Topic: Help! is this a mic or recorder problem?

[MSTaper]

I'm recording with the Avantone CK1>stock FR-2LE at my usual haunt. Everything starts out fine, levels are fine, but about 10 minutes in, my left channel shoots up into clipping territory and decreasing the trim on the deck does very little. This is not the first time this has happened. My previous four or five outings, no problems whatsoever. FYI, the mics were used (but work fine) and the deck is new.

Would this be a mic problem or a recorder problem? It's happened with the card and hyper caps on the mics. It doesn't happen every time.

During the set break, I swapped mic cables (left to right and right to left) and it was fine the rest of the show.

I haven't been able to isolate the problem and was hoping someone with more experience might have an opinion.

MSTaper

[SmokinJoe]

I'm recording with the Avantone CK1>stock FR-2LE at my usual haunt. Everything starts out fine, levels are fine, but about 10 minutes in, my left channel shoots up into clipping territory and decreasing the trim on the deck does very little. This is not the first time this has happened. My previous four or five outings, no problems whatsoever. FYI, the mics were used (but work fine) and the deck is new.

Would this be a mic problem or a recorder problem? It's happened with the card and hyper caps on the mics. It doesn't happen every time.

During the set break, I swapped mic cables (left to right and right to left) and it was fine the rest of the show.

I haven't been able to isolate the problem and was hoping someone with more experience might have an opinion.

MSTaper

Questions:
- What does it sound like when this happens?" That might give a clue. 
- When this problem kicks in, does it suddenly go back to normal on it's own?  Or does it stay until you power down and back up?
- Does it always happen on Left (or Right) channel?

The usual solution is "process of elimination"... Go to a show with a buddy, swap mics... if he has the problem and you don't then it's in the mics.  If you have the problem it's in the recorder... that kind of thing.

Mark the mics A and B.  Run Left = A until you have the problem, then start running Left = B.  If the problem move with the mics, then it's in the mics.  If it stays put, it's in the recorder.

Realistically, it sounds like a very intermittant problem.  You don't have to do this testing at an expensive show... it if it's an electrical issue, it should show up in your living room as much as it does at a show.  If it's a bad connection on a cable, you can set the rig up at home, and wiggle the ends near the mics and recorder a bit and see if it goes nuts.

[guysonic]

Because the deck is new, and the input trim had little or no effect, I'd suspect the deck. 

[MSTaper]

I'm recording with the Avantone CK1>stock FR-2LE at my usual haunt. Everything starts out fine, levels are fine, but about 10 minutes in, my left channel shoots up into clipping territory and decreasing the trim on the deck does very little. This is not the first time this has happened. My previous four or five outings, no problems whatsoever. FYI, the mics were used (but work fine) and the deck is new.

Would this be a mic problem or a recorder problem? It's happened with the card and hyper caps on the mics. It doesn't happen every time.

During the set break, I swapped mic cables (left to right and right to left) and it was fine the rest of the show.

I haven't been able to isolate the problem and was hoping someone with more experience might have an opinion.

MSTaper

Questions:
- What does it sound like when this happens?" That might give a clue. 
- When this problem kicks in, does it suddenly go back to normal on it's own?  Or does it stay until you power down and back up?
- Does it always happen on Left (or Right) channel?

The usual solution is "process of elimination"... Go to a show with a buddy, swap mics... if he has the problem and you don't then it's in the mics.  If you have the problem it's in the recorder... that kind of thing.

Mark the mics A and B.  Run Left = A until you have the problem, then start running Left = B.  If the problem move with the mics, then it's in the mics.  If it stays put, it's in the recorder.

Realistically, it sounds like a very intermittant problem.  You don't have to do this testing at an expensive show... it if it's an electrical issue, it should show up in your living room as much as it does at a show.  If it's a bad connection on a cable, you can set the rig up at home, and wiggle the ends near the mics and recorder a bit and see if it goes nuts.

What does it sound like? Like your levels were fine and someone turned them all the way up. I've included a clip!
It hasn't gone back to normal on it's own and didn't return to normal when I shut off and turned the deck back on. It only stopped when I swapped mic cables (left to right, right to left).
So far, it's only been on the right channel and it happens every so often. Other taping outings have been error free as far as that issues goes!

As far as swapping mics with someone, I'm the only taper in this area that I know of. I wiggled some cables at the club, but nothing.

Thanks for the help. Be careful with the clip, the chance at about 15 seconds is fairly dramatic.

MSTaper

[stevetoney]

It doesn't sound like the problem, but sometimes a soundcard can be the problem.  They can go bad or I once had a situation where the card wasn't fast enough...in that case the card erratically responded to the input.  What was weird is that it didn't start acting up until well after the show started, then I would get 5 second blasts of diginoise every so often, like every 30 seconds or so.  I can't remember if the diginoise was in one channel or both simultaneously.  Like I said though, doesn't sound like your problem but the card might be something to rule out when doing your diagnosis.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Given the weather at this time of year in most places and the description, I wonder if it might be a condensation/moisture related mic problem.

Does it always happen with the same mic?

[MSTaper]

As for the last question, I didn't mark the mic the first time this happened so I don't know. (I plan on doing that) The rig rode in my car to the venue and it was inside the entire time. It never got cold.

As far as the CF card, I'm almost certain it's only happened with the 16gb A-Data "Speedy" that I started using. I don't think it happened with the SanDisk 4gb.

But it's odd that I can go out several times and not have this occur. I will say that the band was very bassy, very bassy, but I didn't think I was overloading the pre, if that could be a possibility. And it was only one channel.


Thanks for all the theories. They give me something else to work with.


MSTaper

[DaveG73]

I am not 100% familiar with the gear, but I believe the FR2LE is XLR in. (Don't really have time to Google right now).

Check to ensure that the pins in your XLR cables are comletely straight/secure. I had an issue running into a UA5 which was not exactly like your sample, but similar in circumstances and unpredictability. I had one pin on one of my cables that was slightly loose which meant it wasn't always making clean contact.

HTH

Dave.

[kcmule]

Given the weather at this time of year in most places and the description, I wonder if it might be a condensation/moisture related mic problem.

I've had similar problems with my akg480's (hyper and card) and it's seems
to me that when they do act up it is in a moist enviroment but haven't been
able to really prove that.  I'll go many many shows with no issue and all of a
sudden it's an issue then back to normal for many more shows.  It's very odd
and tends to piss one off.

I've expierenced this with different cables, recorders, but same mics.  It crossed
my mind that it might be a mic body issue but I think it'd be more consistent if it
were damaged.

I haven't heard the posted clip yet.  The problem I've had, the wav form always
looks the same.