Question about blumlein

[rowjimmytour]

Whats the farest back ya can run blumlein w/ indoor and outdoor? And if ya run it at the stage lip well ya possible miss vocals? Also if ya record in a noisy bar/rest where the sound bounces all over the room would blumlein result in a good recording stage front or back away? Or would I be better off goin' Hypers for a show like this.I really want to get the best tape I can so I could go soundboard but I prefer Aud especially when I don't have a chose. I have tried XY, DIN, when I had my c4's but never came out very good so I am hoping w/ my new TL's I can find a pattern of my liking.

Bar/rest
                -Vocal amp-


Amp stack--------Stage Lip-----------Amp stack
-                                                 _
-                                                                                                         
                                                  +

                                                    +"two side doors leading
                                                      -  ouside patio




"Left of this wall is dish room
which is covered 75% w/ wall

Sound board is left of center by 10'
and probally 20'-25' back from stage

[Brian Skalinder]

I think Blumlein works well for on-stage (no vocals), and FOB with a reasonably quiet crowd and/or LOUD PA.  If the room acoustics stink or the crowd's loud, then that's what Blumlein will pick up - a crappy sounding room or a loud crowd.  It's a very revealing config, IME.  If you want to minimize room acoustics and/or crowd, I think you're best off with cards / hypers.

[rowjimmytour]

Thanks Brian and +t for the quick response. I am d/l the GBA show ya pulled in Blumlein and this kinda inspired me along w/ my new TL's. How about out door what is the limit in distance from stage w/ a group w/ vocals? I am thinkin' stage front for Sneakin' out at HSMF this year but mabey blumlein if I can set in a good spot.
Peace

[Brian Skalinder]

Thanks Brian and +t for the quick response. I am d/l the GBA show ya pulled in Blumlein and this kinda inspired me along w/ my new TL's. How about out door what is the limit in distance from stage w/ a group w/ vocals? I am thinkin' stage front for Sneakin' out at HSMF this year but mabey blumlein if I can set in a good spot.

I'm -real- pleased with how the GBA recording turned out.  I ran subcards the night before on a lark, since a lot of other tapers had cards/hypers covered.  So based on that experience I knew the venue sounded good, and the crowd would be reasonably mellow.

There's no real "set" distance in front of which it sounds good, beyond which it doesn't.  My only real rule for Blumlein is:  whatever your location, it's gotta sound GOOD from that spot for it to turn out.  You basically have a cardioid lobe facing 4 different directions, so if there are room reflections off the back or side walls, or a loud crowd in front/behind/beside you, it's gonna pick 'em up.  Outside, of course, room reflections are less of an issue, but crowd certainly comes into play.  And if you're too far back, and it already sounds a bit distant from that location, the rear lobes will accentuate that sense of distance, because they're more reveailing of the space around you.

[RebelRebel]

because of the included angle of blumlein, it is more appropriate for farther distances(with bigger groups). Otherwise you risk not getting them all in the picture.
If any sources are 45 degrees or farther from the  center line, there will be phase conflicts between the channels (because they'll also be picked up by the rear lobe of the other channel, in reverse polarity), and that will destroy your imaging.
Your Blumlein pair should be placed away far enough that it can "see" sources as filling 90 degrees or less.
for best playback results, your speakers should be at 90 degrees too.


I love blumlein so far. More than any other config ive done.