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Author Topic: B9Audio microphone discussion  (Read 21705 times)

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Offline heathen

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B9Audio microphone discussion
« on: August 28, 2018, 06:58:07 PM »
These mics were mentioned in the another thread, and I couldn't find any previous discussion of them so I figured why not start a dedicated thread.

Web site: https://b9audio.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/B9audio/ (there is some interesting info, including several samples, posted here)

The CM180 in particular looks interesting.  It appears to use a single-diaphragm figure 8 capsule on a "CMP1" preamp body.  At only 82.5 mm long, it's relatively compact.  There are some other interesting things, but some of it involves digging through their Facebook posts.  Hopefully the web site gets organized better. 
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Offline Walstib62

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 07:10:30 PM »
b9 audio sample:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMgKfS-qnW6_467bGzRpCjQ

I'm interested to learn more about these.

Online muj

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 04:26:11 AM »


i use the csm88 as blumlein par and use a Pearl ELM-C as "mid" mic, results are outstanding. blumlein is the truth

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 09:18:25 AM »
Quoted from the thread heathen mentions in his OP here-


starting to love this one...
^^^^
What kind of mic is that muj?
A search turned up B9 Audio- https://b9audio.com/. Looks to be a Chinese microphone manufacturer emulating Schoeps. 

Their microphones look attractive, the published response graphs look good and the samples on the site sound nice, but not much info there otherwise.  Here's a cut-sheet on the Blumlien stereo microphone muj appears to be using- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ccqt2plq_835666.pdf

In addition to that and various cardioids, omnis, a supercard and and shotgun, there is a native B-format ambisonic microphone and an interesting emulation of the Schoeps KFM360 called the VR Ball- https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/48a8cb31-a4e2-44b6-a8d3-b3e77664ad9f/downloads/1ci1clsft_157637.pdf.

It is similar to KFM360 but includes the addition of a 2nd pair of fig-8's, vertically-oriented in addition to the horizontally-oriented 8's coincidently arranged with the flush-mounted omnis on either side of the sphere, as well as a front-center microphone position which apparently may be swapped between various polar patterns.  Making a total channel count of 7 recorded channels rather than 4 if all microphones are in use.  This one is interesting since the KFM360 has long represented a holy grail microphone for me (which is actually attainable, if not by myself), which has influenced my thinking about live music recording and the development of my oddball mic techniques. I dreamed up pretty much this same combination a few times over the years while thinking about that stuff and it's interesting to see such a flight of fancy appear as an actual product!

Hoping muj will chime in with more info and details on the qualities of the Blumlien stereo mic..
Taiwanese Company..big difference ( Taiwan has a western approach to QC)

The mic is only 830 usd..but they sound scaringly like schoeps...

I use mine With a Pearl ELM-C as a "mid" mic… i.e adjust the Level mid channel post Production, to correct phase or add more body to sound..etc

That CM180 fig-8 is intriguing to me. 
And curious about the supercards and subcards.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 09:25:10 AM »


i use the csm88 as blumlein par and use a Pearl ELM-C as "mid" mic, results are outstanding. blumlein is the truth
I was gonna chime in that the B9Audio mic line is interesting, especially the fig 8 caps and the VR ball variation.
BUT the bolded segment above caught my attention as I too feel blumlein is the truth   ;D
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 10:41:16 AM »
Oftimes we can't handle the truth!

A more hyper-realist take seems the fictionalized-truth we tend to desire from further back in the room, yet for what muj is using it for, truth = beauty.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:20:33 AM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 10:59:36 AM »
Jumping right into analysis of the VR ball array.  With heathen's permission, I'm copying here a bit of PM discussion we've been having about the VR ball microphone this morning-

I didn't want to further derail the "holy grail mics" thread with this, but I figured you might be interested.  They've shared a VR ball recording that you can download the raw output and mess with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ExjEeqM74&feature=youtu.be (look in the description for the link).

Cool, thanks.

Quote
Here's more details from their Facebook page:

Use 180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav as the fundamental for all channel and...
^ That's the two flush-mounted omnis (corresponding to the YouTube video audio)
Quote
Front stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav
Back stereo: Mix with [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav
^this is what the KFM360 does, by Mid/Side matrixing each omni with a coincident forward facing 8
Quote
Top stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
Front, Up stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
Rear, Up stereo: Mix with [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
^This is a direct substitution of the upward facing 8's for the forward facing ones, producing up/down facing patterns rather than front/back facing patterns
Quote
Front, Low stereo: Mix with [in phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
Rear, Low stereo: Mix with [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav and [invert phase] 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav
^This sums the forward and upward facing 8's prior to Mid/Side matrixing with the omnis, producing a fig-8 pointing +45 degrees above (or -45 degrees below) the horizontal plane, and thus patterns facing either way along that diagonal axis when matrixed with the omnis.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 11:14:10 AM »
and this..  an ambisonic decode option for the VR ball also described on the facebook page-

Quote
Decode to WXYZ, VR format B:
W = Sum 180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav
X = Sum 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav
Y = S channel of 180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav (Left to Right difference)
Z = Sum 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_V.wav

^
That ambisonic transcode option is interesting, I wonder how well it works.  Ambisonic theoreticians will hate this as all the derived ambisonic B-format component channels are sums of two channels spaced by the diameter of the sphere, making it mathematically a total mess.  It also uses the difference signal of the two omnis to produce the Y signal bi-directional component, which will behave differently from the X and Z bi-directional components produced by the (summed) fig-8 mics.  Acoustically all this will produce acoustic spatial aliasing which varies with frequency, but perhaps in practice it works out okay and sounds alright. 

What I think would be far more interesting than trying to use it as a substitute single-point ambisonic mic would be using it as two separate sphere-baffled single-plane ambisonic microphones.  The analogy being this- the KFM360 expands on head-sphere-baffled omnis by turning the two flush-mounted omnis into two Mid/Side arrangements.  The VR ball expands that further by turning those Mid/Side arrangements into essentially two DMS double-mid/side arrangements (or more accurately- mid/double-side arrangements) which can be manipulated as two single-plane ambisonic microphones, sphere-baffled from each other.  That eliminates the spatial aliasing problems as all the Mid/Side-ambisonic summing is of close-to coincident-capsules on the same side of the sphere. 

One could then vary polar-pattern and angle of virtual microphones on either side of the sphere in the X and Z dimensions.  The Y dimension pattern would not be controllable directly but is influenced by the sphere-mounting and sideways orientation of the omnis.  Actually one could try using the difference-signal of the baffled omnis to gain some control over Y (as they describe deriving Y for B-format), without compromising X and Z in order to get something closer to two fully periphonic ambisonic microphone positions, separated by the sphere baffle in the middle.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:21:33 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 11:18:43 AM »
Feel free to ignore the obtuse geek-out I just posted above concerning the VR ball microphone array if it reads like Greek to you.  I hope that doesn't derail the thread and discussion of B9 microphones which other tapers might actually end up trying! 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:23:39 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Online muj

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2018, 12:10:24 PM »
The VR ball is very interesting, I have the BS-3d from The Audio  (  couldn't find a KMF360 used on the market), and it makes the binaural sphere concept more flexible, sound gets more "real" by adding the "reverb" from the fig 8s

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2018, 03:51:03 PM »
^ Earlier, I was listening to the individual VR ball mic pair files linked in the Youtube description with just that in mind.  This is fun and interesting and I recommend anyone reading who is interested to give it a listen. You don't need to do any mixing, just download and listen comparatively to the 3 stereo WAV files from that session, switching back and forth between them.  What you will be listening to is a comparison between a pair of flush-mounted sphere-baffled omnis, a pair of sphere-baffled forward facing figure-8s, and a pair of sphere-baffled upward facing figure-8s.

To do so go to the YouTube page- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ExjEeqM74&feature=youtu.be and look in the description for the link to the WAV file set from the a VR Ball recoded when the video was made.  Download the three WAV files (ignore the mp3 which contains a piano duet recording from a different session).  Load the three files into your player and put on your headphones.

180628_VR_Ball_12_Binaural.wav is the flush mounted omnis by themselves, which is the same as the audio heard on the video.  Listen to that one first.  In particular, listen to the sound of the snare drum positioned directly in front of the recording position.  Ignore the other instrumentation for the time being.

Next listen to 180628_VR_Ball_34_Figure8_H.wav.  This is the pair of sphere-baffled forward facing figure-8s.  Notice the difference in the snare sound.  There are less early reflections from the side walls and less overall reverb heard on the snare. The figure 8s are directly facing the position of the drummer making the snare sounds more direct. The inverse polarity back lobs of the fig-8's pick up reflections from the back of the room, but far less from the side walls, ceiling and floor where the bi-directional pattern becomes less sensitive. 

Then listen to 180628_VR_Ball_56_Figure8_V.wav. This is the pair of sphere-baffled upward-facing figure-8s.  Notice the difference in the snare sound, now far more distant and diffuse sounding because the least-sensitive portion of the fig-8 pattern is facing the snare drum position (and also facing the sidewalls and the back of the room, reducing sensitivity to the early reflections off them).  The most-sensitive portions of the pattern are facing towards the ceiling and floor, such that what is heard primarily are the reflections off the floor and ceiling along with the essentially the same amount of diffuse room verb as was heard from the forward facing 8's. 

It can be very informative going back a forth a few times between these WAVs comparing how this change of directional pattern effects the sound of the snare drum with all other variables remaining constant.  If we were to matrix the omni and figure-8 file as is done with the KFM360, we'd further increase the ability to isolate or reject the direct sound of the snare by producing virtual cardioid or supercardioid patterns facing directly forward at it (or rearwards away from it) instead of figure-8 patterns that are equally sensitive in both directions.

Of course it's also interesting to compare other aspects such as the difference in pickup of the violin off to one side, and the low-frequency extension difference of the omnis verses the fig-8s.  However, I think the center-forward position of the snare drum makes for a really good example of what this directivity enhancement of adding Mid/Side matrixed bi-directionals to the omnis can do.

I wish they would have recorded the front-of-sphere-mounted cardioid and included that in the file set as well.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline pohaku

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2018, 07:03:25 PM »
There are pretty positive comments on the blumlein model over on GS.  Sounds like something worth checking out.
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Offline Chuck

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 03:33:32 PM »
Is there a price sheet somewhere? Just trying to get an idea of how much they cost in US $$.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 04:56:54 PM »
The website shows pricing on the website homepage for the Blumlein stereo mic, the fig-8 and the short gun (currently $800, $500, & $600 USD respectively + shipping).  I found downloadable response graphs for others but don't see pricing on them.
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Offline Chuck

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 06:34:50 PM »
Thanks Gb!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: Microtech Gefell M300, AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements, CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and mod-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 06:41:27 PM »
No prob.  There may be more info on the others on their FB page, but I don't have much patience for FB.
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2018, 02:52:15 AM »
800 USD for the CSM88, but sounds like a 2400 USD...get one b4 a dealer network develops and price goes up 2-3x

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Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2018, 06:46:30 AM »
B9audio CSM88 now flown in the National Concert Hall in Taipei, Taiwan. It replaced the Neumann USM69 at about the same spot. USM69 is certainly legendary icon and perform extremely well. The concern with USM69 is the size that always block someone when a larger ensemble performing and video camera is taking the shot.
Low profile is only one of the benefit of CSM88, highest sonic quality is essential for this grand concert hall and CSM88 exhibit highest quality apparently.
I compared CSM88 and the nearby MSTC64 during an orchestra rehearsal. it is very interesting that the MSTC64 is one of my favorite, but in this case, CSM88 is more charming with space sound. I thought it might answer my puzzle why some many experienced recording engineer like to use Blumlein stereo over ORTF stereo.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2018, 04:37:21 PM »
Thanks for joining the discussion!

I compared CSM88 and the nearby MSTC64 during an orchestra rehearsal. it is very interesting that the MSTC64 is one of my favorite, but in this case, CSM88 is more charming with space sound. I thought it might answer my puzzle why some many experienced recording engineer like to use Blumlein stereo over ORTF stereo.

Hard to beat Blumlein for good translation of ambience plus holographic imaging, assuming it can be placed in the perfect spot in a good sounding room.  ORTF is more universal and far less demanding of excellent acoustics and placement, yet the compromises which provide that wider applicability are just that- compromises.  This is only my opinion of course.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2018, 05:08:43 PM »
B9Audio,

If I may be so bold, please consider the possibility of producing a Mid/Side stereo microphone by combination of your CM150F supercardioid and CM180 bi-directional capsules in a single-body, end-address microphone.  That would be attractive for live music recordists by essentially producing a simple and compact microphone which produces a virtual crossed-hypercardioid pair upon Mid/Side decode, which I've sometimes refer to as "forward-biased Blumlein" around here as it provides many of the same sonic attributes, yet with just enough additional forward focus and increased stereo recording angle to have much greater practical application in many cases.  I suspect such a microphone might also be attractive as a light-weight stereo option for boom-operators.

I'm not sure if your capsules are modular and detach from the amplifiers or not.  If so it would be great to be able to switch the mid capsules between between omni, cardioid, supercardioid, your CM170 short-gun, or even a second bi-directional capsule for Blumlein.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2018, 05:44:16 PM »
B9Audio,

If I may be so bold, please consider the possibility of producing a Mid/Side stereo microphone by combination of your CM150F supercardioid and CM180 bi-directional capsules in a single-body, end-address microphone.  That would be attractive for live music recordists by essentially producing a simple and compact microphone which produces a virtual crossed-hypercardioid pair upon Mid/Side decode, which I've sometimes refer to as "forward-biased Blumlein" around here as it provides many of the same sonic attributes, yet with just enough additional forward focus and increased stereo recording angle to have much greater practical application in many cases.  I suspect such a microphone might also be attractive as a light-weight stereo option for boom-operators.

I'm not sure if your capsules are modular and detach from the amplifiers or not.  If so it would be great to be able to switch the mid capsules between between omni, cardioid, supercardioid, your CM170 short-gun, or even a second bi-directional capsule for Blumlein.

Being able to switch the mid capsules would make that a very, very cool design.  Does anything like that, with switchable mid capsules, in a single stereo mic currently exist?
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2018, 02:44:10 AM »
MS mic would be nice :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy:

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2018, 05:53:26 AM »
B9Audio,

If I may be so bold, please consider the possibility of producing a Mid/Side stereo microphone by combination of your CM150F supercardioid and CM180 bi-directional capsules in a single-body, end-address microphone.  That would be attractive for live music recordists by essentially producing a simple and compact microphone which produces a virtual crossed-hypercardioid pair upon Mid/Side decode, which I've sometimes refer to as "forward-biased Blumlein" around here as it provides many of the same sonic attributes, yet with just enough additional forward focus and increased stereo recording angle to have much greater practical application in many cases.  I suspect such a microphone might also be attractive as a light-weight stereo option for boom-operators.

I'm not sure if your capsules are modular and detach from the amplifiers or not.  If so it would be great to be able to switch the mid capsules between between omni, cardioid, supercardioid, your CM170 short-gun, or even a second bi-directional capsule for Blumlein.

Interesting idea. When planning CSM88, there're some following plan:
CSM44, side address, XY cardioid stereo. Very good for spot, not suitable for main stereo. (Too narrow)
CSM78, MS stereo shotgun, end address certainly.
CSM58, MS stereo, not decided end address or side address.
CSM48, MS stereo, not decided end address or side address.
CSM28..... kind of puzzle idea..... Omni center..... or..... can it be a variable directional mic when facing omni and figure-8 on the same direction? User can get any kind of directivity, and it will be a true omni and figure-8, not back to back cardioid.... Especially the omni one, the low frequency response will not be affected by distance.

However, all above is not a exchangeable M channel, instead they will share the same stereo pre-stage (CSMP-1).

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2018, 11:45:21 AM »
As a professional grade MS microphone it will be preferable to have Mid and Side output directly.  You might consider offering an optional MS>LR matrix adapter in a short amplifier body which would be inserted between the the microphone and mic-cable if direct LR output is desired, as that approach would eliminate the complexity of housing a switch and matrix circuitry in the microphone amplifier body while providing the same functionality.

End-address is the prefered format for the type of live music recording most folks at Taperssection are doing (and I presume would also be prefered for boom use), because that orientation is easier to aim appropriately with a windscreen in place and can be considerably less visually intrusive atop a microphone stand.  However, side address achieves closer coincidence in the stereo plane and may be preferred for studio and spot use.  I'm not sure to what extent the offset between the capsules in end-address orientation actually affects the hf polar patterns and resulting sound in a practical sense.  You probably have a better sense of the significance or lack of if of that.

Quote
CSM28..... kind of puzzle idea..... Omni center..... or..... can it be a variable directional mic when facing omni and figure-8 on the same direction? User can get any kind of directivity, and it will be a true omni and figure-8, not back to back cardioid.... Especially the omni one, the low frequency response will not be affected by distance.

Yes, some very interesting applications with that one.

Such a microphone could be quite useful in the multichannel array techniques I tend to champion around here, which are simple enough to be setup using a single microphone stand.  The approach builds upon a basic foundation of a spaced pair of omnis plus a center directional microphone.  One of the first improvements on this the substitution of a coincident stereo pair for the single center microphone.  An end-address CSM78 or CSM58 would work nicely in that position in most cases.

A step further would be substitution of pair of CSM28 for the spaced omnis, with the end-address omni Mids facing directly outwards to either side, such that the omnis are pointed 180 degrees away from one another and the fig-8s are facing fore/aft.  In that configuration the microphones are setup as sideways-facing end-address Mid/Side pairs, but would be used more like the variable-pattern technique you describe, providing front/back pattern control over the omni pair.  The recordest gains greater control over the direct/reverberant pickup ratio in the spaced omni pair, and can adjust that balance to taste after the recording has been made.

In total, that's three Mid/Side microphones feeding 6 recorded channels, providing control over the coincident stereo spread across the center of playback image in combination with control over the nature of the ambient pickup from the wide omnis.  This relatively simple setup is also leverageable for surround by forming a rear-facing, wide-spaced cardioid pair from the omnis, subsequently routed to the surround channels.  This is somewhat similar to your VR ball microphone, excluding Z-axis and substituting the wider A-B omni spacing for a spherical baffle.

Interchangeable Mid capsules would make these microphones fantastically flexible and attractive, and would be a unique feature as far as I'm aware, but is obviously only applicable if your system is designed as such.  I don't see the lack of that feature as being a problem as long as the pricing for individual complete microphones remains attractive.

Thanks for the ear and best of luck moving forward!
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2018, 10:00:06 PM »
As a professional grade MS microphone it will be preferable to have Mid and Side output directly.  You might consider offering an optional MS>LR matrix adapter in a short amplifier body which would be inserted between the the microphone and mic-cable if direct LR output is desired, as that approach would eliminate the complexity of housing a switch and matrix circuitry in the microphone amplifier body while providing the same functionality.

Agree, direct MS is the way to go. Since the amateur market is crowded, and all the professional gear got MS matrix already. I'll save my time, and provide other more unique solution.

Quote
End-address is the prefered format for the type of live music recording most folks at Taperssection are doing (and I presume would also be prefered for boom use), because that orientation is easier to aim appropriately with a windscreen in place and can be considerably less visually intrusive atop a microphone stand.  However, side address achieves closer coincidence in the stereo plane and may be preferred for studio and spot use.  I'm not sure to what extent the offset between the capsules in end-address orientation actually affects the hf polar patterns and resulting sound in a practical sense.  You probably have a better sense of the significance or lack of if of that.

Yes, I think the same. Easier to point the mic with end address capsule. Since the on-axis got the most significant time offset at about 15-20 mm, and figure-8 got minimum response at this direction. It maybe quote ok for most of the spectrum. Certainly not perfect for perfectionist, but there're still combination solution in that case. 

Quote
Such a microphone could be quite useful in the multichannel array techniques I tend to champion around here, which are simple enough to be setup using a single microphone stand.  The approach builds upon a basic foundation of a spaced pair of omnis plus a center directional microphone.  One of the first improvements on this the substitution of a coincident stereo pair for the single center microphone.  An end-address CSM78 or CSM58 would work nicely in that position in most cases.

A step further would be substitution of pair of CSM28 for the spaced omnis, with the end-address omni Mids facing directly outwards to either side, such that the omnis are pointed 180 degrees away from one another and the fig-8s are facing fore/aft.  In that configuration the microphones are setup as sideways-facing end-address Mid/Side pairs, but would be used more like the variable-pattern technique you describe, providing front/back pattern control over the omni pair.  The recordest gains greater control over the direct/reverberant pickup ratio in the spaced omni pair, and can adjust that balance to taste after the recording has been made.

In total, that's three Mid/Side microphones feeding 6 recorded channels, providing control over the coincident stereo spread across the center of playback image in combination with control over the nature of the ambient pickup from the wide omnis.  This relatively simple setup is also leverageable for surround by forming a rear-facing, wide-spaced cardioid pair from the omnis, subsequently routed to the surround channels.  This is somewhat similar to your VR ball microphone, excluding Z-axis and substituting the wider A-B omni spacing for a spherical baffle.

I read the post, but cannot find the attached PDF [>>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<]. Not sure I fully understand your setup.

Quote
Interchangeable Mid capsules would make these microphones fantastically flexible and attractive, and would be a unique feature as far as I'm aware, but is obviously only applicable if your system is designed as such.  I don't see the lack of that feature as being a problem as long as the pricing for individual complete microphones remains attractive.

It is very interesting, I will look into this and it could be done.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2018, 10:48:02 AM »
I read the post, but cannot find the attached PDF [>>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<]. Not sure I fully understand your setup.

If you follow that link it should take you to a particular post in the Oddball Microphone Techniques thread (pt1). I just edited the link, and it now appears to be working here.  At the bottom of that post you will find links to a little PDF booklet in several sections which graphically illustrates the approach, which is more of a generalized architecture rather than any singular setup.  The booklet is designed to provide an overview of that architecture, in addition to the suggested progression as recorded channel count increases from 3 up to 8 or more channels.

Both of the setups I described in my previous post here are included there- The 4 channel variant using a directional Mid/Side pair in the center between spaced omnis is shown on page 2.  The 6 channel variant I describe which also turns the spaced omnis into front/back facing Mid/Side pairs is shown at the bottom of page 5.

In general, the intent of this architecture is to provide increased control over direct/reverberant balance by optimizing separate portions of the array for each of those aspects, providing the recordist some degree of control over that vital balance at mixdown in such a way that they combine well without conflicts. The higher channel count versions provide additional control over center imaging and early reflections from the sides via the addition of the Optimum-Cardioid-Triangle-like (OCT) arrangement using sideways facing supercards.

The setup I'm currently using is the 6 channel variant shown at the top of page 5, which uses a 4-way diamond-shaped supercardioid arrangement in the center between spaced omnis.  This might be described as something of a Double OCT arrangement between spaced omnis or as OCT surround except using more widely spaced omnis and only a single rear-facing dedicated ambience/surround microphone instead of a pair.

I currently use spherical attachments on the wide omnis to provide some control of their hf directionality depending on how they are aimed.  I hope to experiment next with the 8 channel variant on the bottom of page 6, which turns the spaced omnis into front/back facing M/S pairs, further increasing direct/reverberant control and providing additional options for feeding surround channels.
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2018, 01:47:19 AM »
Recorded with B9audio VR Ball, including 2 x CM120F, 4 x CM180. Pseude direction for stereo mix: Front Upward biased.
Basic CM120F pair, binaural setup, added with CM180 pair, horizontal, and CM180 vertical pair at -4dB related to omni pair.
So that is kind of a pair of omni-cardioid pointing a little to front and upward.
Taipei Male Choir, B9audio VR Ball
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 01:53:09 AM by b9audio »

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2018, 10:58:08 AM »
Lovely!

For those watching, the VR Ball can be seen in the more distant shot at the 1:41 mark, hanging above the ORTF microphone and what looks to be an Neumann SM 69 which can be seen in the closer shots as well.

With regards to the virtual output being, as you describe it, "kind of a pair of omni-cardioid pointing a little to front and upward" with respect to the orientation of the VR Ball itself- Was the VR Ball oriented so as to be facing directly forward or was it angled downward somewhat?  This is difficult to discern in the video.

If horizontal, the mix choice of upward bias is interesting.  Most folks might presume a downward bias would be most appropriate, pointing the virtual cardioid-like patterns downward toward the the choir below and to the front.  I expect that adjustment of the upward/downward bias primarily affects the resulting direct/reverberant balance in the recording, biasing towards a slightly more reverberant balance as the virtual patterns are tilted upwards.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2018, 09:20:07 PM »
With regards to the virtual output being, as you describe it, "kind of a pair of omni-cardioid pointing a little to front and upward" with respect to the orientation of the VR Ball itself- Was the VR Ball oriented so as to be facing directly forward or was it angled downward somewhat?  This is difficult to discern in the video.

No, don't have to orient the VR Ball with any tilt. Keep it at the center of the event. So you have horizontal data, vertical data, and global stereo data. Decode it in post: Add any amount of horizontal, or vertical data, or combined with any ratio, you can change the virtual stereo microphone orientation. It is not to achieve orientation, it is for the recording engineer/producer to choose the sound space as he/she wish. And certainly there is the virtual stereo microphone can be described to reflect the mix result.

Quote
If horizontal, the mix choice of upward bias is interesting.  Most folks might presume a downward bias would be most appropriate, pointing the virtual cardioid-like patterns downward toward the the choir below and to the front.  I expect that adjustment of the upward/downward bias primarily affects the resulting direct/reverberant balance in the recording, biasing towards a slightly more reverberant balance as the virtual patterns are tilted upwards.

Yes, it is the choice for direct/reverb mix. In this case, you don't have to add reverb in the post, you've got the real reverb at your disposal.
And you also avoid someone pointing at your microphone said: You're pointing to the wrong direction.

In addition, the mix also change PF/Choir ratio. If chose only Omni+V Fig8 Downward. PF become the dominant part over choir.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 09:28:32 PM by b9audio »

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2018, 07:45:35 AM »
These mics look really nice, and the samples sound excellent.    Even better, we have the manufacturer on board here.    Thank you!!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2018, 09:42:19 AM »
Thank you for that description.  The VR Ball array provides quite powerful post-production flexibility which works especially well for that application.  Really nice.

"And you also avoid someone pointing at your microphone said: You're pointing to the wrong direction."
^
Some may think this is in jest, and perhaps it is.  But I actually get this reaction regularly with my OMT setups featuring multiple microphones pointing in various directions away from the source and typically just one pointed directly at it.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2018, 09:10:56 PM »
First time 7 channel setup, VR Ball.
Addtional to the 2 Omni and 4 Fig-8, there is a open cardioid at the nose position. Connection done with 2 XLR-10 pin socket and cable.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2018, 09:22:21 PM »
Going to have to arrive a half-hour early to the show for setup  :bigsmile: ;D
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2018, 11:13:15 PM »
Going to have to arrive a half-hour early to the show for setup  :bigsmile: ;D

About the same as usual....
Prepared with 4-channel, single plug cables helps a lot.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2018, 05:46:07 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+T great cabling!
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2018, 09:29:41 AM »
First time 7 channel setup, VR Ball.
Addtional to the 2 Omni and 4 Fig-8, there is a open cardioid at the nose position.

I'm intrigued about the open cardioid at the front of the ball.  This arrangement (without the fig-8s) is quite similar to some baffled L/C/R and L/C/R/S setups I use, except the baffle is not spherical and the center microphone is another flush-mounted omni.

If you don't mind a few questions-
How much does the presence of the ball immediately behind the open cardioid capsule effect its pickup pattern?
Have you tried other pickup patterns in that position such as supercardioid or omni?

I'd like to hear some samples with and without the center microphone if you have them available.

Thanks.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2018, 08:55:53 PM »
I'm intrigued about the open cardioid at the front of the ball.  This arrangement (without the fig-8s) is quite similar to some baffled L/C/R and L/C/R/S setups I use, except the baffle is not spherical and the center microphone is another flush-mounted omni.

If you don't mind a few questions-
How much does the presence of the ball immediately behind the open cardioid capsule effect its pickup pattern?
Have you tried other pickup patterns in that position such as supercardioid or omni?

I'd like to hear some samples with and without the center microphone if you have them available.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, this recording cannot be shared. I will share in the future when I have the right one.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2018, 10:19:32 PM »
I'm intrigued about the open cardioid at the front of the ball.  This arrangement (without the fig-8s) is quite similar to some baffled L/C/R and L/C/R/S setups I use, except the baffle is not spherical and the center microphone is another flush-mounted omni.

If you don't mind a few questions-
How much does the presence of the ball immediately behind the open cardioid capsule effect its pickup pattern?
Have you tried other pickup patterns in that position such as supercardioid or omni?

I'd like to hear some samples with and without the center microphone if you have them available.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, this recording cannot be shared. I will share in the future when I have the right one.

Not even a lossy .mp3..?  Never groveled before, but this might be interesting to hear.
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2018, 11:38:35 AM »
No worries and no rush.  Will be very interested to hear it when you do have something you can share.  Thanks for your presence here at TS. 
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2018, 12:32:11 PM »
CSM88 to pick up Steinway D274 tonight.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2018, 08:52:07 PM »
sexy


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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2018, 05:20:38 AM »
The piano is an aged Yamaha G3.
B9audio CSM88 piano sound sample
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 05:22:18 AM by b9audio »

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2018, 06:13:49 AM »
in that picture, the mic looks like it's facing backwards?    Recording out of phase?

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2018, 10:58:30 PM »
in that picture, the mic looks like it's facing backwards?    Recording out of phase?

Since it is a 2-part unit, microphone is align with the capsule part. The pre-stage part cannot be align perfectly with the capsule part.
There will be a XY version with 2 cardioid CMS44 in the future, share the same pre-stage.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2018, 11:53:19 AM »
I'm down for a card stereo mic
needin some fishhead music!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2018, 09:33:04 PM »
I'm down for a card stereo mic

It is suitable for solo instrument, smaller such as strings, wind instruments, guitar... or for sound reinforcement.
For larger scale instrument or ensemble, such as piano, drum set..., CSM88, Blumlein stereo is more suitable.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2018, 02:18:13 PM »
Ordered a pair a hypers last night.  Fingers crossed I dig them.  All sounds good I'm deff in for there wide card and shot gun caps.  Will post more when I receive them.  Ed
needin some fishhead music!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2018, 02:25:33 PM »
Ordered a pair a hypers last night.  Fingers crossed I dig them.  All sounds good I'm deff in for there wide card and shot gun caps.  Will post more when I receive them.  Ed

I'm really curious to hear how these sound.  Please post a heads up here when you get a chance to share a recording made with the hypers!
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2018, 07:55:22 PM »
Ordered a pair a hypers last night.  Fingers crossed I dig them.  All sounds good I'm deff in for there wide card and shot gun caps.  Will post more when I receive them.  Ed
Thank you, hope you like them. Super cardioid and shotgun are very popular for the video/film audio. Wide card or omni card are popular for the music recording/live sound.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2018, 03:45:24 AM »
Ordered a pair a hypers last night.  Fingers crossed I dig them.  All sounds good I'm deff in for there wide card and shot gun caps.  Will post more when I receive them.  Ed

I'm really curious to hear how these sound.  Please post a heads up here when you get a chance to share a recording made with the hypers!


My CSM88 is spectacular, ran it in Brussels last weekend. The hypers are just as good..

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2018, 08:30:10 AM »
Let's hear some samples!
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2018, 04:21:58 AM »
This design is going to answer the demand for MS with exchangeable Mid mic, or for XY stereo.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2018, 06:48:21 AM »
Ordered a pair a hypers last night.  Fingers crossed I dig them.  All sounds good I'm deff in for there wide card and shot gun caps.  Will post more when I receive them.  Ed

^
Did you order the side address super cards (CM150VF) or the CM150F?
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2018, 01:44:35 PM »
Ordered a pair a hypers last night.  Fingers crossed I dig them.  All sounds good I'm deff in for there wide card and shot gun caps.  Will post more when I receive them.  Ed
Thank you, hope you like them. Super cardioid and shotgun are very popular for the video/film audio. Wide card or omni card are popular for the music recording/live sound.

Thanks so much for being here and contributing.

Just so you know to whom your speaking, many members here are very knowledgeable about the intended uses for a wide variety of microphones.

Very few of us, however are doing film audio or studio recording.

Most of us record concerts from a distance.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2018, 02:07:59 PM »
"Most of us record concerts from a distance."

And that is what makes PA-amplified concert recording in particular and the methods used to do it unique in comparison to most other forms of audio recording.  The standard approaches to audio recording as typically done, and the situations to which they apply, are actually a rather small subset of how most amplified concert tapers operate - sort of the exception to the rule.

I may be making a trip to Taiwan sometime in the coming year or so to visit a close friend, and if possible I would be very interested in visiting your facility.  However, I certainly don't wish to be an imposition.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2018, 07:56:15 PM »
Ordered a pair a hypers last night.  Fingers crossed I dig them.  All sounds good I'm deff in for there wide card and shot gun caps.  Will post more when I receive them.  Ed
Thank you, hope you like them. Super cardioid and shotgun are very popular for the video/film audio. Wide card or omni card are popular for the music recording/live sound.

Thanks so much for being here and contributing.

Just so you know to whom your speaking, many members here are very knowledgeable about the intended uses for a wide variety of microphones.

Very few of us, however are doing film audio or studio recording.

Most of us record concerts from a distance.

Thank you, and it is nice to talk to and learn from you the professional that really understand microphones.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2018, 07:58:37 PM »
"Most of us record concerts from a distance."

And that is what makes PA-amplified concert recording in particular and the methods used to do it unique in comparison to most other forms of audio recording.  The standard approaches to audio recording as typically done, and the situations to which they apply, are actually a rather small subset of how most amplified concert tapers operate - sort of the exception to the rule.

I may be making a trip to Taiwan sometime in the coming year or so to visit a close friend, and if possible I would be very interested in visiting your facility.  However, I certainly don't wish to be an imposition.

Welcome to Taiwan. I may also going to east coast mid of Feb to early March. In case anyone is close by, I can bring most of the microphones with me and show them to you.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2018, 08:30:28 AM »
Did a PF sound test for XY configuration. A pair of B9audio CV4 capsule. WAV download link listed in the video description.
https://youtu.be/UPVnIKEV0lk

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2018, 07:53:54 PM »
Working on a stereo kit, it is based on a pair of direct cable out pre-stage, CMP1C. Matched with a stereo bar and various capsules, it can be XY/MS/ORTF/NOS/AB, even side address cardioid ORTF which is so interesting when compared with the end address cardioid ORTF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41BfwWjhUxg&list=PLLHaojJAUa7ocszleoEroijt6HEipjMV4&index=6

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2018, 11:44:58 AM »
"Most of us record concerts from a distance."

And that is what makes PA-amplified concert recording in particular and the methods used to do it unique in comparison to most other forms of audio recording.  The standard approaches to audio recording as typically done, and the situations to which they apply, are actually a rather small subset of how most amplified concert tapers operate - sort of the exception to the rule.

I may be making a trip to Taiwan sometime in the coming year or so to visit a close friend, and if possible I would be very interested in visiting your facility.  However, I certainly don't wish to be an imposition.

Welcome to Taiwan. I may also going to east coast mid of Feb to early March. In case anyone is close by, I can bring most of the microphones with me and show them to you.
I know several of us are East coasters; kindms and I are in the NYC area. As your plans get firmed up let us know where on the East coast you will be and maybe we can arrange a demo situation with you/for you.
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2018, 12:10:56 PM »
For those who may be interested,  I have a set of b9 cm150's that I'm going to offering up as loners to vetted TS members.  Probably start after the new year.  Ran them the other nite and they sound fantastic.   Ed 
needin some fishhead music!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2018, 12:24:22 PM »
Ran them the other nite and they sound fantastic.   Ed
Can you post samples, or even the full show?
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #63 on: December 18, 2018, 12:32:30 PM »
Ran them the other nite and they sound fantastic.   Ed
Can you post samples, or even the full show?
^
This
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2018, 12:59:28 PM »
Ran them the other nite and they sound fantastic.   Ed
Can you post samples, or even the full show?
^
This

count me in as curious as well
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2018, 03:01:18 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/vulcans-humbolt-tap-house-hazelton-pa-12-15-18

cm150's into mixpre3       real small room.  had the stand on a table top about 7' up.  small PA with2 powered "DJ" speakers.   3 piece band.   using a suitcase kick drum and a foot pedal tambourine
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 03:06:47 PM by ero3030 »
needin some fishhead music!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2018, 03:21:54 PM »
Thanks Ed
Proud member of the reality-based community

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2018, 03:28:14 PM »
^^
Thank you Ed!
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2018, 03:32:13 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/vulcans-humbolt-tap-house-hazelton-pa-12-15-18

cm150's into mixpre3       real small room.  had the stand on a table top about 7' up.  small PA with2 powered "DJ" speakers.   3 piece band.   using a suitcase kick drum and a foot pedal tambourine
Thanks for the sample.
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2018, 11:03:03 PM »
This isn't purely the B9 mic (it's mixed with DPAs), but it's worth mentioning here regardless: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=603349
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2018, 04:42:37 PM »
This isn't purely the B9 mic (it's mixed with DPAs), but it's worth mentioning here regardless: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=603349

thanks. grabbed it this morning for a quick listen
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2018, 04:56:09 PM »
Both nights of Trey in Boulder. B9 MSM88 recording (no other mics blended):

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=603355
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2018, 05:14:20 PM »
Thanks for sharing i am really psyched to hear this. Lots of other well-known pairs to comp it with. Would love to hear this mic vs. an LSD2, busman or the AKG blumlein stereo mics, but that will have to wait for another day. Thanks again

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2018, 05:25:16 PM »
Thanks for sharing i am really psyched to hear this. Lots of other well-known pairs to comp it with. Would love to hear this mic vs. an LSD2, busman or the AKG blumlein stereo mics, but that will have to wait for another day. Thanks again

You can compare it to my TetraMic that was inches away and decoded to Blumlein: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=603291 and http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=603314
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2018, 06:14:06 PM »
This Trey sounds really really nice.

how far away would you say you guys were ? hard to tell from the venue pictures
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2018, 06:21:08 PM »
This Trey sounds really really nice.

how far away would you say you guys were ? hard to tell from the venue pictures

Front row of the balcony, which was probably at least 50 feet from the PA (I'm terrible at eyeballing distance though...hopefully someone else can give a better estimate).  The venue sounded VERY good.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2018, 07:45:41 PM »
I felt like we were a bit further back than I would have preferred to be with the CSM88 but I’m new to the Blumlein pattern and am still trying to figure it out. I’ve only been able to use this mic eight times since receiving it in September and unfortunately all but three of those occassions were part of larger multitrack efforts that I cannot share. I don’t think the Trey recordings misrepresent the CSM88 but it would’ve been nice to have more open space behind us. It has sounded very nice up close on acoustic guitars and pianos as well as in onstage/stage lip situations.
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2018, 09:29:30 PM »
Agree, very close/ stage lip is optimal for blumlein and capturing a complex stereo image. Though i’ve heard some incredible PA recordings - 9/22/93 st-250 immediately comes to mind - https://archive.org/details/gd93-09-22.ST250s.brennecke-young.4533.sbeok.shnf

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2018, 11:28:44 PM »
I know several of us are East coasters; kindms and I are in the NYC area. As your plans get firmed up let us know where on the East coast you will be and maybe we can arrange a demo situation with you/for you.

Planning will arrive in NYC the Feb. 12 night. 13/14/15 will be at Boston, 18 will be at Baltimore. March 2nd will be at NYC. In between Feb 18 to 28 could be arranged, not firm yet. It will be nice to meet you guys there.

https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/vulcans-humbolt-tap-house-hazelton-pa-12-15-18

cm150's into mixpre3       real small room.  had the stand on a table top about 7' up.  small PA with2 powered "DJ" speakers.   3 piece band.   using a suitcase kick drum and a foot pedal tambourine

Thank you ED, it really sound nice. Curious, what is suitcase kick drum?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 11:34:06 PM by b9audio »

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2018, 02:25:52 AM »


If you are using Blumlein deom a distance , add a center mic ( cardiod) , then adjust the center image post-recording. It's called the Blumlein-Pfanzangel principle.


or reverse MS as i jokingly call it

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2018, 04:56:26 AM »


If you are using Blumlein deom a distance , add a center mic ( cardiod) , then adjust the center image post-recording. It's called the Blumlein-Pfanzangel principle.


or reverse MS as i jokingly call it

Great idea  8)
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod [NAK CM-300 (CP-3) and/or (CP-1)]->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #81 on: December 20, 2018, 04:06:25 PM »
If you are using Blumlein from a distance , add a center mic (cardiod) , then adjust the center image post-recording. It's called the Blumlein-Pfanzangel principle.


or reverse MS as i jokingly call it
^
This works well as a more flexible way for tapers to run Blumlein..  and is essentially a direct Mid/Side manipulation adding additional forward-directional Mid component.  As level from the cardioid is increased, the resulting virtual microphone pair shifts towards hypercardioids with a narrower than 90 degree inclusive angle.  Conceptually it is the same as recording in Mid/Side using a variable pattern Mid microphone.  This is may be advantageous for audience taping situations in providing more fine-tuning options afterwards and making the arrangement more forward-biased rather than equally sensitive front and rear, modifying the direct/reverberant balance of the recording.

An alternate option that does not require a third channel would be to adjust the straight Blumlein recording afterwards using a Mid/Side re-adjustment. But that's not quite the same thing.  Bumping up the Mid / reducing Side narrows the angle, but will not shift the microphone patterns away from bi-directional to something more forward-biased.  The array always retains equal sensitivity to the front and rear if not to the sides, regardless of Mid/Side ratio and image width.  This is equivalent to physically changing the angle between bi-directional capsules to something less than 90 degrees prior to making the recording (which cannot be done with a fixed 90-degree Blumlein stereo mic that does not feature a separately-rotatable capsule).

If you wish to take it one step further, try a combination of Mid/Side re-adjustment of the Blumlein pair in combination with level adjustment of the forward-facing cardioid.  That way you can pay with finding the most appropriate balance between stereo-width and forward-bias without having those two aspects locked in an inverse relationship.  Both adjustments still affect the other, but one can dial in more of one in combination with less of the other to compensate.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:25:42 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2018, 04:24:37 PM »
BTW, conceptually, the same can be accomplished by orienting the Blumlein microphone in Mid/Side orientation instead of L/R orientation + the coincident cardioid.  This arrangement, with two Mid microphones pointing the same direction, may make the Mid/Side ratio adjustment stuff in the post above easier to visualize.

Then, if one were to use an omni instead of a cardioid, the result is horizontal-plane native-array ambisonics, with an even wider range of "variable Mid" pattern, extending beyond cardioid to subcard and omni Mid options.

But in non-theoretical real life, having all three capsules pointed more "on-axis" to the sources of interest (the stage and PA to either side of it) might be better, with the bi-directionals facing +/- 45 degrees and the cardioid facing directly forward.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2018, 12:37:00 AM »


If you are using Blumlein deom a distance , add a center mic ( cardiod) , then adjust the center image post-recording. It's called the Blumlein-Pfanzangel principle.


or reverse MS as i jokingly call it

Great idea, I am working on this new direct cable out version. The first product will be a stereo (duet) type, and there will be trio, and quartet version coming out. Trio can be setup in the way you mention, and also double MS. Quartet version can be used for VR, surround sound.... even double it will be an Octet version for double layer quatro ORTF/NOS....

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2018, 09:07:49 AM »
Side address cardioid, ORTF stereo piano. No process. WAV download link in the youtube description.
https://youtu.be/KopJyqmyik0

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #85 on: December 24, 2018, 08:02:19 PM »

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #86 on: December 26, 2018, 01:18:54 AM »
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #87 on: December 29, 2018, 09:13:51 AM »
Handel Messiah, recorded in 2016 Dec. All by B9audio microphones, 24 channels to be my recall.
Microphone pres are RME Octamic II, converted by RME ADI 648 to MADI. Recorded to Video Device PIX270.
https://youtu.be/bw1aJ_MOAdk

Offline ero3030

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2018, 05:27:57 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/everyone-orchestra-adrmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers

here is a recording from a bigger sound system and thr B9 hypers came threw with flying colors IMO.  not too bright or brittle.  nice mids and lows
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 09:17:11 AM by ero3030 »
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2019, 02:40:42 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/the-underwater-sounds-ardmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers

Is this also the CM150F? I don't see any "hypers" on the b9 site-- assuming hyper is synonymous with super, here.

Thx for the sample btw. Has me strongly considering a pair. What mic arrangement did you use for this one?

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Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
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Offline love2tape

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #93 on: January 03, 2019, 04:14:31 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/the-underwater-sounds-ardmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers

Is this also the CM150F? I don't see any "hypers" on the b9 site-- assuming hyper is synonymous with super, here.

Thx for the sample btw. Has me strongly considering a pair. What mic arrangement did you use for this one?

Listening more, there's a very distinct high pitch ringing audible @ 28:40 - do you remember if this was in the room or do you think it's the mics?

Offline ero3030

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #94 on: January 03, 2019, 04:50:25 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/the-underwater-sounds-ardmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers

Is this also the CM150F? I don't see any "hypers" on the b9 site-- assuming hyper is synonymous with super, here.

Thx for the sample btw. Has me strongly considering a pair. What mic arrangement did you use for this one?

Listening more, there's a very distinct high pitch ringing audible @ 28:40 - do you remember if this was in the room or do you think it's the mics?

I checked,  couldn't hear it.  Let me know if anyone else can hear it. Thax
needin some fishhead music!

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #95 on: January 03, 2019, 04:52:19 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/the-underwater-sounds-ardmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers
Is this recorded by pointing the mic at the PA speakers?

Many, though certainly not all, people on this forum are recording concerts from the audience area of a concert.  Often those concerts use a large PA system, so we're trying to pick up the sound coming from the PA.  This is generally done with the approval of the artist, though that generally doesn't include the ability to set up microphones anywhere in the venue.  So, we're usually trying to make a recording in suboptimal conditions and with equipment that wasn't designed having such a purpose in mind.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #96 on: January 03, 2019, 04:52:44 PM »
Listening more, there's a very distinct high pitch ringing audible @ 28:40 - do you remember if this was in the room or do you think it's the mics?

Have you ruled out your playback system as the culprit?
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline love2tape

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2019, 05:26:02 PM »
Listening more, there's a very distinct high pitch ringing audible @ 28:40 - do you remember if this was in the room or do you think it's the mics?

Have you ruled out your playback system as the culprit?

Yep- I played it both with my work headset & just holding my iphone up to my ear after seeing this post, and can hear it from both sources- if both of you aren't hearing it, it might be one of those 'higher frequencies that only certain ears can hear' type of things. Note that it doesn't begin at 28:40, I was bouncing around the audio clip and it stuck out at me when I went there to listen to a lower volume song. Try clicking on 8:40, listening for a sec, and then going to 14:00? It's not audible at 8:40, and clearly audible at 14:02, and there's almost no other sound at both these times.

Anyway, I doubt it's the mics, since I would expect it to be consistent at the moments of dead air if it was the mics. Sorry for lil derail, and thx again for the clip. I'm in the market for some supers and am definitely eyeing these a lot :)

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2019, 05:33:23 PM »
I didn't say whether I heard it or not, I just wanted to clarify things.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2019, 07:40:25 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/the-underwater-sounds-ardmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers
Is this recorded by pointing the mic at the PA speakers?

Many, though certainly not all, people on this forum are recording concerts from the audience area of a concert.  Often those concerts use a large PA system, so we're trying to pick up the sound coming from the PA.  This is generally done with the approval of the artist, though that generally doesn't include the ability to set up microphones anywhere in the venue.  So, we're usually trying to make a recording in suboptimal conditions and with equipment that wasn't designed having such a purpose in mind.
LOL.  Thanks for summarizing this strange hobby.
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2019, 06:46:06 PM »
I can hear a high pitched noise at the 28:40 mark. i cant tell if its PA noise or what but there is a definite almost tinnitus like hmmm. i didnt hear it in the early part of the recording. its there and stays audible for a bit.

you can hear as the female singer speaks to the audience in the lead up to the 28:40 mark. I have really shitty ears so i triple checked before posting

i dont hear it in the quiet part before fussing and fighting. So its probably a PA thing but im just guessing
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 06:47:49 PM by kindms »
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2019, 03:31:13 AM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/jay-smar-blue-lizard-winery-andreas-pa-01-26-19b5-hypers

here is a diff recording with the b9 hypers.  a single little "practice" amp with crazy loud ladies drinking at a winery!  this is the last of his 3 small sets.  my friend, jay,  is a folk/coal mining song writer ( I live in the heart of hard coal mining )  he is getting ready to retire after 30 plus years playing,  mostly educational sets to school children all over eastern PA.  he plays the fiddle, claw hammer,6 string and also clogs like the old miners used too.    any static u may hear is coming from his end.  ed
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 10:01:01 AM by ero3030 »
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Offline love2tape

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #102 on: February 03, 2019, 01:48:06 PM »
Anyone with CM150F have an example of a mic clip that fits it? Or pics of a rig with a bar? Keep recording with cards and finding myself wondering what might have been with some hypers.. want to make sure I have the gear to set it up if I pick them up.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #103 on: February 06, 2019, 09:53:17 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/jay-smar-blue-lizard-winery-andreas-pa-01-26-19b5-hypers

here is a diff recording with the b9 hypers.  a single little "practice" amp with crazy loud ladies drinking at a winery!  this is the last of his 3 small sets.  my friend, jay,  is a folk/coal mining song writer ( I live in the heart of hard coal mining )  he is getting ready to retire after 30 plus years playing,  mostly educational sets to school children all over eastern PA.  he plays the fiddle, claw hammer,6 string and also clogs like the old miners used too.    any static u may hear is coming from his end.  ed

nice
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #104 on: February 08, 2019, 08:04:22 AM »
A step forward with Blumlein stereo, I tried this setup with extra center Omni channel. In this way, the stereo sound stage can be altered and even decoded to surround sound.


This is the audio file download link. Comments welcome.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1v2lD3YxJmbhGMDYI1j1ZdnKtlKX6hrpn

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #106 on: February 12, 2019, 08:14:54 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/flux-capacitor-abc-brewery-harrisburgpa-2-9-19-b9-hypers

here is a set from a 3 piece rock band I see on a regular basis.  these b9 hypers r really sounding nice in the small bar/clubs I go to
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #107 on: February 12, 2019, 09:18:02 PM »
A step forward with Blumlein stereo, I tried this setup with extra center Omni channel. In this way, the stereo sound stage can be altered and even decoded to surround sound.

This is the audio file download link. Comments welcome.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1v2lD3YxJmbhGMDYI1j1ZdnKtlKX6hrpn

For those wondering about this configuration, addition of the omni modifies the polar patterns of the Blumlein pair but does not change the 90 degree angle inclusive between them as follows:

No omni = 90° X/Y fig-8s (standard Blumlein)
Omni mixed into both channels at a 1:2 ratio with respect to each fig-8 = 90° X/Y super/hypercards
Omni mixed into both channels at a 1:1 ratio with respect to each fig-8 = 90° X/Y cardioids 
Omni mixed into both channels at a 2:1 ratio with respect to each fig-8 = 90° X/Y subcardioids

Further-
Inverting polarity on both figure-8's switches those X/Y patterns from forward facing to rearward facing.
Inverting polarity on one figure-8 switches those X/Y patterns to sideways facing.
Inverting polarity on the other figure-8 switches those X/Y patterns sideways facing in the opposite direction.

And just for the curious-
Inverting polarity on the omni switches those X/Y patterns from forward facing to rearward facing (just like inverting both 8's) but also inverts the polarity of the output.
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Offline love2tape

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #108 on: February 12, 2019, 09:22:53 PM »
Planning on picking up the CM150Fs- already got my INV6 shockmounts :D

Just fyi, b9 says they're out of stock on them at the moment- but they do have a new version in stock. He said they are "direct cable out"- but I didn't get an answer if it's active or just a built in XLR?



I'm curious about this- it seems like if I'm putting them on a stand and connecting them to another XLR, there's no real functional difference, right? I think they're a bit smaller- so if that's a sticking point, I get it, but I'll be open taping so it seems moot. The thing that has me apprehensive is that it would potentially be an extra point of failure which provides no real benefit.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:40:47 PM by love2tape »

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2019, 09:57:24 PM »
Planning on picking up the CM150Fs- already got my INV6 shockmounts :D

Just fyi, b9 says they're out of stock on them at the moment- but they do have a new version in stock. He said they are "direct cable out"- but I didn't get an answer if it's active or just a built in XLR?

I'm curious about this- it seems like if I'm putting them on a stand and connecting them to another XLR, there's no real functional difference, right? I think they're a bit smaller- so if that's a sticking point, I get it, but I'll be open taping so it seems moot. The thing that has me apprehensive is that it would potentially be an extra point of failure which provides no real benefit.

CMP1C is exactly the same in electronics with CMP1, only difference is to add a cable between the PCB and the XLR plug.
There're some benefit, especially in some critical situation:
1. Need extreme short microphone length, such as for mounting inside the VR Ball. Only 100mm for a microphone; including XLR plug for standard microphones. It is certainly not possible and special low profile plug is needed in such case.
2. Reduce connections, such as the case above, for standard microphones, there's 1 extra connection needed. Every additional connection increase the quality risk. (If you use thick cable, shock mount doesn't work well.)
3. Provide better vibration isolation. Low profile flexible cable transmit much less vibration energy than standard thick mic cable.
4. Added extra possibility: Stereo version, 3-channel version, and 4-channel version uses a single plug. User run simple multi pair cable from microphones to mixer/recorder/pre amplifiers, reduce cable complexity.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #110 on: February 14, 2019, 01:33:01 AM »
All of this looks very cool and interesting... just marking this thread to come back to.
I would be curious if anyone out there has tried the Wide Cards in NOS, I would think that might be quite nice way FOB (up front).
~ Archival Audio ~
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since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2019, 01:37:09 AM »
The CM150Fs
 b9 says they're out of stock on them at the moment- but they do have a new version in stock.
He said they are "direct cable out"- but I didn't get an answer if it's active or just a built in XLR?



I like the "active" (style) set up direct to xlr. the "collette" looks to be a bit longer than say the Schoeps or others, but it's clean. - Are the capsules interchangeable? could the wide card (CM131F)  , or omni cardioid  (CM 130H) with high frequency boost t  be available in this configuration, as a matched pair perhaps? what exactly is there difference between the wide cardioid and the Omni card?
thanks
--Ian
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2019, 11:03:36 AM »
I like the "active" (style) set up direct to xlr. the "collette" looks to be a bit longer than say the Schoeps or others, but it's clean. - Are the capsules interchangeable? could the wide card (CM131F)  , or omni cardioid  (CM 130H) with high frequency boost t  be available in this configuration, as a matched pair perhaps? what exactly is there difference between the wide cardioid and the Omni card?
thanks
--Ian

The capsules are interchangeable, Almost all B9audio capsules can be fitted, except CSM88.
Difference bewteen 30 and 31: 30 is more omni like, so it is an "O". 31 is more cardioid like, so it is "1". In case you need them for sound reinforcement, 30 could be in the same situation as an omni, and 31 could be almost used as a cardioid. Certainly, still easier feedback compared with standard cardioid.

Offline love2tape

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #113 on: February 16, 2019, 05:16:31 PM »
Planning on picking up the CM150Fs- already got my INV6 shockmounts :D

Just fyi, b9 says they're out of stock on them at the moment- but they do have a new version in stock. He said they are "direct cable out"- but I didn't get an answer if it's active or just a built in XLR?

I'm curious about this- it seems like if I'm putting them on a stand and connecting them to another XLR, there's no real functional difference, right? I think they're a bit smaller- so if that's a sticking point, I get it, but I'll be open taping so it seems moot. The thing that has me apprehensive is that it would potentially be an extra point of failure which provides no real benefit.

CMP1C is exactly the same in electronics with CMP1, only difference is to add a cable between the PCB and the XLR plug.
There're some benefit, especially in some critical situation:
1. Need extreme short microphone length, such as for mounting inside the VR Ball. Only 100mm for a microphone; including XLR plug for standard microphones. It is certainly not possible and special low profile plug is needed in such case.
2. Reduce connections, such as the case above, for standard microphones, there's 1 extra connection needed. Every additional connection increase the quality risk. (If you use thick cable, shock mount doesn't work well.)
3. Provide better vibration isolation. Low profile flexible cable transmit much less vibration energy than standard thick mic cable.
4. Added extra possibility: Stereo version, 3-channel version, and 4-channel version uses a single plug. User run simple multi pair cable from microphones to mixer/recorder/pre amplifiers, reduce cable complexity.

I like the "active" (style) set up direct to xlr. the "collette" looks to be a bit longer than say the Schoeps or others, but it's clean. - Are the capsules interchangeable? could the wide card (CM131F)  , or omni cardioid  (CM 130H) with high frequency boost t  be available in this configuration, as a matched pair perhaps? what exactly is there difference between the wide cardioid and the Omni card?
thanks
--Ian


Y'all sold me on this. I'm practicing setting up w/ my new shock mounts & stand/stereo bar and I can see how it would be a benefit. Going to purchase a pair right now.

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #114 on: March 03, 2019, 03:10:24 PM »
I like the "active" (style) set up direct to xlr. the "collette" looks to be a bit longer than say the Schoeps or others, but it's clean. - Are the capsules interchangeable? could the wide card (CM131F)  , or omni cardioid  (CM 130H) with high frequency boost t  be available in this configuration, as a matched pair perhaps? what exactly is there difference between the wide cardioid and the Omni card?
thanks
--Ian

The capsules are interchangeable, Almost all B9audio capsules can be fitted, except CSM88.
Difference bewteen 30 and 31: 30 is more omni like, so it is an "O". 31 is more cardioid like, so it is "1". In case you need them for sound reinforcement, 30 could be in the same situation as an omni, and 31 could be almost used as a cardioid. Certainly, still easier feedback compared with standard cardioid.

Just wondering if one wanted to order a matched pair of capsules with the "active" style "collettes" to mini (starquad-or similar) cable to  XLR how would one do so and what would be the costing? there appears to be no information  or pricing on the site about any "active type" set ups.  will the pdf brochure etc. and website be updated soon?
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #115 on: March 03, 2019, 08:39:52 PM »
Just wondering if one wanted to order a matched pair of capsules with the "active" style "collettes" to mini (starquad-or similar) cable to  XLR how would one do so and what would be the costing? there appears to be no information  or pricing on the site about any "active type" set ups.  will the pdf brochure etc. and website be updated soon?

Yes, we will update the website and product info soon. Planning to make another brochure on the CMP1C combinations.

Offline DSatz

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #116 on: March 03, 2019, 11:16:54 PM »
People, please: "Colette" is a name used by Schoeps GmbH to identify their CMC microphone series. Among the features of this series is Schoeps' original, patented scheme of "active" accessories (i.e. accessories that contain active circuitry). These accessories can be placed between the capsule and amplifier of a condenser microphone so as to allow unobtrusive placement of the capsule as a lightweight unit separate from the amplifier, or for other purposes such as signal processing (e.g. very sharp, active low-cut filtering).

"Colette" isn't a generic term. There's no such thing as "the colette" of something--even if that something was made by Schoeps.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline rodeen

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #117 on: March 04, 2019, 01:07:36 PM »
So would mic capsule holder be more appropriate?  Thx.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #118 on: March 04, 2019, 02:47:30 PM »
In all honesty I didn't know what part of the microphone you were trying to describe, and I still don't. If you meant the part that contains the circuitry--that's the amplifier. Or maybe you meant the short, narrow part at the back of the amplifier where the cable exits. I guess you could call that the "neck" of the amplifier, but that's not any kind of standardized term.

Anyway, those are just two guesses off the top of my head. (And maybe you meant something else entirely ...)

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 03:03:05 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #119 on: March 04, 2019, 03:19:13 PM »
Anyone on this board using active or collette  with " " " ", I feel 90% of the people reading it understands what they r referring too.  With all do respect to schoeps,   I feel it's great that here on this board u can purchase "actives" with "collettes" for akg, neumann, mbho and gefells along with schoeps.  Yes, most use those terms, active and collette, in the "generic " sense,  but is there any other terms that could be used? Ed
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #120 on: March 04, 2019, 05:22:45 PM »
In all honesty I didn't know what part of the microphone you were trying to describe, and I still don't. If you meant the part that contains the circuitry--that's the amplifier. Or maybe you meant the short, narrow part at the back of the amplifier where the cable exits. I guess you could call that the "neck" of the amplifier, but that's not any kind of standardized term.

Anyway, those are just two guesses off the top of my head. (And maybe you meant something else entirely ...)

--best regards

I always feel like such an idiot when talking about Schoeps products.  I honestly thought the "collette" was the mic capsule holder on the capsule side of an active cable.  I think I understand now that the Collette series is a modular microphone product. 

Thanks for the education...
 
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #121 on: March 04, 2019, 05:48:56 PM »
I tend to call the CCM/active part that fits into an SGC clip the "nipple". 
:wink2:
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 06:26:20 PM by yug du nord »
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #122 on: March 04, 2019, 07:19:11 PM »
It is only a inter changeable lens camera concept. The same camera body can be fitted with various lenses for various purposes.
Pre stage is the camera body, and lenses equal to the capsules.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #123 on: March 04, 2019, 09:36:47 PM »
David is, of course, technically correct.

But, as a linguistic descriptivist, I believe that, in taper parlance, the "colette" means the part of an "active" cable which attaches to the microphone capsule.


People, please: "Colette" is a name used by Schoeps GmbH to identify their CMC microphone series. Among the features of this series is Schoeps' original, patented scheme of "active" accessories (i.e. accessories that contain active circuitry). These accessories can be placed between the capsule and amplifier of a condenser microphone so as to allow unobtrusive placement of the capsule as a lightweight unit separate from the amplifier, or for other purposes such as signal processing (e.g. very sharp, active low-cut filtering).

"Colette" isn't a generic term. There's no such thing as "the colette" of something--even if that something was made by Schoeps.

--best regards
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #124 on: March 08, 2019, 01:19:20 AM »
 Thanks Noah...

David is, of course, technically correct.

But, as a linguistic descriptivist, I believe that, in taper parlance, the "colette" means the part of an "active" cable which attaches to the microphone capsule.


People, please: "Colette" is a name used by Schoeps GmbH to identify their CMC microphone series. Among the features of this series is Schoeps' original, patented scheme of "active" accessories (i.e. accessories that contain active circuitry). These accessories can be placed between the capsule and amplifier of a condenser microphone so as to allow unobtrusive placement of the capsule as a lightweight unit separate from the amplifier, or for other purposes such as signal processing (e.g. very sharp, active low-cut filtering).

"Colette" isn't a generic term. There's no such thing as "the colette" of something--even if that something was made by Schoeps.

--best regards

as I have been known to be wrong before... that's that I would call the  part that connects the capsule to the active cable, hence why I noted "colette" for lack of a better term.
--Ian
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #125 on: March 08, 2019, 01:20:53 AM »
Just wondering if one wanted to order a matched pair of capsules with the "active" style "collettes" to mini (starquad-or similar) cable to  XLR how would one do so and what would be the costing? there appears to be no information  or pricing on the site about any "active type" set ups.  will the pdf brochure etc. and website be updated soon?

Yes, we will update the website and product info soon. Planning to make another brochure on the CMP1C combinations.

Thank you!
~ Archival Audio ~
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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 • Line Audio CM3's
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Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony M-10 

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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #126 on: March 08, 2019, 09:50:58 AM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/the-underwater-sounds-ardmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers
Is this recorded by pointing the mic at the PA speakers?

Many, though certainly not all, people on this forum are recording concerts from the audience area of a concert.  Often those concerts use a large PA system, so we're trying to pick up the sound coming from the PA.  This is generally done with the approval of the artist, though that generally doesn't include the ability to set up microphones anywhere in the venue.  So, we're usually trying to make a recording in suboptimal conditions and with equipment that wasn't designed having such a purpose in mind.

And a certain weird taper subgroup hides microphones in Samuel Jackson hats up close to avoid said suboptimal conditions.
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #127 on: March 08, 2019, 07:04:15 PM »
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/the-underwater-sounds-ardmore-music-hall-12-29-18-b9-hypers
Is this recorded by pointing the mic at the PA speakers?

Many, though certainly not all, people on this forum are recording concerts from the audience area of a concert.  Often those concerts use a large PA system, so we're trying to pick up the sound coming from the PA.  This is generally done with the approval of the artist, though that generally doesn't include the ability to set up microphones anywhere in the venue.  So, we're usually trying to make a recording in suboptimal conditions and with equipment that wasn't designed having such a purpose in mind.

And a certain weird taper subgroup hides microphones in Samuel Jackson hats up close to avoid said suboptimal conditions.

who are you calling weird?   :bigsmile:

Offline noahbickart

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #128 on: March 09, 2019, 11:05:23 PM »
It’s not our fault!!!

Looks like the film sound people are the ones who began using “collette” to mean, “capsule end of kcX cable”

A jwsound review of the cmr from 2013 read, in part:
“Also, it is a little bit bigger at the connection to the capsule than a Colette, but considering everything in the chain that it eliminates, this is negligible.”
 
Here’s the thread: https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/17908-schoeps-cmr-use-your-mk-capsule-with-a-lectrosonics-bodypack-transmitter-with-a-single-cable/

People, please: "Colette" is a name used by Schoeps GmbH to identify their CMC microphone series. Among the features of this series is Schoeps' original, patented scheme of "active" accessories (i.e. accessories that contain active circuitry). These accessories can be placed between the capsule and amplifier of a condenser microphone so as to allow unobtrusive placement of the capsule as a lightweight unit separate from the amplifier, or for other purposes such as signal processing (e.g. very sharp, active low-cut filtering).

"Colette" isn't a generic term. There's no such thing as "the colette" of something--even if that something was made by Schoeps.

--best regards
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline ero3030

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #129 on: March 16, 2019, 02:16:17 PM »
phish tribute band called The Lizards.  i was there for the opening act,  but decided record these guys for a little as the night was young and our ride wasnt ready.  im not a Phish fan, but these guys seemed pretty good.  i was using the B9audio hypers.  ed
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/sets/the-lizards-sherman-theater-stroudsburgpa-3-15-19
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Offline love2tape

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #130 on: March 16, 2019, 05:21:34 PM »
phish tribute band called The Lizards.  i was there for the opening act,  but decided record these guys for a little as the night was young and our ride wasnt ready.  im not a Phish fan, but these guys seemed pretty good.  i was using the B9audio hypers.  ed
https://soundcloud.com/ed-eroh/sets/the-lizards-sherman-theater-stroudsburgpa-3-15-19

Very nice, thank you for sharing. Mine are on the way- should have some tapes at the end of next month :)

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #131 on: March 24, 2019, 12:15:38 PM »
New CMP1C, the hard wire pre-stage version is designed for microphone array setup. For those use stereo microphones, a fixed configuration microphone is convenient, but not possible to re-configured as other setup. Here is the solution.
Not only stereo, but also 3 channels, and 4 channels versions.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2019, 04:23:32 AM »
Any one can tell the difference? Front and back of fig-8 capsules.
https://youtu.be/o_r6-1JYAwk

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2019, 05:19:03 AM »
will check! :D

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #134 on: April 09, 2019, 08:00:13 AM »
Your chance to win a pair of B9audio microphones. Here is the video, there are 8 different setup. The same music repeat 8 times. As soon as you are the first one to provide correct answer, you are the winner the B9audio microphones worth around USD1,300.
https://youtu.be/vT2KO2t0rFo

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #135 on: April 10, 2019, 05:36:34 PM »
Sounds like a fun listening test. I'll try and give a listen tonight if I get the opportunity. How would you like us to submit our answers?


I'm strongly considering trying one or two of your figure-8s as a Mid-channel microphones in my multichannel arrays, but haven't gotten around to doing anything about it yet.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #136 on: April 11, 2019, 01:01:50 AM »
Sounds like a fun listening test. I'll try and give a listen tonight if I get the opportunity. How would you like us to submit our answers?


I'm strongly considering trying one or two of your figure-8s as a Mid-channel microphones in my multichannel arrays, but haven't gotten around to doing anything about it yet.

PM me your answer. Will do other fun test when I have time. Want to do VR/Surround next time.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #137 on: April 11, 2019, 09:25:47 AM »
Will do.  Didn't get a chance to listen last night, but will do so once I get home next week.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #138 on: April 13, 2019, 02:33:07 AM »
FSM44V, side address cardioid pair. Flexible Stereo Microphone, user can change capsule and mount for other stereo setup.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #139 on: April 16, 2019, 05:56:57 AM »
Still not yet receive correct answer. This B9audio FSM44V could be yours as soon as you are the first one give the right answer.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #140 on: April 22, 2019, 04:10:33 AM »
Here is the answer.
https://youtu.be/vT2KO2t0rFo

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #141 on: April 23, 2019, 03:22:41 PM »
I've still not made the time to listen properly but look forward to doing so, if only to test my perception of stereo microphone configurations.   I see the youtube link with answers posted immediately above is the same link that was posted previously.  So as not to spoil the self-test, will I be able to avoid inadvertently seeing the answers until after doing the listening?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #142 on: July 12, 2019, 12:00:46 PM »
Develop the a very flexible stereo microphone. It can be almost the same as a fixed single body stereo microphone, but can be re-configured when you need to do so.
This is a demo of a small spaced stereo between coincident Xy and ORTF.
https://youtu.be/rVaBwgWnvpQ

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #143 on: July 14, 2019, 12:26:28 PM »
Develop the a very flexible stereo microphone. It can be almost the same as a fixed single body stereo microphone, but can be re-configured when you need to do so.
This is a demo of a small spaced stereo between coincident Xy and ORTF.
https://youtu.be/rVaBwgWnvpQ

How does that do xy or mid-side?  It looks like the microphones are spaced apart horizontally.
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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2019, 01:58:55 AM »
This is the XY setting. The MS setting can be configured with the same bracket with end address M and a standard figure-8.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #145 on: September 11, 2019, 09:49:48 AM »
Glad to see the new kid in town.

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #146 on: September 11, 2019, 04:55:56 PM »
Recorded a nearly sold out rock show with CM150f DINa in a less than ideal position- in the corner of the room near the SBD

https://images.app.goo.gl/SkxhPJu18ak6tBd48 <- Sbd Visible near bottom left of image. Mics were as tucked into the corner as possible directly next to the wall.

They performed rather admirably considering the circumstances. EQ'd to reduce some low end boominess and applied a de-esser.

https://archive.org/details/tmg2019-08-28

I recorded a show from the same band in a different venue the following night. Mics were in more ideal position DFC roughly 30' back. DINa was PAS. I matrix'd it with some CA-14s I had on stage- I am a big fan of the band's drummer and love the capture from the kit with CA14 on stage lip. Let me know if anyone wants the B9 raws and I can upload.

 https://archive.org/details/tmg2019-08-29

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #147 on: September 12, 2019, 01:07:11 AM »
During developing B9audio series products, there're several possibilities:
1. Single one body design. Includes capsules, pre-stage, and XLR plug in a single body. Same as most microphones.
2. Inter-changeable, capsules as pure capsules. Pre-stage and XLR can be a single body, or the XLR can be separated by a cable (CMP1C) or by a low profile boom (BM xxx C).
3. Inter-changeable, capsules always built together with pre-stage. Such as MKH8000, or CCM, that the XLR part could be separated to insert optional module. Not a bad idea, since the electronics could be optimised and always low-impedance, and balanced.

Modern electronics technology makes it possibly to shrink down in some way, but not in the other, such as the true condenser capsules and XLR connectors. XLR maybe bulkier than modern connectors, but it is already an established standard that is so popular, and doesn't seem to be replaceable.

2 years after CMP1 announced, FSM series built upon CMP1C, a pre-stage that the XLR plug was separated from a single body. And this makes it possible to build a very flexible stereo microphone. No matter it is ORTF, XY, MS....
In this way, the user doesn't have to stock all kinds of microphones, instead, a single system that can be configured according to demand.
There will be some exciting new products coming out later, and it is so nice that name brands agreed to our point of view by releasing their new products.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #148 on: September 17, 2019, 12:07:44 PM »
I urge you to consider a super flexible stereo microphone variant:  A stereo microphone similar to CSM88 except with an interchangeable top capsule.  In other words, a bidirectional capsule permanently fixed to a stereo amplifier with 5 pin XLR, on the end of which the user can attach a second capsule of their choice - which can be any of your various side or end-address capsules.  It would provide many Blumlein/Mid-Side stereo configuration options in a single stereo microphone.

Various setup options:

1) C8 Bi-directional 2nd capsule - producing a CMS88 equivalent Blumlein crossed-8 pair (side-address orientation)
2) Side-address CV4 cardioid or CV5 supercardioid 2nd capsule - providing choice of Mid channel pattern for M/S stereo in side-address orientation.
3) End-address C2 omni, C3 subcardioid, C31 wide cardioid, C4 cardioid, C5 supercardioid, or C7 interference-tube gun 2nd capsule- choice of Mid channel pattern for M/S stereo in end-address orientation.

Options 1 and 2 provide "acoustically correct" vertically-coincident options. Option 3 provides end-address "stereo pencil microphone" configuration for applications where such an orientation is preferable: on camera video (likely to be the largest market), nature and location effects recording, Taperssection style concert taping rigs, etc. 

It represents a unique product no other manufacturer produces, via a design which satisfies the requirements of multiple markets, and it should not be difficult to implement as you already have all individual component elements developed except the housing. The "both capsules in-line with the mic body" configuration is an important differentiation from your current "side-by-side" X/Y side-address or "one-atop-the-other" M/S end-address coincident stereo options.  It would provide flexibility to the user in the form of a clear path forward regarding future purchases of additional 2nd capsules.  You win with return customers, customers win with modular flexibility in a unique system.

If you want to get fancy, you can offer it with a switchable M/S matrix in the amplifier providing direct L/R output in addition to M/S (but please not L/R only without M/S output)

I offer this suggestion because I've  thought about and wished for such a system for years.  I would be especially interested in the end-address configuration using a C7 interference-tube gun Mid, as I find myself looking around at "fixed" stereo short-shotgun options: Neumann RSM 191A as the reference; AKG MKH-418S; Audio Technica BP4029; the new Sanken CMS-50..
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Offline voltronic

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #149 on: September 17, 2019, 06:02:56 PM »
I urge you to consider a super flexible stereo microphone variant:  A stereo microphone similar to CSM88 except with an interchangeable top capsule.  In other words, a bidirectional capsule permanently fixed to a stereo amplifier with 5 pin XLR, on the end of which the user can attach a second capsule of their choice - which can be any of your various side or end-address capsules.  It would provide many Blumlein/Mid-Side stereo configuration options in a single stereo microphone.

Various setup options:

1) C8 Bi-directional 2nd capsule - producing a CMS88 equivalent Blumlein crossed-8 pair (side-address orientation)
2) Side-address CV4 cardioid or CV5 supercardioid 2nd capsule - providing choice of Mid channel pattern for M/S stereo in side-address orientation.
3) End-address C2 omni, C3 subcardioid, C31 wide cardioid, C4 cardioid, C5 supercardioid, or C7 interference-tube gun 2nd capsule- choice of Mid channel pattern for M/S stereo in end-address orientation.

Options 1 and 2 provide "acoustically correct" vertically-coincident options. Option 3 provides end-address "stereo pencil microphone" configuration for applications where such an orientation is preferable: on camera video (likely to be the largest market), nature and location effects recording, Taperssection style concert taping rigs, etc. 

It represents a unique product no other manufacturer produces, via a design which satisfies the requirements of multiple markets, and it should not be difficult to implement as you already have all individual component elements developed except the housing. The "both capsules in-line with the mic body" configuration is an important differentiation from your current "side-by-side" X/Y side-address or "one-atop-the-other" M/S end-address coincident stereo options.  It would provide flexibility to the user in the form of a clear path forward regarding future purchases of additional 2nd capsules.  You win with return customers, customers win with modular flexibility in a unique system.

If you want to get fancy, you can offer it with a switchable M/S matrix in the amplifier providing direct L/R output in addition to M/S (but please not L/R only without M/S output)

I offer this suggestion because I've  thought about and wished for such a system for years.  I would be especially interested in the end-address configuration using a C7 interference-tube gun Mid, as I find myself looking around at "fixed" stereo short-shotgun options: Neumann RSM 191A as the reference; AKG MKH-418S; Audio Technica BP4029; the new Sanken CMS-50..

I second Gutbucket's request.  This is a VERY cool idea. :clapping:

My additional request that an optional end cap be sold such that this theoretical mic could be used without the second interchangeable capsule - in other words, the "bottom" fig8 mic on its own as a mono mic.  This would allow you to take that second capsule and use it elsewhere on another amplifier body.  For a use example: this would allow someone to quickly change between compact Blumlein and a Faulkner array with only two capsules and amplifiers.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #150 on: September 17, 2019, 06:29:49 PM »
+T!  Great idea.
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Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #151 on: September 19, 2019, 12:04:51 AM »
I urge you to consider a super flexible stereo microphone variant:  A stereo microphone similar to CSM88 except with an interchangeable top capsule.  In other words, a bidirectional capsule permanently fixed to a stereo amplifier with 5 pin XLR, on the end of which the user can attach a second capsule of their choice - which can be any of your various side or end-address capsules.  It would provide many Blumlein/Mid-Side stereo configuration options in a single stereo microphone.

Various setup options:

1) C8 Bi-directional 2nd capsule - producing a CMS88 equivalent Blumlein crossed-8 pair (side-address orientation)
2) Side-address CV4 cardioid or CV5 supercardioid 2nd capsule - providing choice of Mid channel pattern for M/S stereo in side-address orientation.
3) End-address C2 omni, C3 subcardioid, C31 wide cardioid, C4 cardioid, C5 supercardioid, or C7 interference-tube gun 2nd capsule- choice of Mid channel pattern for M/S stereo in end-address orientation.

Options 1 and 2 provide "acoustically correct" vertically-coincident options. Option 3 provides end-address "stereo pencil microphone" configuration for applications where such an orientation is preferable: on camera video (likely to be the largest market), nature and location effects recording, Taperssection style concert taping rigs, etc. 

It represents a unique product no other manufacturer produces, via a design which satisfies the requirements of multiple markets, and it should not be difficult to implement as you already have all individual component elements developed except the housing. The "both capsules in-line with the mic body" configuration is an important differentiation from your current "side-by-side" X/Y side-address or "one-atop-the-other" M/S end-address coincident stereo options.  It would provide flexibility to the user in the form of a clear path forward regarding future purchases of additional 2nd capsules.  You win with return customers, customers win with modular flexibility in a unique system.

If you want to get fancy, you can offer it with a switchable M/S matrix in the amplifier providing direct L/R output in addition to M/S (but please not L/R only without M/S output)

I offer this suggestion because I've  thought about and wished for such a system for years.  I would be especially interested in the end-address configuration using a C7 interference-tube gun Mid, as I find myself looking around at "fixed" stereo short-shotgun options: Neumann RSM 191A as the reference; AKG MKH-418S; Audio Technica BP4029; the new Sanken CMS-50..

I second Gutbucket's request.  This is a VERY cool idea. :clapping:

My additional request that an optional end cap be sold such that this theoretical mic could be used without the second interchangeable capsule - in other words, the "bottom" fig8 mic on its own as a mono mic.  This would allow you to take that second capsule and use it elsewhere on another amplifier body.  For a use example: this would allow someone to quickly change between compact Blumlein and a Faulkner array with only two capsules and amplifiers.

Thank you all, the idea is really cool, but I hesitate to do so.
Pros:
1. Easier wind screen, simple tube foam will do.
2. No other product is the same.
3. Flexible

Cons:
1. Time align problem for end address setup. Front to back is more worst than side by side.
2. More inventory.
3. Not easy to align for side address setup.
4. Have to make side address omnis..... Not ideal.

Will try to digest, for the FSM we're developing, the foam screen design is  a challenge.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #152 on: October 02, 2019, 05:32:26 PM »
Cons:
1. Time align problem for end address setup. Front to back is more worst than side by side.
2. More inventory.
3. Not easy to align for side address setup.
4. Have to make side address omnis..... Not ideal.

Will try to digest, for the FSM we're developing, the foam screen design is  a challenge.

1. If your are promoting FSM for M/S, it suffers the same problem.
2. Granted! (as a manufacturer, I relate to this)
3. Not a problem for end-address use, but yes, side-address would require a partially rotating top section into which the top capsule screws.. or more simply, perhaps a very thin knurled lock-rig as capsule-locking jam-nut if the threaded section of the capsule is long enough to accommodate it while still achieving a secure connection to the mic body and good conductor contact. 
4. Only for vertical-orientation side-address use when an omni Mid is desired.  Not a deal killer in my option if not available, as all your current side-address capsules would be available for use in vertical orientation. For horizontal end-address use, any of your current end-address omni capsules could be used.

5. Easy windscreen!
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #153 on: October 02, 2019, 05:44:21 PM »
For whatever it's worth, I'm all for Gutbucket's idea. 
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Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #154 on: October 03, 2019, 01:23:15 AM »
Cons:
1. Time align problem for end address setup. Front to back is more worst than side by side.
2. More inventory.
3. Not easy to align for side address setup.
4. Have to make side address omnis..... Not ideal.

Will try to digest, for the FSM we're developing, the foam screen design is  a challenge.

1. If your are promoting FSM for M/S, it suffers the same problem.
2. Granted! (as a manufacturer, I relate to this)
3. Not a problem for end-address use, but yes, side-address would require a partially rotating top section into which the top capsule screws.. or more simply, perhaps a very thin knurled lock-rig as capsule-locking jam-nut if the threaded section of the capsule is long enough to accommodate it while still achieving a secure connection to the mic body and good conductor contact. 
4. Only for vertical-orientation side-address use when an omni Mid is desired.  Not a deal killer in my option if not available, as all your current side-address capsules would be available for use in vertical orientation. For horizontal end-address use, any of your current end-address omni capsules could be used.

5. Easy windscreen!

1. Not really, for end address MS setup, the 2 capsules of FSM setup are time align.
2. For XY or Blumlein side by side setup, since these are stereo instead of MS, horizontal time offset is not a problem, as it is much more coincident than ORTF, NOS... The space between the 2 capsules (center) are only 2.2cm.
3. Front to back capsules arrangement for MS, the distance between the capsules is about 2.5cm, which should be time align, and I think this is a problem. Although those single body stereo shotgun seems to ignore this.
I still cannot justify this, and yes, the windscreen is the easiest in this way.
Appreciate your input.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 01:27:39 AM by b9audio »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #155 on: October 03, 2019, 09:30:51 AM »
Thank you for your reply and analysis.

I'll continue my search for a suitable short stereo shotgun.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 09:32:43 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Online ts

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #156 on: October 13, 2019, 11:48:47 AM »
Maybe I missed it, but are additional cap purchases available in a matched set and what are the prices? Also I don’t see a price on the fixed cable version. Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 11:58:22 AM by ts »
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