Topic: Fair price for used 4021's?

[yates7592]

I have the chance to buy 2 x B&K 4021's, not matched (assumed not matched because serial nos. are nowhere near each other, but I might be wrong), approx 15 yrs+ old, good cosmetic condition.
Does anybody have an idea of a reasonable price I should be paying?
BTW DPA have quoted me about £300 (GBP) to have the mics checked out, better matched and the cable length reduced.

[acidjack]

Mine went for USD$2100 in the YS in mint condition with all the accessories a couple years ago. I suspect on eBay I could have done a little better. I'd say the range based on this site is about $1600-1700 for a banged-up pair to $2400 for a pair in the condition mine were in. Prices are probably on the downslope to a degree given the existence of the new modular line.

I would absolutely have DPA check them out, given the known issues with the cable termination into the mic body. Nothing to fear if they've been handled correctly, but if they have not, that is the first thing to go. They are outstanding mics, of course.

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I have the chance to buy 2 x B&K 4021's, not matched (assumed not matched because serial nos. are nowhere near each other, but I might be wrong), approx 15 yrs+ old, good cosmetic condition.
Does anybody have an idea of a reasonable price I should be paying?
BTW DPA have quoted me about £300 (GBP) to have the mics checked out, better matched and the cable length reduced.

If they are in good cosmetic condition, I'd consider $2000 (usd) to be fair. They are old and due for a checkup, and the cable exit has been reported to have issues in the past as noted above (supposedly, that was part of the reason for phasing out the 402x series).

Btw, my new DPAs are like 130 off on the serials and were matched. I've seen some mics that were closer together when spaced than sequential serials. Now DPA issues certificates showing the match deviation comparing two caps (first pic) I don't know what they would have done that long ago, and if it would even still be valid after this age.

[yates7592]

Thanks for the pricing guide guys. I've still not pulled the trigger yet, but seems I can get these for like $1500. If the side cable exit was found to be an issue, do you know if it can be fixed?

[Fried Chicken Boy]

I'm pretty sure it can be but don't know what it would cost.  I can tell you that DPA repairs can become VERY expensive.  Before I sold my matched pair, something seemed a little "off" so I sent them to DPA USA for a checkup.  Turns out one of the preamps right behind the capsule was going on the fritz.  Cost almost as much as buying a new microphone but DPA did a great job, re-matched them and even sent new graphs.  It was like getting a new set and they sounded fantastic when I got them back.  Keep in mind that I pretty much babied them so cosmetics don't always tell the full picture.

FWIW, I absolutely loved my 4021's but wanted to try something different.  Pulled some pretty amazing recordings with them, and still get a twinge of regret every now and then.

[yates7592]

I'm very much of the "if something seems too good to be true it usually is" camp. Based on the above thoughts, $1500 might seem a good deal, even for an old but functional pair. But I might add that the serial numbers are WAY apart, like 5 digits on one mic and 7 digits on the other. Obviously they are not siblings and I would not expect them to be, but if DPA take them in and "pseudo-match" them, would I be happy?

[Fried Chicken Boy]

I'm of the opinion that well-made microphones, especially with the very high standards of DPA, are produced with such strict tolerances that even non-matched pairs built within a few weeks of each other (maybe even more?) are going to be fairly close anyway.  Considering the fact that the set you're looking at have widely divergent serial numbers to each other, and probably made a good time apart, they could be very different sonically but you won't really know until you record with them and listen for yourself.  DPA provides response charts with each of their mics; does the seller still have the ones that came with them?  DPA can probably match them but it means actually changing out the capsule; they don't "tune" them, per se.  Guessing it may not be an inexpensive undertaking but only DPA would know the cost.  Probably best to get in touch with them and see if they can perform this for you and what the price is.

[dbindc]

I'm of the opinion that well-made microphones, especially with the very high standards of DPA, are produced with such strict tolerances that even non-matched pairs built within a few weeks of each other (maybe even more?) are going to be fairly close anyway. 

I figured this too but don't think this applies to the the 40XX series.  I had one 4022 for about 10 years, then recently purchased another used on ebay for use as a stereo pair using this logic.  The older original one is significantly hotter like 3-4 db's.  I thought there might be something wrong with the one I recently purchased so sent it to DPA in Colorado for a check up.  They said it was fine.  When I asked Bruce why my older 4022 was louder, he said they could be as much as 5db apart in output. Also said they changed the preamp design at some point.  I was pretty surprised.   They both still sound great and I just have to use a pre with separate control knobs.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I'm of the opinion that well-made microphones, especially with the very high standards of DPA, are produced with such strict tolerances that even non-matched pairs built within a few weeks of each other (maybe even more?) are going to be fairly close anyway.

Though matched at time of mfg does not mean matched 15 years later. I'm not sure what the most common reasons for changes are. Diapragm tension, contamination?

I recall Dsatz once mentioned that Schoeps will not typically re-issue a lost matching certificate, even after only a few years, unless they can re-test the caps.

It'd be interesting to know the 'drift' over the years in an SDC studio mic that had been well cared for, and never ever abused.

[F.O.Bean]

While this isn't with B+K/DPA, my current Schoeps mk41 caps are way off serial wise and one is nickel and one is nextel grey! they are STILL VERY CLOSE DB wise. Like not even 1db So I would assume DPA has the same strict quality control, so they could sound just fine, but my mk41s don't have preamps built into the caps, so that's probably a mute point. But you never know til you try them. Is there ANYWAY the seller can record his stereo and see how far off they are DB wise?

[stevetoney]

...or regardless of whether it's a good deal, you could just not deal with things like mismatched capsules and faulty cables and put your 1500 towards a Schoeps rig that is designed and built right from the start.   

[F.O.Bean]

...or regardless of whether it's a good deal, you could just not deal with things like mismatched capsules and faulty cables and put your 1500 towards a Schoeps rig that is designed and built right from the start.   

BINGO! Now THATS my Team Schoeps partner that I know Solid advice too!!!

[yates7592]

Yeah I backed off this deal as the seller could tell me very little to give me comfort and I cold just see me spending another 50% to get the mics checked out, better matched and repaired if needed. Wil keep my out in the YS....

[F.O.Bean]

Smart move!