Topic: Multi Source Recording -- a few questions

[leshlush]

Hey folks,

Tomorrow night I'm recording a two source recording and I'm just looking for some advise...

I have an idea of what I want to do, but just wanted to ask your opinions to be sure...

I'm recording a female performer that I'm not really familiar with, but from what I understand she plays electric-folk w/ some blues slide...

I got hooked up w/ this whole thing through a guy that will be recording video... It's my understanding that they're gonna have a few cams floating around...  He's friends w/ the performer and she was looking for him to put together some sort of video recording of the evening as it's her homecoming after a nearly sold out club tour in Europe... I don't think that it's in anyway meant to be a professional job, but I'm sure that they're looking for a decent final product...

I met the guy once when I was taping a show that he was doing some video recording for the band I was taping... He was looking for me to do some audio recording to add to the video in post... He's lined it up so that I have access to a board feed and I'm looking at doing a matrix... I had considered an on-the-fly-matrix through my UA5, but I have since opted to pull two sources and mix them in postproduction... I even considered doing a three source matrix and then decided that it might be overkill... I'll be running a set of cards and the soundboard... I was considering an additional set of onstage split-omnis, but as I sd, opted to just do a 2 source mix...

The guy told me to rent whatever I need and he'll get the bill...

I called the local rental shop that I usually deal w/ and they have since replaced their MT2496's w/ R09s... They have also sold the set of SP C1s they had in rentals...

I plan on running: SP C4s DIN > UA5 > JB3; the second source will be: Soundboard > R-09

Eitherway, now that you know the situation(probably in way too much detail), I have a couple of questions... I'm not very familiar w/ the R09 but I have since spent the week reading as much as I could from this and whatever sites that I could, but I still wanted to make sure that I know what I'm doing before I get there...

I assume that b/c the audio will be used in conjunction w/ video, that I should record both sources in 48 khz?

I have a 2 GB SD card and a 512 which would be enough to run 24/48 from the R09 (2Gb for the show and if required 512 for the encore), would that be my best bet? I'm assuming so, but wasn't sure as my second source will only be 16 bit... Iknow that I'll have to dither the 24 before mixing the 2 sources, but just wanted to make sure that it was worth the trouble... Should I run 24/48 from soundboard or 16/48 from the board?

From what I've read, I assume that I should be running my board feed into the Line stage not the mic, but just wanted to confirm???

Unlike the JB3 that I always run flat gain, it's my understanding that I should be running the R-09 around 28(on their 0-30 scale)... Does that sound right???

The feed I'm getting is an RCA w/ gain control, which gain should I be adjusting the board or the R09?

When running line feed, is the line-gain a gain or an attenuator? Meaning if it's an attenuator, shouldn't I be running it wide open and worry about the gain from the board? But if it's a gain, shouldn't I run my signal high and use the R-09 to top it out?

I know that the R09 can accept some pretty hot signals, so I'm assuming that the board shouldn't to hot for it?

How good(close) are the level displays? Are they pretty good at gaging actual head-room before clipping or should I play it pretty safe and run w/ alot of headroom?

Is running a 3 source mix (card, omni, board) overkill? I've heard some good card+board matrixs and some good 4mic (card+omni) mixes but haven't heard of too many 4 mic + board mixes...

Eitherway... Thanks folks for taking the time to read through all of this...

Any advise would be greatly appreciated...





 

[leshlush]

Oh Yeah, one last question... When putting the sources togethr in post, do you tthink it's a bad idea to pan my mics hard left and hard right and then leave the board source un-panned in the center?

And just to add to my last post... The venue is a 500+ club w/ high ceilings(at least they have sound baffles up there) and concrete walls... From prev experience in the room, it's usually a little boomy... I considered running XY as opposed to DIN, but I don't find that XY has the seperation that DIN has....

[kindms]

The sync'ing in post might be your biggest issue. Do you have a master clock u can record the different sources thru ?

It might be easier for you to run an on-the-fly matrix with like an 80 / 20 mix of board and mics but of course that will depend on the quality of the feed from the board.

If you can rent a mixing board and get a split from the snake it would be better. that way you can mix for the recording instead of getting what the FoH is mixing for the room acoustics.

Good luck either way sounds like a really fun project

[leshlush]

Do you have a master clock u can record the different sources thru ?

To be honest, I don't know what a master clock is or how to run it... As you may be able to tell, I've only ever run a few matrix's and am still not very comfortable doing so... What's a master clock and how would I run both sources through it?

It might be easier for you to run an on-the-fly matrix with like an 80 / 20 mix of board and mics but of course that will depend on the quality of the feed from the board.

Of the few martx's that I have done, I have always had better luck mixing it in post...

The few times that I tried on-the-fly, the mix is always way off... There's usually way too much room-noise for me to hear what it sounds like, isolating headphones or not...

If you can rent a mixing board and get a split from the snake it would be better. that way you can mix for the recording instead of getting what the FoH is mixing for the room acoustics.

The house guy actually offered me a split from the snake and they even have a secondary board/console that I could use... I just don't think that I'm that comforatble mixing down the soundboard source on-the-fly... I've never run house-sound or a soundborad and I'm not very seasoned at mixing.. All of mixing experience comes from my limited experiece mixing in post-production using Wavelab and even then, I'm a try this and thsi and see if it works kind of guy... The only live mixing that I've done came from a split I once had, my mix was way off... I'm sure that I would have had a better pull from the house mix... Considering that I'm only using the board source to reinforce my audience recording... So all I need is the bright house mixes to crisp up my mids and highs...

Good luck either way sounds like a really fun project

Thanks man... No matter what happens, it should be lots of fun... And a good experience, if nothing else...

Part of the reason that I want to run it as seperate sources is that if something goes wrong w/ the mix whether it be the soundboard pull or my attempt at post-matixing them, I at least will have my audience copy still intact and available to use... And I'm usually pretty happy w/ my audience pulls...

I'm definitely looking forward to it... Should be a fun night...

[leshlush]

And before I forget... +T

[BradM]

Can you get in for the sound check? I'm thinking that you could run your own feed from the board through that sub-mixer, and set it during the sound check, using a decent pair of headphones as you do it, or maybe by trying three or four different settings, recorded as you go with known time spans for each check, and then decide later (in a quiet place, as you listen to it) which was best.

(One syncing tip: I saw a couple of guys at a club use two videocameras once. They started both of them rolling, then, with them close together, had one guy clap his hands once near the mics. The cameras were then separated; the clap was the "sync mark" [think about those "clap boards" you see on film sets] for the after-the-show work.)

Aloha,
Brad