Topic: Question about the auditory sound of phase cancellation/shift...

[pfife]

So, I taped the Black Keys last night with my stealth rig (AT853Rx ->W-Mod UA-5 -> NJB3), and in some spots it sounds like there is a flanger/phaser effect running on one or both of their instruments.  I had some earplugs in that were block about everything, so I couldn't really critically listen to what was coming out of the stacks that well, so I don't know if it was actually on the instruments.  OTOH, I was able to hear clearly enough to notice some static coming out of the PA for a portion of a couple songs, but did not notice a flange/phase effect.  Further, it sounds like the effect is sometimes on the drums- which is possible, but not very common...

Now, I have always heard that what happens in phase cancellation is that you tend to lose a lot, or most of the low end in the recording, but I have never heard of it making an actual flange/phaser sound. 

Any insights on this?  I can post a couple mp3 clips of some problem spots when I get home... but does this sound like phase cancellation?
 

thanks

[hexyjones]

was your rig moving...? sounds like either you or your mics were moving...and I think what you are decscribing is called "phase shift"

were any ceiling fans nearby...? that can cause some weird stuff

[pfife]

was your rig moving...? sounds like either you or your mics were moving...and I think what you are decscribing is called "phase shift"

were any ceiling fans nearby...? that can cause some weird stuff

Yup... there were some ceiling fans, but I had the windscreens on...  I was keeping the mics pretty steady, but they were attached to my stocking cap, which I was wearing... but I was conscious of it, and trying not to move as much as possible.

It's pretty weird though, because sometimes it really sounds like an effect.

[Unitmonster]

I've had the same thing happen with pretty much the same rig and it was due to my movement (though I was trying to be still).  Also, if you were standing and there were people moving in front of you, this will have an impact. 

[pfife]

I've had the same thing happen with pretty much the same rig and it was due to my movement (though I was trying to be still).  Also, if you were standing and there were people moving in front of you, this will have an impact. 

Ugh... it was pretty packed... that could be it (people moving in front of me).  So, sounds like I need to get some omni caps.  I have read that those will be less sensitive to my movement, or the movement of others, than the cards that I have right now.

[hexyjones]

was your rig moving...? sounds like either you or your mics were moving...and I think what you are decscribing is called "phase shift"

were any ceiling fans nearby...? that can cause some weird stuff


Yup... there were some ceiling fans, but I had the windscreens on...  I was keeping the mics pretty steady, but they were attached to my stocking cap, which I was wearing... but I was conscious of it, and trying not to move as much as possible.

It's pretty weird though, because sometimes it really sounds like an effect.

Even with windscreens - you might be getting coloration from the fans...Another example...I cant play acoustic guitar in a room with a fan...the phase shift drives me nuts....as you said  - it sounds like an effect...

[pfife]

I guess now I have to decide if it sucks too bad to distribute.  Sucks too, cause I didn't see any mics flying, so I might have the only tape...

thanks for the pointers


bummer

[Humbug]

I've recorded The Black Keys, with stealth cards (CMC2s), and despite a stoned wook crashing into me every few seconds, the recording came out sweet (1/25/04 Mean Fiddler).

Like to hear samples though.

[pfife]

I've recorded The Black Keys, with stealth cards (CMC2s), and despite a stoned wook crashing into me every few seconds, the recording came out sweet (1/25/04 Mean Fiddler).

Like to hear samples though.

They didn't happen to use flangers/phasers did they?

Well, sounds like you had movement around and you prolly moved, so maybe it was the ceiling fans then, on my tape.  I also taped the opener, and the fans were even heavier at that point, but I haven't really checked that recording out.

Strange things...

[Humbug]

I'm sorry I have no idea what gear Dan or Patrick use - Can't even play a note on guitar...never mind. I think Dan likes his effects pedals but what they are, or what they do I couldnt tell you. All I know is I like it.

I'm guessing you've not heard any live shows by the band? I don't remember this effect though.

When I'm stealthing the only thing that affects the sound is someone coming right up to me (within 6" of the mics). Oh and turning around sounds a bit funny, only tried that the once

[pfife]

No, unfortunately I had only heard a friend's studio records, and saw people diggin them here, I didn't remember hearing the effects on it, but probably wouldn't have anyways.

I had my mics pointing almost straight ahead... maybe I need to angle them upwards a bit... I have recorded a few shows with these now, and this is the first time that it has happened.

Thanks everyone for the pointers.

[Humbug]

By the way, if you do go ahead and track it, heres the show (and setlist) for the 25th. IIRC the band dont change their setlist enormously from night to night, maybe just a couple of songs different:

http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?t=84668.

I can't wait till I see them next month.

 

[pfife]

I've had the same thing happen with pretty much the same rig and it was due to my movement (though I was trying to be still).  Also, if you were standing and there were people moving in front of you, this will have an impact. 

So, what do/did you do about people moving around you?  point the mics upward a bit or something?  Omni caps?

By the way, if you do go ahead and track it, heres the show (and setlist) for the 25th. IIRC the band dont change their setlist enormously from night to night, maybe just a couple of songs different:

http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?t=84668.

Thanks- I'll give it a listen and see if I hear that I am hearing.  It was a good show- enjoy!  The phase shifts that I am hearing seem to be rather infrequent, so I'll prolly distribute my recording, but only via B&P- see those ebay threads in the open forum and you'll know why.