Topic: HiMD Blues

[indietaperwloo]

Hey everyone!

I currently use a Sony MZ-NH700 as my main recorder for recording shows around town.  For mics, I use a pair of illconditioned's Sennheiser KE4-210-2's and one of his battery boxes for power.  I typically go Line-In PCM because the line stage has a lot more headroom than the mic pre with the KE4's and the analog stage actually sounds pretty decent.
Only problem is SonicStage.  I've had nothing but trouble with it lately.  I recorded a great set by a band called The Magic (featuring past and present members of bands like The Constantines, The Barmitzvah Brothers and a few other awesome relatively famous Canadian indie bands) from Guelph ON who played the Trepid House (www.trepid.org) last week and I still haven't been able to transfer The Magic's set off my MD into my computer using SonicStage.  I'm trying right now with each song as a separate tracks and I'll just thread it all together in Wavelab and you can do it pretty seamlessly too.  But it seems that SonicStage just can't take big PCM files.  It works just fine with files recorded at 256kbps ATRAC3+ but not with hour-long or more PCM files.  Anyone have a theory or know for a fact why this happens besides the fact that SonicStage sucks ass?

[dunebug81]

Are you using the latest version?

Ive recorded a full 95 min in PCM on a disc and SS has never had trouble with transfering it.

[boojum]

First thing you want to do is update SS.  SONY will be dropping it in the not too distant future.  Sorry about that.

I have not had an enduring xfer problem with SS.  It is a very poor excuse for software.  It must be written in the cheapest BASIC out there.  Anyway, never had a problem xferring PCM's to the PC.  I just used it a week or so ago and it worked just fine.

If worst comes to worst, mail me the MD and I will xfer it for you and send back the MD and a CD.


Cheers

PM me as I might not check this enough.

[indietaperwloo]

Actually, I found out what the problem might have been.  Probably the recorder got jarred while taping or it was a bad disc (it was one of the newer blue transparent discs).  And yes I have the latest version...4.3.  So, what I did to counter it was I split up the recording into separate tracks for each song in the set and I was able to isolate the song that was giving me trouble - track 8 (I don't know what the song title was).  I then transferred all the good tracks as normal via USB and I was able to play back the bad track and transfer it via analog through my mixer and out to my sound card.  After that, I threaded all the tracks together in Wavelab using the "add file at end" feature.  The only flaw in the recording was an 800ms silence gap about 90 seconds into track 8.

I have a really important concert coming up with my friends' band Knock Knock Ginger (www.myspace.com/knockknockginger) that I want to be sure there are absolutely no problems with.  They are debuting some new songs that will be recorded over the summer on their first full-length album (they've already done 2 five-song EP's) and their former bass player's band from Montreal are also on the bill so it will be a very special evening.  The show will be performed at the Grist Mill in Waterloo, Ontario - a replica of a mill structure from the mid 19th century.  The location was originally Trepid House but due to an encounter with Waterloo's Finest, the location was changed (no confirmation but it makes sense).  As far as taping goes, I plan to use a Sennheiser KE4-210-2 based binaural rig and a rented Edirol R-09 which will eliminate the need for a battery box and the need for me to carry a flashlight all the time as the MZ-NH700 I currently use has no backlight on it.

I know about Sony dropping the ATRAC format and SonicStage and I think the HiMD format had great potential and could have easily been a DAT replacement or a more cost-effective alternative to flash-based recorders.  It sounds pretty decent too - low S/N ratio, transparent analog stage and ADC, all for around $200 at the time I bought it.  Plus the discs are relatively cheap too compared to even the lowest priced 1GB SD card.  CF is still really expensive too...I remember paying $175 in 2006 for a 2 gig CF card for a rented Edirol R-1 I was using to record a board mix of live music from a wedding I was running sound for.  I even had to get a card-reader because I had to return the R-01 the next day.

So, the crisis is averted for now but while I haven't lost faith in the HiMD format, I'm starting to think my once-trusty MZ-NH700 isn't as reliable as it used to be.  Maybe I should have it looked at or something because, like I mentioned earlier, I've been losing a lot of great musical moments because of it.

[Ozpeter]

Plus the discs are relatively cheap too compared to even the lowest priced 1GB SD card.

Here in Australia the price for reputable 1GB SD cards is about the same as for a Hi-MD disk.

All I'd say about your overall problem is - soak test at home, several times, before the next gig.

[SpareRibs]

I've also had the HiMD blues too with Sonic stage and the mini disc player itself. I was so mad that in anger,  I actually threw it against the wall and smashed it as the player had destroyed one of the tracks. I'm through with Sony mini disc. They are history for me and I just joined the Edirol team.

[dunebug81]

I've also had the HiMD blues too with Sonic stage and the mini disc player itself. I was so mad that in anger,  I actually threw it against the wall and smashed it as the player had destroyed one of the tracks. I'm through with Sony mini disc. They are history for me and I just joined the Edirol team.

It was the software that destroyed one of the tracks and not the unit itself.

[boyacrobat]

himd here for a good time (you had em) not a long time
tme to move on unless you big fan of the blues

g

[jacobmyers]

I've also had the HiMD blues too with Sonic stage and the mini disc player itself. I was so mad that in anger,  I actually threw it against the wall and smashed it as the player had destroyed one of the tracks. I'm through with Sony mini disc. They are history for me and I just joined the Edirol team.

It was the software that destroyed one of the tracks and not the unit itself.

And you verify this how? Sorry, dude, but how exactly do you know what did what on SpareRibs's machine? You can -T me all you want but there's simply no way to be certain that it wasn't hardware failure without having the actual MD in your hands (and known-good equipment to play it back).

 I've had several MD units "spontaneously" fail during recording (or playback). They simply wore out. I never dropped or otherwise abused them. I basically treated my MD equipment as if it was a Faberge egg and they still failed. Granted, these were not HiMD (because I refused to spend more money on a dying medium) but I don't imagine that much has changed in the way MDs are physically recorded since 1992. It's still a magneto-optical disc. The data density is just higher now than it was then.

 The main problem with MD (apart from the 1/8" inputs) is that there are moving parts (and seemingly no write buffer whatsoever) in the recording mechanism. Said moving parts are Extremely Delicate. And judging by what I've read and experienced, whatever "spring" helps to steady the laser/magnet during writing loosens up as time goes on. Eventually, that mechanism becomes sensitive enough to vibration that it will actually "skip" during recording, simply from the vibration of the music. The recorder loses data (which more or less destroys the recording).

 When my MZR700 failed (with a brand-new "gold" disc) during a paid gig, I had to hold myself back from throwing it across the room. I had another opportunity to record the group (and brought some foam to cushion the recorder) but that was the last paying gig I took with that machine. The second problem with MD equipment is that it's not worth repairing it anymore. When a brand new solid-state device costs less than twice as much as "repairing" a destined-to-fail MD unit, there's no reason to keep pouring money into MD.

indietaperwloo: I definitely feel your pain. Good luck with your future recording with the R-09 (my "distant second" choice when I was looking for a solid-state recorder). SD cards are nearly indestructible (I've used them in photography for a while and have had nothing but joy). Not sure I can say that about the R-09 but it is, by reputation, a fairly solid 1/8" rig (at the very least, you won't have issues with "normal" vibration).

[dunebug81]

I've also had the HiMD blues too with Sonic stage and the mini disc player itself. I was so mad that in anger,  I actually threw it against the wall and smashed it as the player had destroyed one of the tracks. I'm through with Sony mini disc. They are history for me and I just joined the Edirol team.

It was the software that destroyed one of the tracks and not the unit itself.

And you verify this how? Sorry, dude, but how exactly do you know what did what on SpareRibs's machine? You can -T me all you want but there's simply no way to be certain that it wasn't hardware failure without having the actual MD in your hands (and known-good equipment to play it back).

 I've had several MD units "spontaneously" fail during recording (or playback). They simply wore out. I never dropped or otherwise abused them. I basically treated my MD equipment as if it was a Faberge egg and they still failed. Granted, these were not HiMD (because I refused to spend more money on a dying medium) but I don't imagine that much has changed in the way MDs are physically recorded

 since 1992. It's still a magneto-optical disc. The data density is just higher now than it was then.

 The main problem with MD (apart from the 1/8" inputs) is that there are moving parts (and seemingly no write buffer whatsoever) in the recording mechanism. Said moving parts are Extremely Delicate. And judging by what I've read and experienced, whatever "spring" helps to steady the laser/magnet during writing loosens up as time goes on. Eventually, that mechanism becomes sensitive enough to vibration that it will actually "skip" during recording, simply from the vibration of the music. The recorder loses data (which more or less destroys the recording).

 When my MZR700 failed (with a brand-new "gold" disc) during a paid gig, I had to hold myself back from throwing it across the room. I had another opportunity to record the group (and brought some foam to cushion the recorder) but that was the last paying gig I took with that machine. The second problem with MD equipment is that it's not worth repairing it anymore. When a brand new solid-state device costs less than twice as much as "repairing" a destined-to-fail MD unit, there's no reason to keep pouring money into MD.

indietaperwloo: I definitely feel your pain. Good luck with your future recording with the R-09 (my "distant second" choice when I was looking for a solid-state recorder). SD cards are nearly indestructible (I've used them in photography for a while and have had nothing but joy). Not sure I can say that about the R-09 but it is, by reputation, a fairly solid 1/8" rig (at the very least, you won't have issues with "normal" vibration).

Well the SS software is known to be buggy (at least the earlier versions were).  If it was a bad disc then he would have lost the entire disc but since he only lost one track, to me, that would be the software having issues.

Ive only owned 3 MDs.  1 Sharp that I used from 01 to 05 and that thing was pretty much rock solid except for the few times I didnt have a fully charged battery. Then I got a HIMD when it came out and it has always worked like a champ for me.  The RH10 was a great unit...a little slow on uploads but overall it was excellent with both an internal and external battery and a nice bright screen for monitoring levels and such. 

[jacobmyers]

I've also had the HiMD blues too with Sonic stage and the mini disc player itself. I was so mad that in anger,  I actually threw it against the wall and smashed it as the player had destroyed one of the tracks. I'm through with Sony mini disc. They are history for me and I just joined the Edirol team.

It was the software that destroyed one of the tracks and not the unit itself.

And you verify this how? Sorry, dude, but how exactly do you know what did what on SpareRibs's machine? You can -T me all you want but there's simply no way to be certain that it wasn't hardware failure without having the actual MD in your hands (and known-good equipment to play it back).
<snip>

Well the SS software is known to be buggy (at least the earlier versions were).  If it was a bad disc then he would have lost the entire disc but since he only lost one track, to me, that would be the software having issues.

Ive only owned 3 MDs.  1 Sharp that I used from 01 to 05 and that thing was pretty much rock solid except for the few times I didnt have a fully charged battery. Then I got a HIMD when it came out and it has always worked like a champ for me.  The RH10 was a great unit...a little slow on uploads but overall it was excellent with both an internal and external battery and a nice bright screen for monitoring levels and such. 

 OK. I agree that it could've been the software being buggy (and the fact that Sony ships their recorders with proprietary USB transfer software is nauseating enough without thinking about the fact that it may or may not work properly). The loss of the track could also have been the effect of the recorder's laser focusing mechanism "deciding" that even the vibration of the spinning disc is too much to deal with. I've had players work "just fine" one minute and up and quit the next. Literally. And then (after inserting and removing the disc however many times it takes to "trick" the machine into working) it once again works. With the SAME disc.

 MiniDisc is unreliable. Period.

 In any case, Ribs put the damned thing out of its misery. Good for you, Ribs.