Topic: Help running a Matrix for Zilla?

[Rally_AK]

Hi Guys,

First time poster from Anchorage, Alaska.

I just purchased a Mackie 14 channel mixer [/url}http://www.mackie.com/products/1402vlzpro/[/url] that I plan on using for matrix recordings. I've used it for a few shows, but I'm still new to this whole thing so I'm looking for a little help...

I'm taping Zilla tonight and I'll be using my mk4's on stage, mounted to the ORTF bar, and mixing it with a SBD feed. Then using a V3 out of the Mackie for A/D conversion. My questions are?

What would be the best placement for my mics?

I know running ORTF isn't the best for recording onstage, but it's the only mount I have at the moment.

How should I run my levels?

I love the onstage sound of the Schoeps, but Zilla uses a lot of electronics the may not come through on stage. So I'm leaning toward more SBD than mics, in the mix. I was thinking like 35% mics and 65% SBD.

Anyways let me know what you think, any suggestions would me much appreciated.

[Brian Skalinder]

What would be the best placement for my mics?

I know running ORTF isn't the best for recording onstage, but it's the only mount I have at the moment.

ORTF on-stage works just fine, IMO.  Sounds like you're locked into the config, anyway.

I love the onstage sound of the Schoeps, but Zilla uses a lot of electronics the may not come through on stage. So I'm leaning toward more SBD than mics, in the mix. I was thinking like 35% mics and 65% SBD.

Probably not the answer for which you're looking, but...I'd just play it by ear - use a good pair of attenuating earphones if you have them, so you can hear the mix with minimal interference from the PA, stage monitors, etc.  Also, are you 100% certain the effects / electronics are routed through the SBD?  If not, you may want to run the mics in the audience to ensure you capture the effects / electronics.

[Rally_AK]

Thanks Brian!

I'm not a 100% sure on weather or not the effects are ran through the soundboard or not, but I have listened to a few SBD tapes from them, that sounded like they are.

I'd really like to keep my mics out of the audience for this one. The crowd usually gets louder and louder as the beer drinking progresses. Especially at this venue.

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm not a 100% sure on weather or not the effects are ran through the soundboard or not, but I have listened to a few SBD tapes from them, that sounded like they are.

That's a good sign, and definitely much easier to manage with the mics on-stage, not to mention minimizing the bozo factor.  Good luck!

[mmmatt]

Don't think of the mix in terms of percentages.  It is never the same!  Use your ears.  A decent set of headphones is key.  You should be able to hear the effects in the mix and ballance to that.  With a vocal band I try to ballance the vocals when stage micing in a matrix.  With instumental music I try to listen for a certain level of ambience or the presence of things that are not in one or the other source.  The vlz mixer have a solo button I believe and this will allow you to hear what is going on in each pair or each individual channel.  Listen to it a bit, and then go back to the full mix to make sure all thoes things are represented properly, then repeat for the other source.
     Biggest mistake you can make when running a live matrix is to keep adjusting during the show.  Try to ballance the mix durring the first song then just check back from time to time and only make the tiniest of adjustments if the mix isn't how you want it.  If you want to play with the faders, push the stage mics up about 6 db between songs to pull more crowd reaction in.  This takes a little bit of practice to get it to sound smooth but it is a nice effect.  Make sure you remember where the slider were before you push them up though.
    As for mic placement you can certainly do center stage ortf and I like ortf on stage with some mics... I would think the scheops would be wonderful in that config from stage.  Placeing them can be a little tricky though... if travis is dead center toward the front you will be getting a loit of percussion in the mix.  If he is back aways you will be fine.  I'm not sure how they set up.  Ifg the bass player is hard to one side of the stage and is running his stage amp loud you will get levels that show hot on that side.  Don't always ballance your mix to what you see... try to use your ears.  I don't reccomend you use any eq if you are new... it is a bitch to get eq right when you are running and I have run sat least 100 matrix recordings and still usually fuck it up when I try to eq.  The exception is sometime I will eq the bass on the mics down and push the sbd bass up a bit so that I get a cleaner "thump" to the kick and bass, but when recording on stage that shouldn't be an issue and I would run flat and adjust in post if you need to.
    Attached is a matrix recording guide I put together a year or two ago.  This should help you some (if it doesn't put you to sleep) and although I learn new stuff each time I'm out, it should be pretty well updated.

Matt

[Rally_AK]

Thanks for the info Matt, and the guide too. I'll have to dive into it a little deeper when I get home.

I'm still learning how to use this mixer. Do the solo buttons affect the master ouputs of the mixer? What about the mute buttons?

Do I need to get the Master Mix as close to "U" marking as possible?

[mmmatt]

Thanks for the info Matt, and the guide too. I'll have to dive into it a little deeper when I get home.

I'm still learning how to use this mixer. Do the solo buttons affect the master ouputs of the mixer? What about the mute buttons?

Do I need to get the Master Mix as close to "U" marking as possible?

unity (for all things) is the best in terms of least electronics but not always practical or possible
solo buttons do not effect the main outs just the phones/control room outs
mute effects the main outs and you should mute whatever channels you don't want in your mix

Matt

[Rally_AK]

Ok, I think I got it.

Thanks again for your help guys! Now I gotta get to the show.

Later,
Paul M.