Topic: Lowest noise figure eight?

[myke2241]

i wish my KM120 had less self noise! I the is Senn MKH30 still king? what other good small options are there out there?

Thanks!

[John Willett]

i wish my KM120 had less self noise! I the is Senn MKH30 still king? what other good small options are there out there?

Yes, I would say that the MKH 30 is still the king - until Sennheiser eventually come out with the MKH 8030.

The Neumann KK120 + KM-A would be better than the old KM120.  The capsule is basically the same, but the KM-A has the latest low-noise electronics.

There are only three other single diaphragm condenser fig-8s that I know of:- The Schoeps MK8, the MBHO and the Ambient EMESSER.

The EMESSER is pretty small and is made for Ambient by MBHO.

[myke2241]

Thanks John.
i just looked at the KK line. very interesting. Isnt the Emesser kind of noisy? Do you think a MKH 8030 will ever see the light of day?

Although AES 42 is coming (slowly like a turtle) i think good analogue mics will be here to stay for the next 30 - 40 years.

[John Willett]

Thanks John.
i just looked at the KK line. very interesting. Isnt the Emesser kind of noisy? Do you think a MKH 8030 will ever see the light of day?

Although AES 42 is coming (slowly like a turtle) i think good analogue mics will be here to stay for the next 30 - 40 years.

The KK line works with both the KM-A (analogue) and the KM-D (digital), so will do both.

The MKH 8030 is definitely still in the pipeline, though I think another pattern will come first.

The new EMESSER is much better than the first version - much quieter.  I was referring to the new ATE 208 EMESSER.

[dream]

I just want to add a comment about the kk120. I have one for my Solution-D KMD system and this is a very good sounding figure eight (on KMD body).
A clear recommendation from my side.

[John Willett]

I just want to add a comment about the kk120. I have one for my Solution-D KMD system and this is a very good sounding figure eight (on KMD body).
A clear recommendation from my side.

Yes, it *is* very nice.

The KK120 is actually a symmetrical capsule - not actively symmetrical like the MKH 30 - but it is acoustically symmetrical with a passive front plate identical to the back plate.  This keeps the polar-pattern identical front and rear.

[Gutbucket]

I've been curious about the Ambient Emesser for years.  I wonder where they source the capsule, MBHO?  Anyone ever hear one?

[John Willett]

I've been curious about the Ambient Emesser for years.  I wonder where they source the capsule, MBHO?  Anyone ever hear one?

Yes, it's an MBHO - certainly the latest Mk.II is.

I have one to test, but have not had a chance to really use it in anger yet.

[Gutbucket]

If you can remember to do so, please post your thoughts on it once you get a chance to use it, John.

Thanks.

[SmokinJoe]

Aren't LD's like AKG414's inherently quieter that most SD's?  I realize you have to be careful with apples vs oranges on these noise figures, but a 414XLS shows 6db noise, compared to 15 for the Emesser.  While LD's will have polar charts that show significant differences at different frequencies for most of their patterns, generally they are consistent on the Figure 8 setting.

I know it seems bizarre to most people to use mismatch mics, but I have seen a guy use an AT40xx LD for figure 8 and an Octava 012 card for mid, and it sounded pretty damn good.

[Gutbucket]

Yeah, in general LDs are often quieter, though I'd be quite satisfied with 15dB of self-noise.  Using mismatched mics from different manufacturers is less of a potential problem with M/S than is would be for L/R recording since any differences manifest symetrically across the playback image instead of making things lop-sided.  It's not unusual to see LD's used as a side mics since they are generally more common than SD 8's.

The Emesser is sold on the expectation of using it with some other manufacturer's mic as Mid.

[H₂O]

Please correct me if I am wrong but most if not all LD mics get a figure eight pattern by using a two diaphragms and not a single diaphragm like the mk8/mk6/ak20/kk20

[Gutbucket]

Please correct me if I am wrong but most if not all LD mics get a figure eight pattern by using a two diaphragms and not a single diaphragm like the mk8/mk6/ak20/kk20/MKH30

^^
Don't forget the Senn too.  You are in no need of correction otherwise.  I've never heard of a LD single diaphram fig-8.

As for the original question, the lowest noise figure-8 has to be a ribbon microphone.  However, since they are not nearly as sensitive as condensor mics, one would needs lots of clean gain from a low noise preamp to take advantage of that inherent low self-noise.

[DSatz]

Gutbucket, the only single-diaphragm, large-diaphragm figure-8 that I'm aware of is the original M 8 capsule head for the Neumann CMV 3 amplifier series in the late 1920s. Also known as the Telefunken ELA M 303/1, it had a frequency range up to nearly 10 kHz, which was excellent for its day.

--best regards

[Gutbucket]

I imagined if there was a LD 8 it would probably have been an early one.  Certainly doesn't get much earlier than that!

Thanks to you both.