MK21 Spacing Requirement

[Josephine]

Has anyone here run MK21's stealth?

I've got an upcoming show at a venue where MK21's would be ideal. 
I could run open from the soundboard area, but it would be from the very back of the room underneath the balcony overhang.
Or, I can run from my seat . . . which is as close to this venue's sweet spot as one could ever hope to get.

I'd really like to take advantage of my seat location, but I'm wondering what mics I should use.
I ran my MK41's in this venue a few weeks back and was not completely happy with the results.
Are MK21's out of the question because of their spacing requirements?  Or could I run them stealth?

I guess my question is:  MK41's?  MK21's?  Or . . .  ? 

[mmedley.]

NOS or split those badboys a couple 10-12 feet. 

Can you not run openly from your seat? I would think putting the 21's in a stealth situation (i.e. in hat, etc) wouldn't be such a good idea.

[Josephine]

NOS or split those badboys a couple 10-12 feet. 

Can you not run openly from your seat? I would think putting the 21's in a stealth situation (i.e. in hat, etc) wouldn't be such a good idea.

I have not yet verified it, but I do not believe the venue will allow me to tape from my seat.
This venue will be full of uppity subscriber types.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

running the subcards in the hat worked pretty well the time I did it with the ak43s.  The distance isn't the same as NOS but the head works as a baffle.  I was happy with the image but definitely picked up some chatter.

[schoepsnbox]

Josephine my MK4 caps are available for your use if you'd like to try those.

[Josephine]

Josephine my MK4 caps are available for your use if you'd like to try those.

Thanks, Nick.  I really appreciate the offer.
  +t

[schoepsnbox]

no problem, let me know. 

[Josephine]

I like my mk21's a Lot but Not in a hat.  I gave it a good try when I had mk21's and mk41's.

I was hoping I could get by without mk4's. I haven't run the mk21's that way since getting mk4's.  The mk4's are a Really Really good hat capsule. I sometimes will run the mk41's when I'm in a difficult location due to distance, bad room or potential drunkard factor, etc.

If you run the mk21's at anything less than NOS spacing, you might try 110 degrees.

I've run the mk21's right up front DIN for things like sax or metheny... It is nice but the soundstage just isn't as defined and you'll tend to get more room.  In the same situation, the mk4 soundstage is very well defined and there is less room.

So you recommend the MK4's then. 
I'm usually happy with the results that my MK41's bring me, but not in this venue.
I'm so excited about this upcoming show and the seats I have, I really want to make the most of the opportunity.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

So you recommend the MK4's then. 
I'm usually happy with the results that my MK41's bring me, but not in this venue.

No brainer, mk4's over mk21's.

The general case for 4's over 41's is less simple.. It is very subjective to what you like and especially what and where you record.. Whether it is GA or reserved seating, etc.  But if I could have only one pair to run in a hat, it would be 4's over 41's for me and my venues... but my usual situation is 20 feet from stage.  With different venues, I might pick the 41's as my only pair.

Any thoughts on why the 41's aren't working in the room? What are/aren't you hearing?

[Josephine]

So you recommend the MK4's then. 
I'm usually happy with the results that my MK41's bring me, but not in this venue.

No brainer, mk4's over mk21's.

The general case for 4's over 41's is less simple.. It is very subjective to what you like and especially what and where you record.. Whether it is GA or reserved seating, etc.  But if I could have only one pair to run in a hat, it would be 4's over 41's for me and my venues... but my usual situation is 20 feet from stage.  With different venues, I might pick the 41's as my only pair.

Any thoughts on why the 41's aren't working in the room? What are/aren't you hearing?

You know, Freelunch, I can't really say and I'm horrible at describing what I hear.
I don't know the correct terminology.
To me, my recording sounded really edgy, lacking the warmth of the room.
Also, some of the vocals appear to echo in my recording and I don't recall that being the case live.

Acoustics in the venue are absolutely incredible and I was expecting more from my tape than what I got.  Maybe too much.

[RebelRebel]

I was having  issues until a friend suggested that I try a modified NOS spacing  ie 110-120 degrees and 12-14inches capsule separation..after that point..problems were no more.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You know, Freelunch, I can't really say and I'm horrible at describing what I hear.
I don't know the correct terminology.
To me, my recording sounded really edgy, lacking the warmth of the room.
Also, some of the vocals appear to echo in my recording and I don't recall that being the case live.

I think the gear comp discussions are a good place to agree on terminology..  But we don't get enough of those.

Maybe this is a case where you do want to include the room by using omni's or subcards.

Here's a 4061 vs. mk21 comp I did a year ago, complete with nearby cough.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=74250.msg993287;topicseen#new

Can you describe the PA and how far away you were?  Did the capsules end up pointed inside the PA, outside, dead on?