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Author Topic: what do you make if this "24bit" show?  (Read 5815 times)

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Offline Nick's Picks

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what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« on: January 19, 2005, 04:41:30 PM »

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2005, 04:56:27 PM »
that makes no sense to me.  intuitively, adding 2 16bit sources together does not create anything other than a 16 bit source.  it may be called 24bit, but those extra bits do not contain any extra information, I wouldn't think.  unless he's got some kind of upsampling going on in whatever audio program he uses.  then it could make any 16 bit source into a 24bit source, but the software would still  just be approximating the the additional info.

Offline Tim

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2005, 05:10:45 PM »
paging an engineer.... Heath, Jason B, Bueller?
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Tim

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2005, 05:12:22 PM »
fwiw - found this in the info file... "Mixed by dan@am-dig.com"

didn't you work there Heath?
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2005, 05:23:23 PM »
I've been trying to tell Dan that I think he might be wasting his time...
he says:

When you combine two 16/44 sources to single
16/44 source, you have made a new source.  Not just a new source on
paper either but a real, living, breathing source.  The SBD + AUD matrix
mix doesn't sound like the SBD, doesn't sound like the AUD but is
actually a new animal altogether.  (This is 2 channel mind you, the 5.1
is a horse of a different color.)

What I was able to do is take the two 16/44 sources and do a 50/50
mixdown to a new 24bit source.  There was no upsampling of either
source.  The two sources combined made a single 24 bit master.  Dunno if
master is the right word but seeing as it is the only one, I guess it
is. 

The question remains the same.  Is there enough data in two 16/44
sources that when combined can make a single 24 bit version?  Wouldn't
the answer be just plain math?

FYI: I left it at 44.1, so it is a 24/44 recording.  In my experience it
is the bit depth that is much more critical than the sample rate.  Plus
the mixdown did not allow me to set the sampling frequency only the bit
depth.  I would have to "after-the-fact" change from 44 to 88 or 96,
whatever.  I did not.

Anyway.  I was doing some fun A/B on the boat playing the 24/44 and
switching to the 16/44.  The high rez seems to have lost a bit of the
harshness and sounded smoother, easier and rounder.  It is hard to find
words to describe sound but in short, I think the 24/44 matrix mix
sounded better than the identical matrix mix at 16/44.  Not a night and
day change mind you, a very subtle but also very real difference.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2005, 08:05:05 AM by Nick's Picks »

Offline Tim

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2005, 06:10:37 PM »
huh? I was giving him the benefit of the doubt until I read that...
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Tim

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2005, 06:11:47 PM »
I see he was listening while on a BOAT too...
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2005, 06:18:45 PM »
I see he was listening while on a BOAT too...

he wanted to be somewhere in the ocean where no room reflections interfered with the purity of the sound quality.  just him and the open water.

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2005, 06:19:50 PM »
Mixing two 16-bit sources = 24-bit?  I think not.  His software upsampled to 24-bit, he just doesn't know it.
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Offline Tim

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2005, 06:24:21 PM »
I know Heath worked at Am-Dig, given his knowledege and experience I kind of assumed everyone who worked there was like that... perhaps not.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Tim

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2005, 06:26:21 PM »
I see he was listening while on a BOAT too...

he wanted to be somewhere in the ocean where no room reflections interfered with the purity of the sound quality. just him and the open water.

I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline scb

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2005, 06:41:31 PM »
run it through a bit meter and see how many bits are actually being used

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2005, 06:53:29 PM »
run it through a bit meter and see how many bits are actually being used

But this won't actually address the issue.  It could very well be a 24-bit file, i.e. use all 24-bits of resolution - not from simply adding two 16-bit files, but rather from the software upsampling during processing.
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Offline dnsacks

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2005, 07:03:35 PM »
My gut reaction is to agree with DAN on this.  I would think that sum of the information contained in 2 distinct 16/44.1 sources would create more data than could be contained within a single 16/44.1k destination file without data loss occuring.  Woudn't the (or any other manipulative process) likely take place at 32bit plus to minimize data loss in the first place?

Thus, combining the 2 sources into a single higher resolution destination file would seem to not be a bad idea and the 24 bit file COULD sound quantitatively better than the 16 bit file.




Offline scb

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Re: what do you make if this "24bit" show?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2005, 07:24:11 PM »
run it through a bit meter and see how many bits are actually being used

But this won't actually address the issue.  It could very well be a 24-bit file, i.e. use all 24-bits of resolution - not from simply adding two 16-bit files, but rather from the software upsampling during processing.

yes, but what if it only shows 17 bits?  that might tell you something right there

 

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