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Author Topic: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison  (Read 42741 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2025, 06:23:02 PM »
Achieving a quick post workflow and/or not altering "what the rig sounds like" are both entirely valid reasons for not doing anything more than adjusting levels, but I don't buy the "that's what it sounded like in the room" argument now and never did.  Two different rigs using different mics in different configs run by two different tapers with only levels adjusted afterward are pretty much guaranteed to sound different from each other.. and there is no guarantee that either one "sounds like the room".

I enjoy doing what I can to make my recordings better afterward and have learned a lot from doing that, but rarely find the time to do it to the extent that I would like, am capable of, and in such a way that I know will make them better for other listeners in addition to than myself.  Do no harm.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to for the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: Version 4 provided in individual sections rather than a single booklet)

Offline VibrationOfLife

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2025, 06:52:14 AM »
But you never post-process your recordings and share them.  So how would we even know?  I know physics and sound, but I have had a hard time believing a thing you post without hearing any of your recordings.  I respect your contributions, but I hold you in the do as I say, not as I do camp.

You do you, and I experiment in the field a lot, but I have the audio to back it up, and the pseudo science.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2025, 06:54:32 AM by VibrationOfLife »

Offline grawk

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2025, 10:50:48 AM »
But you never post-process your recordings and share them.  So how would we even know?  I know physics and sound, but I have had a hard time believing a thing you post without hearing any of your recordings.  I respect your contributions, but I hold you in the do as I say, not as I do camp.

You do you, and I experiment in the field a lot, but I have the audio to back it up, and the pseudo science.

What in his post is controversial?  Recordings are never "what it sounds like in the room", but rather are what was captured by the selected gear in the room, all of which imparts character.  He's just suggesting the conservative approach is to avoid doing anything destructive in your processing, or at the very least, make sure to save copies of the "before", so that if your gear or ears get better, or someone else has the time and inclination, they can take a stab at it. 
Schoeps DMS (cmc1L4v/8) - CMC641v - DPA 4015gs - Sennheiser Ambeo - Nohype SRM-1 - Sennheiser 416T - Neumann KK14
Sonosax AD8+/R4+/M2D2 - Lectrosonics SPDR - Tascam FR-AV2 - Deity PR2 - DPA MMA:A

Offline DSatz

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2025, 10:33:29 AM »
What he just said.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline beroti_music

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2026, 06:14:59 PM »
Up close in a good sounding room, the mk22's shine.
This is from a couple of days ago. 5 meters from the stage in the middle of the floor.
https://youtu.be/OdmQLnivP7A?is=DLxILPU8m9eANj89

mics schoeps mk22/mk4 | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | primo em4052pmi4's/nakamichi cp3 (JB mod | sp-cmc-4u/at-u853 4.7k mod (line cards/h/c/sc)
power schoeps cmbi (pair) | ca-9200 | ca-ubb (2x)  
recorder roland r-05 (5x)  
video panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v | samsung s23 ultra
playback fiio m17
headphones final d8000 | sony wh-1000xm3 | beyerdynamic dt770 pro | akg k271 mk II
youtube https://www.youtube.com/@beroti_music

Online Thelonious

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2026, 06:48:01 PM »
That sounds great!

Here is a link to a recent recording on the stage (mic position clear in the video). I feel like if I can get the mics onto the stage, such that the sound sources are within the stereo recording angle, the mk22s never disappoint…

https://youtu.be/YBHngFu2zl8?si=zdoMphpIf9FwbqQ4

Offline adrianf74

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2026, 10:35:04 PM »
The 22's are the one set of caps that I miss the most.  Used them more often than not and have some phenomenal sounding shows with them. If only money was no object.
Mics: Neumann KK 184 capsules with nBob Actives and Naiant PFAs | Recorders: Zoom F6 and Zoom F3 w/ BTA-1 plus Sony PCM-A10 | Power: RiotBox, Neewer NP-F750 7000mAh | Video Camera: DJI Osmo Action 4

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2026, 03:21:27 PM »
Agreed, mk22s were the best sounding caps I owned. However, due to the environments I record in, nearly 100% of the time I went with the mk41/v source due to “crowd interference” and the like. In a perfect environment, mk22 would be my only pair.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2026, 06:47:34 PM »
When the situation allows for it, the microphone sensitivity pattern I most prefer in a 2 channel near-spaced stereo pair leans toward the more open, omni side of cardioid, of which Schoeps MK21 and MK22 are excellent examples.  There are a number of reasons for that, several which are generally recognized around TS and have to do with the attributes of the individual microphones as well as the room and audience situation where the recording is being made.  Specifically regarding pickup pattern behavior, I cant remember where, but recall reading that the MK22 was specifically designed to very carefully manage the transition from primary control of pattern via differential-pressure over to control via acoustic pressure boost on-axis at high-frequencies (a result of the geometry of the diaphragm face and capsule housing) in such a way that a narrowing of the pattern at the highest frequencies typical of other microphones is minimized, resulting in a pattern which remains more consistent than it would otherwise.  DSatz, Is that accurate?

A few of the following statements may ruffle some feathers, but I stand by them. Feel free to disregard.

Another reason, which I think significant even though it isn't discussed as much around here is the combined sensitivity pattern of both microphones together in a stereo pair.  I've found I like a collective sensitivity bias that's generally subcardioid shaped, and oriented toward the performers of course.  How open depends on the situation, and good pattern behavior in the individual microphones generally makes for better collective pattern behavior.  Perhaps the only thing in that statement that may seem odd is the talk of the collective sensitivity pattern of both microphones working together.

Here's the part that may spark some controversy- For the most part I achieve an overall sensitivity pattern that trends somewhere between open-cardioid/sub-cardioid-like by combining a number of supercardioid microphone channels that are oriented in different directions.  In addition to a pair oriented +/-45, there is a third facing directly forward, and an additional pair facing rearward.  When mixed they collectively produce an overall sensitivity pattern grossly similar to that of a pair of subcardioids in a typical near-spaced pair arrangement.  I think that is significant and I hear a lot of similarities between the two, and that's really the point of this post.

Of course doing it that way is more complex, and of course there are pitfalls. It's not that I'm proposing my method for use here so much as trying to convey an interesting observation about a fundamental aspect of live performance recording using a microphone configuration placed on stage or out in the room. I went the more complicated route for a number of reasons, one of which is that it enables alteration of that collective stereo sensitivity pattern afterward, and generally provides other forms of flexibility which help me to more consistently achieve the kind of sound I'm happy with.

The more typical way of exercising some of that flexibility is by substituting microphone capsules of differing directivities.  Swap MK22 for MK4 or MK41.. or run multiple setups simultaneously.  I achieve overall sensitivity pattern through the manipulation of multiple microphone channels.  I'm unable to afford four or five MK41 in substitute for a pair of MK22, and of course in many other ways that substitution is not equivalent, but that is the general idea behind the observation.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to for the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: Version 4 provided in individual sections rather than a single booklet)

Offline beroti_music

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Re: Schoeps mk22 & mk41 comparison
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2026, 09:22:13 PM »
That sounds great!

Here is a link to a recent recording on the stage (mic position clear in the video). I feel like if I can get the mics onto the stage, such that the sound sources are within the stereo recording angle, the mk22s never disappoint…

https://youtu.be/YBHngFu2zl8?si=zdoMphpIf9FwbqQ4

Nice!
mics schoeps mk22/mk4 | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | primo em4052pmi4's/nakamichi cp3 (JB mod | sp-cmc-4u/at-u853 4.7k mod (line cards/h/c/sc)
power schoeps cmbi (pair) | ca-9200 | ca-ubb (2x)  
recorder roland r-05 (5x)  
video panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v | samsung s23 ultra
playback fiio m17
headphones final d8000 | sony wh-1000xm3 | beyerdynamic dt770 pro | akg k271 mk II
youtube https://www.youtube.com/@beroti_music

 

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