Topic: Recording via remote desktop

[jmilo61]

I need some advice.  I'm open to the idea that what I'm looking for may not be possible (at least with my limited budget).

I need help selecting a PC audio interface.  I have a very specific application that probably isn't very common.
 
I do archiving for a small rock club, however I cannot always be there due to my job.  I would like to setup a PC with a multi-channel audio interface.  When I'm out of town, I can remote desktop into the PC and do multi-channel SBD recording of shows remotely.
 
Here are my requirements for the audio interface:
 
-at least 16 channels (analog 1/4" or xlr)
 
-functions must largely be controlled by the PC software, since I won't physically be there to turn knobs and press buttons.  I realize this is probably a near impossible requirement, as most everything will have gain control knobs.  But I can just leave the gains turned down low when I not present.
 
-Pre-amps are not important, as I will be recording from the direct outs on the soundboard
 
-cost preferably $500 or less, certainly would have to be less than $1000.  This is only for audio interface, not including the PC and cables and whatever else.
 
-must record all channels independently so I can mix later
 
The Echo AudioFire12 caught my eye as something that looked almost exactly like what I need, except that it only has 12 inputs.  I can daisy chain two of those together, but at $599 each, two is over my budget.  I'd also prefer USB2.0 interface over firewire, I think.  Someone here can probably tell me if I'm stupid for thinking that or not.
 
I'm not familiar with recording multi-channel to PC, so I'm open to suggestions on other ways to accomplish this as long as it meets the basic requirements above.

The other option is to mount some room mics and run them into a stereo interface and just do that, with no soundboard.  This is obviously easier, and should have no problem fitting in my budget.
 
Please offer any help or suggestions.  I'd like to hear all suggestions, even if it's not within my budget.

Is there any way this, or something similar is possible?
 
Thanks,
  Milo

[page]

A couple of questions:

1) Do you have the support of the sound staff? How willing to do things for you?
2) How often are you anticipating using more than 12 tracks?

I can picture micing 8-12, but getting more than 12 is tough (yeah, you typically burn 5 or so on a drum kit, but the rest would require basically everyone singing). Especially at a small club, there will be only so many tracks they will likely be able to handle unless they went big on the equipment purchase.

So a couple options. You can look at something like the Alesis HD24 which gets you 24 inputs if you really think you're going to get a ton of tracks often. Alternatively, you can get a 12 track input and then have a mixer (say, 4 or 6 channels) which handles subgroups and feeds out 1 or 2 tracks into the core 8. Either of these options will require someone onsite to do something (how much or what depends on what you get). If you get something like the Alesis, then look for a system that will start recording when it sees power (and won't lose it's stuff when it loses power while recording), and plug it into the same power that the sbd is on so it comes on and shuts off with the board (and thus you don't need to be there). If you decide to get 2 interfaces, make sure they can clock off each other, otherwise it's a waste as resyncing discrete tracks sucks.

In the interim, I'd consider the following: a sacrificial laptop that is stable and only has just enough installed for software to do the recording and RD connection (and thats it). Then add a 12 or 16 track interface (preferably used to cut costs). Work with the sound folks to see if you can get direct outs of say channels 1-10 and then a submix of channels 11-16 or whatever and try and always get the drums or something else placed there. Alternatively, just ask that they keep it to 12 channels. Last, consider an pair of room mics hung from the ceiling just over the "front row" to pick up anything that isn't mic'ed really well or get crowd ambiance. Yeah, that eats 2 channels, but it can also make the lack of something in the mix suck less.

The remote desktop idea is ok, just be aware of any address changing (courtesy of DHCP) or firewall issues. Second, you don't want to monitor the recording while it's recording. Hit record and log out. Free up resources and response time for the mission at hand sort of thing. Above all, make sure to work wtih your sound staff, you're ultimately at their mercy. Best of luck.

[jmilo61]

Thanks for the great response.  Much appreciated.  Here are the answers to your questions, and some relevant background information I would have provided before if the post wasn't already so long.

1) Definitely.  I'm very close with the booker and most everyone else at the club, including the sound crew.  I'd definitely have the support of everyone to set up the rig and leave it there plugged into the direct outs on the board.  But, they usually do 15 minute set changes and a lot of the time there's only one sound guy (very small club, 125 attendance maybe) so I don't want to ask them to do anything special for me.  Despite the extremely small room, they surprisingly do mic everything.

2) I have recorded several hundred shows at this place over the years, possibly approaching 1,000 soon, and have been using a Korg D3200 12-track recorder to take from the board the past 3 or 4 years.  In the few hundred shows I've done in that time, I have never once needed more than the 12 tracks the Korg provided (including a room mic track most of the time).  However, the board has 24 inputs I think, and depending on which sound guy is in, any combo of 16 or 17 may be used.

The real issue causing me to need more than 12, is that different sound guys use a slightly different board setup.  One uses 1-4 (kick/snare/tom/tom) for drums, leaves 5 blank (in case a fifth drum mic is needed), bass in 6, guitar 8-9.  Another uses 2-6 (kick/snare/tom/tom/hat), 7 is bass, 10-11 for guitars.  Plus similar stuff for vocals and DI's for acoustics and keys and what not.

So I may not ever record a band that needs more than 12 tracks, but since I won't physically be there to select which direct outs I need, I'll have to them all plugged into the recorder.

When I first started recording multi-track from the board there, I took all the vocal mics into one track from the vocal sub group, kind of like you mention below.  That sub group was permanently setup, not something special for me.  I'm sure it's still like that, but they got a new board since then and I don't think the sub groups have 1/4" outputs for me to plug into any more.  Something like that may be an option though to reduce the total inputs needed.

  Milo

[kirk97132]

Tascam US 1800.  !4 analog channels via USB.  plus two digital.  Or maybe the US 2000 not positive about computer contol but I think so. Worth a look

[jmilo61]

Thanks kirkd,

I was comparing the 1800 with the Presonus 1818VSL not long before my original post.  I'm sure the Presonus is better, but I prefer the Tascam in that it has the 14 onboard analog.  If the DA converter and interface lose communication and I'm not there to fix it, I'm only out two channels compared to eight with the Presonus.

The Tascam is probably my prefer option right now.  I'm comfortable with the remote desktop, I'm an electrical engineer and I set those up at work a lot to monitor and support industrial control HMI's.  As long as I can enable tracks and start/stop recording with the PC, the Tascam should work for me.

A couple questions:

Should I count on the software that comes with the Tascam, or plan to buy some other software to go with it?  Seems like I read a few reviews where people were unable to activate it or something.  Maybe they have got it worked out since those reviews were written?

Any recommendations for a decent inexpensive 2 channel AD converter for the digital input?

  Milo

[Yane]

No doubt you're aware, but be careful to always set up your RDP session to "play on remote computer".  Learned this from hard experience controlling computers used as live stream sources.