Topic: schoeps mid/side option

[panther65]

Hi-I currently have Schoeps MK-4 caps with the KCY active cable going into the Schoeps VMS-5U mic preamp. I would like to explore mid/side with this preamp. Do I simply need a figure 8 capsule to complete this? Schoeps makes the MK-8. Would I then just use 1 mk-4 and 1 mk-8 to make a mid-side recording?
Also, is anyone using this setup? And with what kind of results?

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Hi-I currently have Schoeps MK-4 caps with the KCY active cable going into the Schoeps VMS-5U mic preamp. I would like to explore mid/side with this preamp. Do I simply need a figure 8 capsule to complete this? Schoeps makes the MK-8. Would I then just use 1 mk-4 and 1 mk-8 to make a mid-side recording?
Also, is anyone using this setup? And with what kind of results?

That would be enough (the mk4 and mk8) together to make a midside recording that will need to be decoded in post (generally recommended). With that setup, you'll need to either do it by hand or get a VST plugin to use with your audio editor of choice.

[Brian Skalinder]

Yup, that's all you'd need:  add an MK8.  I love the Schoeps M/S sound - think it's a great option, and I prefer decoding in post.  I no longer own Schoeps gear, but think they offer a great sounding M/S configuration.  That said, I also liked retaining the option to run near-coincident configurations (like cardioids DIN or ORTF, etc.).  If you already have the MK4s, adding a single MK8 to run M/S gives you great options:  MK4s near-coincident, or MK4/MK8 Mid-Side with control over the stereo width in post.  If your budget supports an MK8, I say go for it!

[boojum]

I use the "Schoeps M-S" which is the CMC64 + CMC68.  I am using the connectors between the CMC's and the caps now.  It makes a smaller package to shove in front of the performers.  I like running it.  I decode in post, too.  But I can decode during on my SD 7xx.  Either way I do get to fiddle with it in post.  I just ran a recording of Freak Mountain Ramblers doing a benefit in Cannon Beach, OR.  I was in very close, right at the edge of the platform.  So the F-8 was good.  I narrowed it in post by reducing the F-8 some and pumping of the card to get it more "in front" than spread out.  I also fed in a board tap, mono only, and folded that in at a low level.  Too high and it screws up the stereo effect.  The band's PA's sucked and distorted a lot but it was a good night.

The plus is being able to play with it in post.  If I had run X-Y I could also play with the spread using the VoxNGo MS plugin which will take ordinary stereo tracks, make the MS, and then decode them back in the ratio you select.  Yes, you can preview the new ratio.  This makes using the MS a moot point, I suppose, but I stick with it anyway.  I am not sure I could have been is as close as I was with the MS using XY last night.  I know I could be in that close with MS.

Try it, play with it and have fun.  You can try running the teo Mk4's and playing with the VoxNGo decoder, too, to see how you like it.  You may no need a Mk8 to do faux MS.

[DSatz]

boojum, just to add to your points: If you record the M and S signals themselves--the direct feed from the two mikes--and defer the translation to L/R stereo until later, you can vary the proportion of S to M as you wish. But you can also equalize the M and S channels separately before you translate them to L/R stereo, and enhance the recording or compensate for room problems in some cases.

One thing I often do in my classical recordings is increase the low frequencies in the S channel to give more of a sense of spaciousness--something that coincident stereo recordings often lack. Objectively this increases the total low frequency output of the playback somewhat, but only by about half the boost you apply--and there's often a surprising amount of room for play before things start to sound unrealistic.

In my case I'm using a Schoeps figure-8 for the S signal, and this type of capsule has a somewhat rolled-off low-frequency response to begin with. So up to a point I'm just "restoring" the flat response of the figure-8; that's legitimate. But if you're going to do this kind of thing, a good shock mount becomes more important; figure-8 microphones are more sensitive to solid-borne sound and vibration (and also wind or other direct air motion, for that matter) than other patterns of microphones.

--best regards

[boojum]

David, good point.  I had not thought of that.  Just another reason to keep reading what is on this board.  Yup, I could add a dash of low end to the S track.  I record them "native" myself.  Thanks for the tip!

Cheers

[Craig T]

all schoeps m/s:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taraszki%20AND%20mk8%20AND%20collection%3Aetree&sort=-publicdate

[Nick's Picks]

I've been running MK4/MK8 > KCY > VST62ui for a while now and am really loving it.
mid-side is a blast.  I do it in post, and sometimes "on the fly" w/my Apogee MMP M-S decoding ability. Good in-ear monitors is a must for that, but its easy and comes out very pleasing.  If not, I "encode" back to mid-side and then re-mix..but I never feel the need.

mixing in post is best, but takes more commitment in time/effort.

I believe your VMS will also decode and output normal L/R channels when using M+S.

[dev0n]

all schoeps m/s:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taraszki%20AND%20mk8%20AND%20collection%3Aetree&sort=-publicdate

FANTASTIC sounds ... I've been noodling with M/S recording and post with CuBase SX, and this makes me want to get proper mics for the job :-)

[boojum]

A cautionary word: MS is not the answer.  It works OK in some places for some situations.  I like it for setup and tape in a hurry situations.  When I can scope out the venue ahead of time and get the mics placed by listening and moving I may come up with something entirely different. For quick and dirty MS is pretty hard to beat, however.

[shaggy]

Any combo involving a mid-card (mk21,22,4,41) and a side-figure 8 (mk6,8) will work.