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Author Topic: Better App for Recording  (Read 5899 times)

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Offline dmonterisi

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2003, 06:36:55 PM »
i think larger cluster size if better if you will only be storing large files like music files.  if however, there will be smaller files on there, your disk could end up being more fragmented.  I believe this is the way it ultimately came out.  Here's the best post i could find summarizing it:

"Let me shed some light on the cluster issue, including the pros and cons of
larger cluster sizes.

First, some basics. Hard drives are made up of individual areas called
sectors. Under current file systems, these are not used directly and
instead clusters are used. A cluster is made up of one or more
sectors. When you set the cluster size, you set the minimum allocation
unit that will be used for file storage. The file allocation table (FAT)
then keeps track of the clusters that a given file uses.

Larger cluster sizes means that your hard drive will spend more time
reading data out of the current cluster than going to find out where the
next cluster is. If you double your cluster size, it stands to reason the
number of FAT queries is cut in half. From a physical standpoint, every
time you move to a new cluster, you are possibly in another physical
location on your hard drive, requiring a head seek that takes time to
execute (8-11ms is common with today's high speed hard drives). Optimally,
your cluster size should be set to reflect your normal data usage. That
is, if you tend to work with 32k chunks of data, then a 32k cluster size is
optimal. However, we all know that different applications use data
differently.

For use with large data files, it is best to use larger cluster sizes. For
lots of small files, it's best to have smaller cluster sizes.

However, this leads to the problem with larger cluster sizes, namely
increased slack. Slack is simply the unused space resulting from the
storage of a small file (say 100 bytes) in a larger cluster (say 32k). 31k
of your disc is unused, though shown as allocated by the file system. So
when you increase the cluster size, you will increase the amount of room
required to store your existing files (and any future small files you may
store).

Particular to NTFS, any cluster size over 4k will disable the built-in file
compression. According to the source I used, 4k is the standard for NTFs
partitions.

The best compromise would be to create a separate audio data partition on
your hard drive, leave the cluster size at default for your OS and apps,
and increase the cluster size in your audio partition. 32k or 64k sounds
reasonable to me.

References of note include:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/index.htm
http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/file/clust.html


Greg Teltschik"

Offline nic

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2003, 06:37:09 PM »
simp_dawg...FAT32 on a 2000 or XP machine *may* be limited for back-wards compatability with pre 2000 machines...I don't know, it could just be the recording app you used has a hard-coded limitation of 2GB.
I believe(w/out checking) that 24bitfaq.org has a section on cluster sizes.


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Offline Simp-Dawg

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2003, 07:16:50 PM »
well, damon, +T to you for digging up that info.
luvean, i already +T'd you today so you'll have to wait till tomorrow! ;)
i'm using sf5.0 right now, maybe i'll try formatting to NTFS and using SF6.0 and see if that helps...it's just crazy enough to work!

now...if FAT32 on win2k or xp may be limited...what other OS's are there that use FAT32 that this can be tested on?!?!  don't mean to come off standoffish, just questioning that statement, maybe i missed something.

also, i do know of other programs that adhere to these file limitations, i don't know if it's because it's hardwired to the software coding or is a result of the file system.  for example, in outlook, the .pst file (personal folders) can only be 2gb, and then gets corrupted.  i know i've seen this happen on win2k systems, and there's no warning from the software whatsoever other than your personal folders just stop working.  soundforge at least says nope, you're recording too big of a file, sorry. well, not exactly like that ;)
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Offline MattD

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2003, 07:34:12 PM »
you don't have to reformat to go to NTFS ... use the convert filesystem command

According to the error message I got, Windows cannot defrag a partition that has a cluster size of over 4k. My "archive" drive is in 64k chunks, so how can I defrag this when the time comes?

-Matt
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rabhan

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2003, 09:07:05 PM »
you don't have to reformat to go to NTFS ... use the convert filesystem command


-Matt

directions????

Offline MattD

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2003, 09:14:32 PM »
From the help file:

Convert
Converts FAT and FAT32 volumes to NTFS. You cannot convert the current drive. If convert cannot lock the drive it will offer to convert it the next time the computer restarts.

convert [drive:] /fs:ntfs [/v]

Parameters

drive:

Specifies the drive to convert to NTFS.

/fs:ntfs

Specifies that the volume be converted to NTFS.

/v

Specifies verbose mode. All messages will be displayed during conversion.

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Offline MattD

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2003, 09:15:41 PM »
I should mention that you do this at a command prompt. Start > Run ... type "cmd" (w/o the quotes) to open the DOS prompt window, then do the above there.

-Matt
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rabhan

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2003, 09:49:34 PM »
so like this?:

c:> convert e: /fs:ntfs /v

?

Offline MattD

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2003, 10:35:06 PM »
yeah, but I didn't use the /v
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Offline Simp-Dawg

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2003, 12:38:56 AM »
From the help file:


ahh yes, spoken like a true techie...this means the same thing as "DUUUH" ;D
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Offline MattD

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2003, 07:47:33 PM »
;) Hey, I didn't say it!
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Offline zhianosatch

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2003, 09:51:02 PM »
but it's so true ;)

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2003, 01:27:44 PM »
yeah, but I didn't use the /v

is it backward compatable?

can you make these changes with data on the drive?

can you take a drive with 2 or more partitions and only change a few of them but not all of them, meaning, can you have a physical drive with 2 different file systems on it?

Offline Simp-Dawg

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2003, 02:32:02 PM »
i don't think that fat32 drives can read data on ntfs, if that factors in at all....

so thinking about the "perfect" recording software...what i would want is:
at least 24/96 capability
multitracking AND support for multiple soundcards
record each channel as it's own track OR auto-split to get around the 2GB file limit OR just be able to record larger than 2GB per wav file
STABILITY!!!!!!!
FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just dropping some ideas
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Offline mfh2014

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Re:Better App for Recording
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2003, 08:27:20 PM »
Check out Samplitude Pro...Im using version 7.02 and its running well on win2k w/ ntfs

 

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