Topic: Comp: stock 480 bodies vs RH-mod 480 bodies

[unclehoolio]

Here's a blind comp that some of y'all might find interesting.  Stock 480 bodies vs. Rens Heijnis-modified 480 bodies (http://www.rensheijnis.com/microphones.htm; I had him do a mod that retained the +48v phantom power.  I got wind of this courtesy of Voltronic, from another thread).  From Terrapin Roadshow in San Rafael on Saturday night.  ck61's, spaced approx 43cm @ 65deg, and the rest of each stereo pair was >m148(powered @15v)>Zoom F9n Pro.  Lemme know your guesses as to which is which, and which you prefer.

OneDrive link is https://1drv.ms/f/c/6b77fa6dfd24db92/En2WGzyUSdRFu711rpXkuxkBRmUx_epg-Fpt5oPPWqpRhQ?e=EhYxAp
or
Google Drive link is https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bD3Quoun668yeYxLCKf_0TvyuoGTNSfz?usp=sharing

[Billy Mumphrey]

uncle hoolio always got the cool comps.

i just a-b'd these a few times, good news, both are excellent recordings. spaced cardioids, nice.

akg#2 seems a bit brighter, but not in a bad way, especially when i sit in the back of the room farther away from my monitors, everything jumps out nicely. either one of the samples i'd be stoked with for an audience recording.

what's doug's recommended voltage for the m148?

[unclehoolio]

uncle hoolio always got the cool comps.

i just a-b'd these a few times, good news, both are excellent recordings. spaced cardioids, nice.

akg#2 seems a bit brighter, but not in a bad way, especially when i sit in the back of the room farther away from my monitors, everything jumps out nicely. either one of the samples i'd be stoked with for an audience recording.

what's doug's recommended voltage for the m148?

glad you like them both!  that's a great description of #2, everything just kind of pops.  My wife said she liked it because the vocals and instruments sounded balanced and even against each other.  Maybe that's the same thing?

Doug says:
12-14v = out of spec but operational
>14-16v = in spec but not optimized
16-20v = optimized, 19v is bullseye, keep in mind this model built initially to pair with mk41's. 
>20 to 24v = in spec but not optimized
>24v-35V = out of spec, but still operational (way too warm, never mind?)
Damage occurs at 36 volts.

Not sure what 'optimized' means.

Also, not that you asked, but:  with the 483's I give them 19v.  With 481's, I've been playing around, and I think 16v is where it's at for me.  I don't plan to pair my mk4's with the 148, those pair great with the F8n Pro.  mk22, I like with the m248.

[Billy Mumphrey]

Makes sense that you like the 483's at 19v. So it sounds like the intended qualities of the m148 (warmth) increase with the amount of voltage you feed it. Pretty cool.

Pairing capsules with a certain type of preamp flavor seems obvious to a lot of us now, but I definitely remember running spaced omni's for the first time (like 20 years ago) into an Oade warm mod UA-5 and not being thrilled with the results haha. TS members showed me how to improve it with EQ, but getting good results out-of-the-box is an ART FORM !!

When you get a chance, and feel free to wait so you don't spoil the comp, let us know your thoughts on the mic mod. I perused the website but didn't find any specific descriptions. Sounds like it allows 48v to the capsules, implying that stock 480's supply less? I recently ran my CM4's > F3 with the F3 and I forgot to switch the F3 to 48v (it was set to 24v for my at853's) and it turned out great (although it was outdoors RIGHT in the sweet spot).

[unclehoolio]

Makes sense that you like the 483's at 19v. So it sounds like the intended qualities of the m148 (warmth) increase with the amount of voltage you feed it. Pretty cool.

Yes.  The output transformers (Jensen, if I recall correctly) are pure Class A, so they directly reflect the amount of juice they receive.

Pairing capsules with a certain type of preamp flavor seems obvious to a lot of us now, but I definitely remember running spaced omni's for the first time (like 20 years ago) into an Oade warm mod UA-5 and not being thrilled with the results haha. TS members showed me how to improve it with EQ, but getting good results out-of-the-box is an ART FORM !!

Indeed, there can be too much.  My Oade hi-def mod HD-P2 is, even when paired with 483's, right at my limit of warmth tolerability.  What I need to do at some point in time is put an m248 in the signal chain and see what that combo sounds like.  Similarly, I ran 482>148 for TTB at Red Rocks last year (I think I ran the 148 at 16v even?  but I could be misremembering) and I won't be doing that again this year--I'm planning to go with the 248 instead.

When you get a chance, and feel free to wait so you don't spoil the comp, let us know your thoughts on the mic mod. I perused the website but didn't find any specific descriptions. Sounds like it allows 48v to the capsules, implying that stock 480's supply less? I recently ran my CM4's > F3 with the F3 and I forgot to switch the F3 to 48v (it was set to 24v for my at853's) and it turned out great (although it was outdoors RIGHT in the sweet spot).

The stock 480's operate only on +48v phantom power, unlike other mics such as cmc6's and cmc1's and apparently your CM4's, which operate on 12-48v.  I also seem to recall, and on this point I could be very wrong, that inside many mic bodies, the +48v phantom power gets ramped to 60v which is supplied to the capsule?  Someone who is more knowledgeable than me about what happens inside the mic bodies should chime in here.

[Thelonious]

Thank you for sharing this comp, it’s extremely well done and these are both super fun and great learning for me. 

I listened in speakers today and my strong preference is for AKG #2. In my listening room, I found the AKG 1 recording to have extra treble which caused the cymbals to stand out from the rest of the mix, resulting in the bass and guitar sounding “thin” when compared with AKG 2 which had that high end energy much more in balance, resulting with the instruments sounding more in balance overall and letting the bass and guitar sound more full. I think it really allows the full bass response (no doubt enhanced by your preamps) to come through the mix. The portion of the jam that starts around 6:15 made this really evident to me. In short, I think I hear the same benefit to akg#2 as your wife.

I have no frame of reference on the mod other than this comp, but will guess that AKG 2 is the mod as it was my strong preference of the two recordings, though both are solid recordings. Love the clarity you have from the on axis mic configuration.

Thanks again for sharing!

[DSatz]

The stock C 480 polarizes its capsule at 62 Volts. It takes the incoming phantom supply voltage, knocks it down to some lower voltage (not marked on the schematic, but perhaps 6.2 Volts), feeds that into an oscillator, transforms the result upward, and rectifies it. It is not capable of switching to a (potentially much more power-efficient) 12 Volt mode.

[mccordo]

Thanks for sharing this comp! Both samples sound good to my ears, and I'd be happy with either recording.  If I had to choose, I'd say AKG #2 had a bit fuller sound and allowed me to notice subtle differences in tone/volume that AKG #1 did not. I'm guessing #1 is stock and #2 is modded.

[unclehoolio]

Yes, #1 is stock and #2 is the mod.  Thanks for playin'!

[Billy Mumphrey]

When you get a chance, let us know your thoughts on the mod and your future plans with your other 480's. You mentioned a possible RH mod for Schoeps as well, and between you and Voltronic touting his services, I'm quite intrigued.

[unclehoolio]

When you get a chance, let us know your thoughts on the mod and your future plans with your other 480's. You mentioned a possible RH mod for Schoeps as well, and between you and Voltronic touting his services, I'm quite intrigued.

I think the mod is superb. The increase in detail and transparency is really impressive. Alas, when I inquired about getting the 48v mod done to additional bodies, he told me he was discontinuing that offering, too labor intensive. I inquired about other mods, all of them involving a switch to +60v (4pin) or +/-16v (6pin), which would necessitate purchasing one of his power supplies or preamps (MPB502 portable version in particular).  +60v modification of neumann km100 bodies requires fixing the capsule to the body, so you lose that modularity.  That same mod to 480 or cmc6 bodies does not result in loss of modularity.  Also he sells his own full replacement body for cmc6, the CMA16, which retains modularity.  But with the CMC6 and CMA16 you lose the ability to run active cables.  His rec on 480's was to go 6pin with corresponding 6pin option of portable preamp MPB502.  As yet I'm undecided on what to do next, tho I haven't ruled out the option of offering to pay extra/whatever it takes to get my second pair of 480 bodies modded the same way as the first.