Question about attentuator for CMC8

[divamum]

Hi y'all... 

Was going through a bunch of  recordings and realise that my set up (CMC8>boostbox>jb3 or iriver 120) is brickwalling occasionally.... not all the time consistently, but often enough for me to want to do something about it. It only seems to do it in the "right" combination of acoustic (live and smaller space - no problem in a big theater), vocal timbre (when the singer has lots of what classical singers call "squillo"),  pitch frequency (above the staff - female voices) and volume but even though it's only a millisecond or two here or there it's really bugging me and I want to try and avoid it in the future.

So, since I gather this is cuz the mics are overloading the preamp - rather than because my levels aren't right - I'm guessing that I need to add an attenuator?  And how MUCH atten. is good to just knock it back ever so slightly?   Generally my recordings are good and it's ONLY when that "perfect" mix of factors listed above seems to line up that I have the problem....

Are these the right sort of thing?

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-ATEN-1

or

http://store.microphonemadness.com/mmatatcab.html (seems like a huge step down at 20db - that's MORE than I actually add in gain at the rec level end, althuogh maybe those aren't comparable numbers... please educate so I know what I'm looking at!

I'm recording all-acoustic (opera), in varying size spaces - from small rehearsal rooms to large theaters. Going line-in isn't an option, and I don't have the $ right now to upgrade the preamp!!  As usual, sorry for newbie Qs - I'm learning as I go along...

[setboy]

have you read this about brickwalling yet? http://rockpark.com/d7/8_brick.txt

i know thats what you are asking about, but it may help with some thing

[divamum]

Thanks - yeah, I've read that article and it was very informative!   I think I understand what BW IS now, I just need to figure out how to rein it in for my particular circumstances...  As I say, it's not across-the-board BW'ing, just the occasional blip. Annoying rather than completely ruining a tape. But it's bugging me since some samples I wanted to use on my website have just a flicker or it here and there and thus I'm not sure that I CAN use them (yeah, I know - most civilians probably wouln'dt even notice - but *I* know it's there!)

[RebelRebel]

yes, attenuators(or mic pads if you have em) will help. Definitely.Start with the lowest setting and work up. The SP looks to have variable attenuation..I face this all the time, and simply turning my mic pads on corrects it. Soprano Voices are the worst.

[divamum]

Er... ~dons total n00b hat~

Whazza mic pad? 

(searching and googling, but wouuld love more info from y'all!)  Ta ever so....

[poorlyconditioned]

Thanks - yeah, I've read that article and it was very informative!   I think I understand what BW IS now, I just need to figure out how to rein it in for my particular circumstances...  As I say, it's not across-the-board BW'ing, just the occasional blip. Annoying rather than completely ruining a tape. But it's bugging me since some samples I wanted to use on my website have just a flicker or it here and there and thus I'm not sure that I CAN use them (yeah, I know - most civilians probably wouln'dt even notice - but *I* know it's there!)

Why don't you just run line in?  It seems a bit crazy to put the mics through an attenuator, and then into the boostbox.

But for really trouble free operation, I would almost suggest using minidisc, line input.  There is quite a lot of headroom on the mic input (low sens), and if you need to turn the input down below, say 15/30, then you know that you can plug into line input and max the gain out.  It is all analog controlled and the sound is pretty good.  I use all kinds of mics, + 3 wire battery box into MD, either mic or line in.

Oh yeah, I found (at least some of the) himd have the ak5356 chipset.  This is a credible low-voltage pre+ adc, and probably better than the one found in NJB3 and iRiver.  Of course an external pre/ADC is going to sound best, but I think MD is hard to beat for a low profile rig.  That, or an Edirol R01/R09.

  Richard

[RebelRebel]

Your mics dont have them, but they are basically attenuators that are built into a microphone

Er... ~dons total n00b hat~

Whazza mic pad? 

(searching and googling, but wouuld love more info from y'all!)  Ta ever so....

Just another name for an attenuator. Some mics have them built in(my AKGs and MGs have -10db pads).Technically, A pad is  a resistor which reduces the level of signal to prevent overload of an amplifier. When used correctly,  pads will reduce noise and distortion. If implemented incorrectly, they INCREASE noise and distortion.

[RebelRebel]

She has an Iriver IIRC, and JB3 not an MD.

Thanks - yeah, I've read that article and it was very informative!   I think I understand what BW IS now, I just need to figure out how to rein it in for my particular circumstances...  As I say, it's not across-the-board BW'ing, just the occasional blip. Annoying rather than completely ruining a tape. But it's bugging me since some samples I wanted to use on my website have just a flicker or it here and there and thus I'm not sure that I CAN use them (yeah, I know - most civilians probably wouln'dt even notice - but *I* know it's there!)

Why don't you just run line in?  It seems a bit crazy to put the mics through an attenuator, and then into the boostbox.

But for really trouble free operation, I would almost suggest using minidisc, line input.  There is quite a lot of headroom on the mic input (low sens), and if you need to turn the input down below, say 15/30, then you know that you can plug into line input and max the gain out.  It is all analog controlled and the sound is pretty good.  I use all kinds of mics, + 3 wire battery box into MD, either mic or line in.

Oh yeah, I found (at least some of the) himd have the ak5356 chipset.  This is a credible low-voltage pre+ adc, and probably better than the one found in NJB3 and iRiver.  Of course an external pre/ADC is going to sound best, but I think MD is hard to beat for a low profile rig.  That, or an Edirol R01/R09.

  Richard

[poorlyconditioned]

I know she has an iriver.

I'm just suggesting a minidisc as an alternative.  By the time you add all the cost/bulk of the preamp, pad, and the iriver, that is a lot of gear.  Plus the minidiscs are really cheap right now.  I think minidisc-canada.com has an HiMD model with mic/line in for $168.  Perhaps she could even borrow one from someone.

  Richard

[divamum]

Why not MD?  Because I hate MD - the happiest day of my recording life was the day I switched to an HDD recorder!   I ran a Sharp702 for a while (which I LOVED at the time) and when that died got an MT15 which i hate hate hate hate hated (now that I know a bit more I realise it must have had a crappy pre in the mic-in socket).  One of the main reasons I switched was because it didn't need any external media and because I could upload digitally.  Just not a fan.

I already own all the gear mentioned so far - mics/iriver/jb3/boostbox, so no additional cost involved and if the SP attenuator cable will do the job I need,  at $7 it's a no-brainer, really.

As for my running line-in, you can't get a strong enough signal when recording opera (which is all acoustic). I don't know the precise amount of gain I'm adding when using the JB3 because the boostbox doesn't have a calibrated knob, but I'm guessing it's probably about +20-25 in bigger venues (2200+ seats).   On the iriver using Rockbox+ mic-in I sometimes add as much as 40 in a bigger space. 

FWIW.

[edited for dumbass typos and further info regarding gain]

[divamum]

Thanks for the very thorough answer, Teddy!  Bottom line is I don't have them, so unless somebody has really bad things to say about the SP cable, it looks like that's the way to go at least as an experiment...

More info welcomed, of course - just soaking up all the information! Thanks y'all

[poorlyconditioned]

Thanks for the very thorough answer, Teddy!  Bottom line is I don't have them, so unless somebody has really bad things to say about the SP cable, it looks like that's the way to go at least as an experiment...

More info welcomed, of course - just soaking up all the information! Thanks y'all

By the way, a big +T for taping yourself, Divamum!

  Richard

[divamum]

Awwww shucks Richard ... thanks!   

[willndmb]

i have and used the mic madness cable linked above, worked great when running out of a SBD and running line out > camcorder
cascade media i got mine from for 30 shipped

the SP one i didn't like because you had no way on knowing what was being knocked down, you could put that into your chain and still not have it set high enough, at least with the mioc madness you know its being knocked down 20db everytime all the time
and you can up your levels slightly to make up some of the difference if need be