Topic: Noiseless portable recorder for quiet sounds

[Katha]

hello,

i am looking for a recording device to record 'small' sounds (finger snipping, a spoon tapping on a table, wine-glasses clinging) to use them in electronic music production. this forum seems to be quite well-informed so i am curious about your ideas.

i had just ordered a Zoom PS-04 Multitrack recorder which was said to have good converters and internal mic, but am quite disappointed: the ground noise is a lot lower than with an old sony-md (mz-r909), but the overall sound of the md is way better. i think this is because the Zoom only records in 32kHz, which seems to take away some brilliance at the 'top end of the sounds'.
so for my purposes an md should be allright - except that the incoming signal of the sounds i am interested in seems to be too quiet to cover the ground noise.

i do have a studio projects b1 condenser microphone, to go with a tfpro p-3 stereo channel pre-amp. they have very good quality, but unfortunately the fan and harddisc of my notbook are too noisy to use it as recorder next to the sound i want to record. if i'm right an advantage of using the b-1 with the p-3 would be to be able to use the line-in of a small recorder (dat, md-, hi-md, whatever there is..) and not having to rely on a maybe cheap built-in preamp of the recorder. but the p-2 has no battery power, so i can't really take this setup outside, which i would love to.

the next possibility would be to use my sony ecm-ms907 electret condenser mic and use the microphone input of a recorder. like this my setup would be perfectly portable - but the internal preamp of the recorder would have to be damn good!

now to you - can you recommend a solution? i would be happy if it could be less expensive than buying an edirol r-1 also...

thank you very much!
katha

[zowie]

Every recorder is said to have good converters by its manufacturer.     The Zoom is a toy. A fun toy, but a toy.   And I personally have never heard any recorder with good built in mics.

If you're just gathering sound effects, a minidisc should do fine.  And for less money than an R-1, that's probably your choice unless you want to buy used.   The sharps seem to be mechanically quiter than the sony's, but presently only sony gives you uncompressed PCM recording.  The preamps should be quiet enough if you have a sensitive mic.  The HHB Portadisc is revered by sound effect gatherers.  It is also lossy MD compression only, but I have heard very nice recordings made on it - the high quality of the mic pre's and the converters made up for the sub-par format.

Or just check oade.com and email them for advice.

[Katha]

hello,

thanks for your reply.

If you're just gathering sound effects, a minidisc should do fine. 

well yes, i did test this sony minidisc as i wrote above. but its ground noise was simply too loud next to the signal i recorded.

this is why i posted my question and not simply took the recommendations people make here about which recorder has good quality, as you folks seem to be interested in quite loud sounds, and not in what i plan on doing. so i hope someone here might simply want to test his device and record some fingersnipping ot the like and tell me, which recorder would actually produce clear sound, with low noise.

The preamps should be quiet enough if you have a sensitive mic

what kind of mic exactly are you referring to here? and which md recorder?

The HHB Portadisc is revered by sound effect gatherers.  It is also lossy MD compression only, but I have heard very nice recordings made on it - the high quality of the mic pre's and the converters made up for the sub-par format.

oh well yes, this seems to be a great one. just the bit too expensive for me... ;

anyone else with a solution?
katha

[Brian Skalinder]

More information will help.

• Do you have a budget?
• Are you set on using the gear you have in-house + whatever people recommend?
• Or are you open to selling your existing gear to finance new gear?
• Are there any size restrictions on the gear?
• Are you able and/or willing to do any DIY work to reduce costs (for example, power supplies)?
• Do you need to capture near-field sources, or far-field, and do you want to exclude surrounding sources (i.e. will an omni or cardioid mic work, or might you need a shotgun mic)?
• Is capturing the source with an unsatisfactory level of mic/preamp self-noise acceptable if there's a way to remove the bulk of the self-noise in post production (a possible solution if on a very limited budget)?

[Katha]

hi, i will answer you questions one by one.

Do you have a budget?

as is said, i would love to stay under the edirol r-1, so let's say 300 euro/-us-Dollar max.

Are you set on using the gear you have in-house + whatever people recommend? Or are you open to selling your existing gear to finance new gear?

mhh, good question! i might actually sell the preamp for another and more portable one, if that makes sense. selling these mics wouldn't earn that much to raise the budget...

Are there any size restrictions on the gear?

i would love to be able to carry it in my regular bag, so lets say the size of one to two portable cd-players would be okay. if it gets more, weight might start being annoying also.

Are you able and/or willing to do any DIY work to reduce costs (for example, power supplies)?

if it doesn't get too complicated or time-consuming, yes. i would probably not do it myself, rather ask a friend, but wouldn't dare to if that meant a day of work...

Do you need to capture near-field sources, or far-field, and do you want to exclude surrounding sources (i.e. will an omni or cardioid mic work, or might you need a shotgun mic)?

no, there is no need to exclude surrounding sounds, i'd rather make sure there are none, assuming that shotgun mics are way more expensive. most of the time i want to record sounds max 1 meter from the mic or closer.

Is capturing the source with an unsatisfactory level of mic/preamp self-noise acceptable if there's a way to remove the bulk of the self-noise in post production (a possible solution if on a very limited budget)?

that is a good question! i would really prefer to keep the complete frequencies of the recorded sound - i am assuming here that by removing self-noise you mean running a highcut equalizier over the recording afterwards, but which would equally reduce the high parts of the sounds i was recording.

thanks, really appreciate your thoughts!
katha

[Kurt8]

Although they are still working out some issues with the firmware, I think the Microtrack 2496 would work well for you and it can be found for cheaper than the R1. I do a lot of field recording and just recently switched to the 2496. The 2GB issue doesn't bother me as I'm not taping shows like most people here. The nicest part about it is that you just plug the CF card into the computer and have the audio on your HD within a few minutes. Transferring the MD recordings in realtime can really slow things down. You want the sounds on the computer to implement into your music right away. BTW, anywhere we can hear some samples of your work? Sounds interesting.

Kurt

[Katha]

hello,

i actually can't find any microtracks for less than 400 dollar/euro, can you recommend a special dealer?
although the direct usb upload is a cool feature, i would be more than happy to pay less for the device and transfer recordings in analog via my external soundcard, whose converters are by far good enough. as i only plan to record shorter snippets (1 to 5 minutes), i don't mind having to transfer audio in realtime. the noise issue is a lot more important for me.

@Brian Skalinder: I have added the information you requested - any ideas now?

thank you!
katha