Topic: so my mics shit the bed on me tonight....

[Unitmonster]

Taped a show at a loud club and got tons of distortion.  Really disappointing since I've only had my mics overload once before (at the same club, mind you).  But it was nothing like this.  Would a problem with my phantom power supply maybe cause this?

[shaggy]

You gotta tell us more detail.  Were you running omnis or cards?  How thick was the bass?  Check to see if you have your 9V pushin at least 7 volts?  If you aren't juicing up those mics to the proper voltage, you are gonna get distortion and batteries on the way out are pretty much will give results like that.  I have no experience with the denecke ps-2, so I do not know for sure that is the problem.  But if you got a voltmeter, you should check the output from that box with those batteries you used at that show.

If you were running omnis then you should listen to my personal experience with 853s and omnis.  I got a shitload of distortion one evening running a new set of 853 omni caps at a Supergrass show at the Showbox in Seattle...could never pin down the problem (and it wasn't pre distortion, I was using my trusty Sonosax > M1 combo).  All I could say for sure was some sort of problem on the part of the 853 and the omni cap combo.  I think the omnis got slammed real hard with amplified kick bass drums when I ran them up close (I was about 15-20 feet from the stage DFC).  I am still pissed I didn't get that show cause Supergrass is such a blast to see.  After that huge let down, I was not psyched to ever run the 853s again.  Thus started my seemingly non-ending quest for a better and better stealth set up that would never let me down.  And I am still searchin' b/c I am still noticing pros and cons of each high end stealth set up....

[Unitmonster]

yeah, sorry. that was at 3:30 am posting out of frustration.

Was running cards HRTF with external 9.6v (3000ma) powering the ps-2. There was already a few hours of use on the batts, but probably more than enough juice left.  I don't have a voltmeter, so I'm going to have to take it in to my stereo shop guy who can test that.

edit: added a sample of a particularly bad spot.  Any way I can try to recover some of the music?

[bluegrass_brad]

Just go down to Ratshack and buy a voltmeter for $12.  It's an invaluable tool you will need at some point anyway.

[spyder9]

I ran hypers on my 853s upclose for the Black Crowes this past March.  It was so loud in that tiny theatre , it literally blew my head off.  My ears are still ringing.  But, the Hypers held up fine.  I think its just nature of the Omni caps and high SPLs.   

+T Unitmonster and Andy (shaggy)

[Unitmonster]

I didn't run omnis though. I ran cards.  Can't figure it out. Even quieter segments of the show seem to have some distortion.  The thing is, I used earplugs for the first time last night and so I didn't realize how loud it was where I was standing 'till I took them out for a few seconds midway through the show. It was crazy.  I'm worried that I may have damaged my PS-2 and that could be the problem. WIll try to find out today.

Thanks all.
Blane
ps. if anyone has some tips on editing distorted recordings I'd love to hear them. Doesn't seem like there's much that can be done though.

[terrapinj]

have you switched caps at all recently, not sure if it would apply to the 853s but I know there are issues with the SP C4's either distorting or adding clicks and pops if the cap isn't secured tightly, good luck

[madman]

I had a pair of 853s in the past, sounded great for quiet shows, but at loud shows the bass drums were all distorted.  Not much you can do in post, unfortunately, as the sound is pretty much hosed at that point.

[Unitmonster]

Yeah, I kinda figured that. It's distorted across the spectrum.  The odd thing is that I've used these mics at tons of loud shows (Santana, loud rock bands, etc.) and they've been fine. It just seems to be this one venue.  Must be the GIANT stacks of subs they have on the floor. Got a Voltmeter and the PS-2 seems to be putting out 48v, so I guess it's not a case of anything but overloading my mics. Guess I'll have to tape from the balcony from now on at Metropolis.

Thanks for the input guys!

[nic]

had a similar problem with the 414s distorting over the weekend...of course it was the first time I've run the mics so I didnt know their eccentricities.

future mental note: run the pad on the mics so they dont overload! 

[Brian Skalinder]

future mental note: run the pad on the mics so they dont overload! 

You sure it wasn't the preamp overloading?  My understanding:  the pad on the mic doesn't prevent the mics themselves from overloading, but rather attenuates the outgoing signal so your preamp doesn't overload.  But, I'm not uber-technical, so maybe someone else can confirm?

[nic]

future mental note: run the pad on the mics so they dont overload! 

You sure it wasn't the preamp overloading?  My understanding:  the pad on the mic doesn't prevent the mics themselves from overloading, but rather attenuates the outgoing signal so your preamp doesn't overload.  But, I'm not uber-technical, so maybe someone else can confirm?

never had the V3 overload before...
first night I was running the subcards/NOS onstage with gain at +10...fluid levels and no visual signs of overloading.
second night ran M/S with the V3 set to +30...again, no visual sign of overloading.
the distortion is only audible in the upper frequencies in bass heavy sections.

granted, I was never in a position to visually monitor the overload LED on the mics...

edit: just looked in the manual for the 414s and the pad is to prevent the mics from overloading

[Brian Skalinder]

edit: just looked in the manual for the 414s and the pad is to prevent the mics from overloading

Well, there you have it!  Thanks for the confirmation...that I was wrong. 

[Brian Skalinder]

edit: just looked in the manual for the 414s and the pad is to prevent the mics from overloading

Hmmmm...I'm gonna have to sort of disagree with you there.  My manual states:

The preattenuation pads prevent the microphone's output level, particularly at low frequencies, from overloading the miniature transformers used in mixer input stages, etc.

That, to me, says the pad drops the mic's output level so one doesn't overload the next device in the recording chain, i.e. preamp in our cases.  Not that it enables the mics to handle higher SPLs, which is what you'd need to do to if you were overloading your mics.

[nic]

edit: just looked in the manual for the 414s and the pad is to prevent the mics from overloading

Hmmmm...I'm gonna have to sort of disagree with you there.  My manual states:

The preattenuation pads prevent the microphone's output level, particularly at low frequencies, from overloading the miniature transformers used in mixer input stages, etc.

That, to me, says the pad drops the mic's output level so one doesn't overload the next device in the recording chain, i.e. preamp in our cases.  Not that it enables the mics to handle higher SPLs, which is what you'd need to do to if you were overloading your mics.

ah...I misread it with regards to the overload indicator on the mics...
upon furthur listening I may not have any distortion from this weekends recordings.
until now the only listening I had done was in the car via a casette adapter...listening now through my daw/monitors I'm not hearing any of the distortion I heard earlier when driving home.

hmmm...need to investigate this more