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Author Topic: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?  (Read 2916 times)

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Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« on: December 05, 2011, 10:50:59 PM »
So I've looked at getting a pair of subcards for crazy loud environments (reaching the 135-140spl range), and there are really just two makers that come close to what I'm after, the DPA 4015s and the Schoeps MK21s. While reading over specs, I see what appears to be two different levels. 1% THD and "max peak." Schoeps states a max SPL of the mk21Hs as 134spl for 0.5% THD while the new DPA 4015s (when paired with the mmp-c body) just state voltage numbers but no (easy) 1% THD numbers. Ironically, their older 4028 series had both figures (116spl for 1% and a max of 145, I'm actually surprised the 1% number is that low).

So how do I go about comparing to see if the new mmp-c body and caps will handle at least 135-140spl?

Second, do the schoeps just crap out at that level or what happens? If they can go higher, how much higher before it's bad?

Any ideas?
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline aaronji

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 01:24:27 AM »
Check out the page for the combination of the compact body with the wide cardioid cap (http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=234&item=24390#specifications).  It shows both figures (THD < 1 % up to 139 dB SPL peak and Max. SPL, peak before clipping: 152 dB)...

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 08:52:31 AM »
Check out the page for the combination of the compact body with the wide cardioid cap (http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=234&item=24390#specifications).  It shows both figures (THD < 1 % up to 139 dB SPL peak and Max. SPL, peak before clipping: 152 dB)...

gratzie! I thought I'd seen it once before but couldn't find it again.

So that answers the first question. Now onto the second. Thanks!
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline aaronji

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2011, 12:05:58 AM »
^^^ My pleasure!  If you decide to go the DPA route, consider getting the matched pair.  About $75 more than buying just the two mics, which gets you the matching, a nice box, foams, and holders.  Some photos here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=141025.msg1926754#msg1926754...

No help with question number two, though!

Offline DSatz

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 11:37:33 PM »
The capsule of any normal condenser microphone can handle far higher sound pressure levels than the circuitry can. The maximum SPL is therefore the limit imposed by the circuitry. Above that limit there's a steady increase in distortion with rising input levels. But it isn't generally a "brick wall" (hard clipping) condition unless you have a saturating output transformer, and output transformers aren't used in most of the better microphones made in the past few decades.

The SPL at which the distortion starts to increase substantially isn't necessarily the manufacturer's stated maximum SPL, either, since some manufacturers are far more conservative in their ratings than others. If a microphone is conservatively rated then you can still get good sound quality somewhat above the specified level. I've measured microphones from Schoeps and Neumann and have found them to be quite conservatively rated.

I believe, however, that most other manufacturers aren't as conservative with their ratings. And while I've never measured a DPA microphone, I wouldn't group that company with Schoeps or Neumann with regard to measurement and specification practices in general. They measure things "their way." Unfortunately this can make for real problems if you try to compare their published specifications with those of other manufacturers. I am sorry to say that, because their microphones are excellent without a doubt, and of course their original parent company (B & K) has been famous for decades as a supplier of acoustical measurement equipment.

--I'm attaching a graph that I made a few years back when I compared two older Neumann microphone bodies, one modified and one stock. The trace at the bottom shows the stock microphone. You can see that at 6 dB above its rated limit of 120 dB SPL (equivalent), the unmodified microphone is still doing quite nicely. A few dB later, transformer saturation starts to set in and by 130 dB SPL (equivalent), the distortion reaches a level that I would rather avoid.

Schoeps and Neumann transformerless microphones tend to be rated at ca. 130 dB SPL for 0.5% or lower THD; if you accept 1% (as I would do), you can add a few dB more to that number. I can't hear less than about 3% low-order THD, so I see nothing wrong with using 1% as the standard rather than 0.5%. I think that the 0.5% limit (which isn't mandated in any standard--it's just industry practice since the end of the vacuum-tube era) came about only because microphone manufacturers back in the 1970s felt embarrassed to be quoting a 1% distortion spec in an era when some hi-fi amplifiers were quoting 0.001% distortion or even lower.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 11:55:32 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 08:35:38 AM »
^^ Thanks!

I think I know 2 folks in town with 4028s and mk21s so I may see if I can do a test run with each.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline MIQ

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 01:32:07 AM »
DSatz,

It's nice to have access to an MA measurement adaptor  ;D

I was thinking about how hard it would be to try to set up a low distortion source at 120+ dB.  The pistonphones I've seen only get to 114.  I'm sure there's a way but I'm not exposed to that kind of stuff. 

If the electronics could handle it, do you have a feeling for how much SPL the normal condenser capsule could handle? 

Thanks for sharing this plot.  Nice mod (not)  :P

-MIQ

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2011, 06:31:50 PM »
Hi, MIQ--sorry for the delay in replying. With modern Mylar capsules, I think you could handle SPLs in the 150-160 dB SPL range pretty well. At that point your hearing would be gone within seconds and you'd be risking a heart attack just from being in the presence of that volume of sound--but the important thing is, your microphone capsules would still be functioning.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Re: Comparing "Max SPL @ 0.5% & 1% THD" ratings with "Max Peak"?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2011, 10:04:15 PM »
Thanks! 

-MIQ

 

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