Topic: Countryman B3 vs Naiant omnis, clips for download

[Massive Dynamic]

I recently bought, and then promptly sold, a pair of Countryman B3 omnis after recording several shows and comparing recordings made in similar circumstances with the Naiant MSH-1OX. I purchased the MSH-1OX about 4 years ago, and they are the predecessor to the current X-X series*. The Countryman B3 run about $400 per pair, while the Naiant run just over $100.

These recordings should not be considered a true comp. I have only one recorder, but the recordings were made on the same evening at the same venue in the same configuration in the same location. Files are all 24-bit flacs, peak normalized to -0.1db. I can appreciate the incongruity of posting large 24-bit files of a sub-$100 pair of mics, but here they are. EDIT: the flat frequency response grids were used on all B3 recordings.

The recordings fall into three categories:
1. Living room recordings
2. Glasses-mounted, FOB, in a club
3. Festival sets under tents


1. Living room recordings
These are the recordings we all make when getting new gear. I am not sure they are particularly helpful, but here they are. There are four clips in this group: two different songs recorded by the two different mics.

77s, Unbalanced http://www.sendspace.com/file/w0s87z
Iona, Everything Changes http://www.sendspace.com/file/2fckoc
Countryman B3 (mini j-disc) > Fostex FR-2le (24/48) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )

77s, Unbalanced http://www.sendspace.com/file/u3qiav
Iona, Everything Changes http://www.sendspace.com/file/8xwbmn
Naiant MSH-1OX (mini j-disc) > Fostex FR-2le (24/48) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )

2. Glasses-mounted, FOB, in a club
Rubik, David Bazan, and mewithoutYou played at the Outland Ballroom in Springfield, MO, on June 18, 2010. I was able to stake out the spot I thought sounded best and stayed there all night. No windscreens were used on either mic.

Rubik; added 4.5db http://www.sendspace.com/file/ryycm3
David Bazan, 1st half of show; added 9.5db http://www.sendspace.com/file/yz2b61
Naiant MSH-1OX (glasses-mounted) > Fostex FR-2le (24/44.1) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )

David Bazan, 2nd half of show; added 13.2db http://www.sendspace.com/file/ku3iry
mewithoutYou; added 5.5db http://www.sendspace.com/file/4fmu5c
Countryman B3 (glasses-mounted) > Fostex FR-2le (24/44.1) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )

3. Festival sets under tents
I was able to make several recordings at the same spot, and I mounted the mics on two identical mini j-disks in very close proximity (see photo). Between sets, I would swap out cables, but the stand was untouched. The Naiants are mounted on the lower disc. Windscreens were used on all festival recordings.


June 30, 2010
Michael Roe (singer-songwriter); added 5.4db, 3 tracks
http://www.sendspace.com/file/yiyg09
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4qlf0d
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ytgiwp
Naiant MSH-1OX (mini j-disk) > Fostex FR-2le (24/44.1) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )

June 30, 2010
Terry Taylor (folk); added 8.7db http://www.sendspace.com/file/8yn9eg
Countryman B3 (mini j-disk) > Fostex FR-2le (24/44.1) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )


July 1, 2010
Eastern Block (Nashville rock); added 4.4db http://www.sendspace.com/file/u4ghli
July 1, 2010
Kate York (singer-songwriter); added 9.7db http://www.sendspace.com/file/pmb878
Naiant MSH-1OX (mini j-disk) > Fostex FR-2le (24/44.1) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )

July 1, 2010
The Farewell Drifters (bluegrass); added 1.5db http://www.sendspace.com/file/10gfdt
July 1, 2010
The Wayside (gospel); added 9db http://www.sendspace.com/file/wl6fhk
Countryman B3 (mini j-disk) > Fostex FR-2le (24/44.1) > Sample Manager (peak normalize to -0.1db) > xACT (flac 8 )

*Jon confirmed that the X-X series uses the same capsule and cases as the MSH-1OX. The X-X series has better SPL handling, lower power consumption, better interference resistance, and surface mount components. Sonically, it should be nearly indistinguishable from the mics used to make these recordings.

[spcyrfc]

nice comp.
cant wait to listen

[weroflu]

i looked at the x-x frequency plot, and it is up almost 12db from 5k-20k.

in the description it says these mics are essentially flat from 20-20. am i missing something?

what are the flattest naiant mic models?

[yates7592]

I shall be very interested to listen to the samples, thanks.

I just pulled the trigger on a pair of B3's, not had chance to use them properly yet, I've got a horrible feeling you're going to tell me i made the wrong decision.....

[illconditioned]

I shall be very interested to listen to the samples, thanks.

I just pulled the trigger on a pair of B3's, not had chance to use them properly yet, I've got a horrible feeling you're going to tell me i made the wrong decision.....

I don't have time to listen, but you will not regret the B3.  These are an excellent mic.  As far as I know, they are the most realistic mic out there, at least one that still sounds great on music.  The other candidate is the Nevaton MKE400, which is comparable, or just a bit better.

I have to say the Panasonic WM60/61 that the Naint and other mics are based on are very good.  I go back to my earlier recordings, and these guys often sound better than AT853, and many other cardioid mics I have used since.  Earthworks and others use the Panasonic type capsules for a reason!  It is amazing how good of a recording you can get from a mass-produced and very inexpensive capsule.  By the way, I read that this capsule is mylar, 3.5 micron, Nickel-Chrome metalized.

I find the B3 really shine when you have something that is either ambient or fully acoustic.  The best way to test a mic is take something you are really familiar with, like the voices of your family members, or some place your are familiar with, like your kitchen.  Record a few minutes of audio with both mics.  Then play that back.  Sometimes it helps to listen to just a mono recording, other times, spaced or baffled mics.  Anyway, the B3 will win this contest hands down.

  Richard

[yates7592]

Listened now and both mics sound fine. B3 samples sound slightly warmer to me with more bottom end. This bodes well for me in the future with my new red-band B3's, also Richard's comments give me further assurance.

I'm interested, why did you get rid of your B3's, my cloth ears can't detect anything undesirable with your B3 samples.

[Massive Dynamic]

Listened now and both mics sound fine. B3 samples sound slightly warmer to me with more bottom end. This bodes well for me in the future with my new red-band B3's, also Richard's comments give me further assurance.

I'm interested, why did you get rid of your B3's, my cloth ears can't detect anything undesirable with your B3 samples.

Listening to the first show I recorded, mewithoutYou, I was rather disappointed to hear some harsh HF response. For acoustic or ambient music, the B3 may shine, but if the band has a drum kit, maybe not. There is a fine line between crisp and brittle, and I think the B3 crosses it on occasion.

I had high hopes that the B3 would be significantly better than the Naiant, but not to my ears. For five times what I paid for the Naiant, there just wasn't enough of an improvement, and in some instances, not even as good as the Naiant. The B3 is a fine mic, but I'm big on price-vs-performance. Some here will pay through the nose for the smallest improvement; I am not one of those people.

Everyone's ears are different, and that's one of the reasons I wanted to post these samples. I don't think there are many 24-bit samples of either mic available, so I wanted to let others hear for themselves how good both mics are in different scenarios.

[Gutbucket]

Thanks for putting up the samples, Clive.

The X-X is a diffuse-field type omni whereas the other mics I correct to much closer to free-field on-axis response, although I left a bit of a lift above 10kHz such that the 90 degree off-axis is dead flat on the X-M.  The diffuse/free-field makes no difference when used as a lapel mic, and the other use is with a baffle as in this test where you'd want a diffuse response.  With that in mind I left the X-X's response alone.

The X-W is technically the flattest on-axis but drops off rapidly off-axis due to its disc.

^^^^
I think this is the biggest contributing factor here, which makes sense as frequency response differences will usually be the most apparent difference between similar mics.  It was not mentioned which if any of the available equalization grids were used on the B3s, which is important to consider.

Personally, I don't not want a ruler-flat measurement mic type response for most of the recording I do with omnis, since I'm typically using them in diffuse field conditions much more than free field.  When I do get them very close to the source, I simply eq the recording to cut the excess highs if necessary.  A smooth response without resonances is much more important to me than a flat response, one that is close to the sound I want to begin with and is smooth enough to be able to handle enough careful eq manipulation if necessary to get it were I want it.

[Massive Dynamic]

Thanks for putting up the samples, Clive.
==
It was not mentioned which if any of the available equalization grids were used on the B3s, which is important to consider.

Ah yes, I forgot to specify, but I used the flat frequency response grids on all recordings. I've added this info to the op, and also specified which recordings used windscreens.

Here is another B3 sample so you can hear how good they can be. Split 3' at an outdoor stage. I don't have a similar Naiant sample for comparison which is why I didn't post it earlier. I eq'd out some of the low bass for my listening copy, but this sample has only been peak normalized; no other processing.
Switchfoot, Love Is A Song > Free http://www.sendspace.com/file/g1a30a

[weroflu]

john:

do you think you would ever consider making/marketing a simple untuned linkwitz micro (about as big as the b3) wm61a capsule mic that runs on pip?