / If moving to a battery box, you'll probably want to switch to a non-attenuating cable as well.
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: ace5gt on March 19, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Do I even need a battery box, or can I just run the mics straight into the Line-In of the M10?  If so, what's a good starting point for the gain setting on the M10?
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: aaronji on March 19, 2020, 05:52:04 PM
^ You need to power the mics, which you can't do with an M10's line-in. You could try mic-in with plug-in power on, but that may not provide sufficient juice to the mics for high SPL situations (I am not sure what the power requirements are for CAFS, though).
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: Walstib62 on March 19, 2020, 08:26:04 PM
^ You need to power the mics, which you can't do with an M10's line-in. You could try mic-in with plug-in power on, but that may not provide sufficient juice to the mics for high SPL situations (I am not sure what the power requirements are for CAFS, though).


M10 only provides 3 volts PIP. Not enough for mic power.
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: aaronji on March 19, 2020, 08:58:03 PM
What do CAFS require? I couldn't find specs (as is typical for Church)...
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: BonoBeats on March 19, 2020, 09:29:47 PM
What do CAFS require? I couldn't find specs (as is typical for Church)...

Ideally, 5-9v. They'll run on 3v PIP, but it affects the handling of high SPLs, raises the noise floor, and possibly increases distortion. Best to run with the box.

Gutbucket as usual brings up good points; if you need a -12db attenuating cable, you don't need preamp gain.
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: aaronji on March 19, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
Ideally, 5-9v. They'll run on 3v PIP, but it affects the handling of high SPLs, raises the noise floor, and possibly increases distortion. Best to run with the box.

Just out of curiosity: where did you find that info? I have never been able to find decent specs for Church mics and, sometimes, even his own posts have been contradictory.
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: BonoBeats on March 19, 2020, 11:37:47 PM
Ideally, 5-9v. They'll run on 3v PIP, but it affects the handling of high SPLs, raises the noise floor, and possibly increases distortion. Best to run with the box.

Just out of curiosity: where did you find that info? I have never been able to find decent specs for Church mics and, sometimes, even his own posts have been contradictory.

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=148749.0
Title: Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
Post by: aaronji on March 20, 2020, 12:17:50 PM
^ Thanks! Chris should put this information (and other specs) on his website. It would be a lot easier than digging up nearly decade old posts.