Topic: How does the powering of the mics affect the final sound?

[divamum]

Sorry if this has been discussed to death - if so, just point me to old threads....

How does  increased power affect  mics other than increasing their ability to handle high SPLs?  Until I switched to the CS2496 and started running my CMC8s via the 9v powering in that, I had only ever run them into mic-in jacks with presumably less juice.  Now that I'm using the higher voltage setup I'm noticing differences in sound and I'm not sure which part of hte chain is affecting it. In partciular, I'm noticing that they are WAY bass heavier than I've ever been aware. 

Just curious (and also trying to figure out what link of the chain needs adjusting to get the sound I want).

Tx!

[Liquid Drum]

Are you using bass roll-off?? That would sort out the heavy bass problem.

But yeah, if you only power by say 6v when it normally operates at best with 9v (or sometimes 12v, etc) then you are not getting the full use of the mics. I noticed this when I started going line-in on my MD rather than mic-in (which only powers by 3v apparently).


I think thats correct anyways 

[divamum]

Are you using bass roll-off?? That would sort out the heavy bass problem.

No roll-off. I'm recording exclusively classical and have never had any need for it before.

Short example attached to this - is this the kind of bass distortion rolll-off helps? It neither peaks nor brickwalls it just suddenly... BOOMS on those specific notes (it's a very small chamber orchestra - 2 cellos and 1 double-bass).  (Originally recorded 16/44 wav on the iriver rig in my sig - converted to mp3 in Wavelab)

I was standing pretty  much next to the cello side of the orchestra, choir about 10ft behindh; mics about 30ft back; empty 500 seat theatre - weird shape, too... sort of hexagonal.

[willndmb]

i have not used cs mics but with my sp 853s you can def tell a difference between a show with good/fresh battery power vs one were the battery power is dying
everything (not just bass)  is much clearer and louder with good power, at least to my ears

[taper420]

Expanding on the last comment.... I think what he means by standing bass note is this: The actual wavelength of the note (bass notes can get rather big) is the same size as the room you are recording... therefore everytime this note is played, it resonates the room and makes the note have the extra boom you are describing. This is why most professional studios are built with no right angles, and have no parallel lines. Otherwise the certain note will get trapped bouncing back and forth within it's own sized room, and cause the resonance you hear. I believe this is the same concept that is used when breaking crystal with sound.

[divamum]

divavmum,

thats not abnormal at all, and not distortion. Its a standing bass wave.
Yes, a slight roll-off would help. Cellos sing downward to 60hz or so. You don't want to lose much of it, but something around 75hz, and 6db steepness would help control it a bit.
They get much worse than that in amplified music.
That is more of a hall anomaly, and where the recording was done from, than a mic issue. Your mics, omni's, were just capturing the halls voice, which bult up a standing wave at that frequency in the cello's voice.

If I may join the Moke fanclub and add a +T... this was EXACTLY the kind of thing I was wondering about and the information I need.  THANK YOU!!  There are so many darned variables and since just about everything about the gear was different this time (diff firmware on the iRiver, diff pre, diff power to the mics) that I had no clue whether to look to the equipment or the acoustic.  I understand completley thanks to your expl.

Taper20, +t to you too for expanding on how it works - appd!

Lastly - I played around EQing the file this morning and by dropping the bass got rid of some of the background hum (alas, at pretty much precisely the same frequencies - makes sense, but still annoying!) and also toning down the kaBOOM as the cello hit that "sweet spot" (damn, wish that space had one of those in MY register! lol).  Is there any particular difference or pro/con to tweaking it in post rather than altering it as it's recorded?

Thanks again guys -r eally helpful info

[divamum]

i have not used cs mics but with my sp 853s you can def tell a difference between a show with good/fresh battery power vs one were the battery power is dying
everything (not just bass)  is much clearer and louder with good power, at least to my ears

yeah, that's exactly what I'm hearing - it's a more detailed and "robust" sound all round with the added powering. 

[divamum]

There is something about the soprano voice that freaks out microphone capsules

Ha - if only I were a soprano...   Kidding aside,   as a dramatic mezzo (think Verdi Requiem, Dalila, Carmen that kind of stuff) I face the challenge both as singer and tapir of needing highs AND lows to sound totally there and I'm pretty loud at the top too (not soft floaty high notes, but big bombastic onds).  I'm finally figuring out how to find the right equipment and, more importantly, how to use it (thanks largely to this board and my buddy Tenorichards), but it's definitely taken a while! 

<ramble>
Actually, one of the funniest experiences I've ever had was an audition for the BBC about 15 years ago (they were running analog).  He set the mic up RIGHT in front of me. I said, "Uh... I'm kinda loud - you may not want it that close". He gave me a scathing look and went back to the booth. I sang a few tests notes at which point he sheepishly came back and moved the stand back about 10 ft...
</ramble>

Thanks again for the help!

Edited to add:  What's HPF?

[sygdwm]

Edited to add:  What's HPF?

High Pass Filter

[divamum]

Yes, essentially.  Classical voice types (from high to low)

Women
Soprano (many different flavours from very high to almost mezzo-y)
Mezzo Soprano (literally "half soprano" and that's actually an  accurate moniker - a mezzo has richness of middle and the low of a contralto, but also has to have high notes)
Contralto


Men
Counter-tenor (male alto)
Tenor
Baritone
Bass-baritone
Bass

Then there's further distinctions within each of the major types.  Some  finer distinctions include:  "leggiero" (literally "light") being a brighter, higher lighter voice, "Lyric" being a full voice, but still one which emphasises "prettiness" rather than power, "spinto" (literally "pushed") which is heavier/bigger than lyric but not as big as full blown dramatic which is the "is it live or is it memorex" max (think women in horned helmets and SUPERloud heroic singing). Then there's "coloratura" which is the ability to sing lots of fast runs - theoretically any voice type can have coloratura facility, but if you hear somebody talk about "a coloratura" it usually means a high, light soprano who sings a WHOLE lotta notes.

Lightbulb jokes:

How m any sopranos does it take to change a lightbulb?
Four. One to change the bulb and three to pull the chair out from under her.

How many mezzos does it take to change a lightbulb?
Three. One to change it and the others to get the ladder and say, "I knew it would be too high for her".

How many tenors does it take to change a lightbulb?
One. He stands on the ladder and the world revolves around him. 

I will spare you the rest (although I am ashamed to admit there are many, many, MANY more...)

[divamum]

BOY am I learning a lot on this one - ran the CMC8 rig and Edirol (internal) side by side last night. TOTALLY different results. TOTALLY. I mean, I knew that "in theory"mics have different responses to sounds but hearing the same concert on two radically different sets of gear was an education. Interestingly, the Edirol mics didn't "spike" the celli in the same way so I got to hear firsthand how it's a delicate cocktail of things which adds up to a specific sound. 

Anyway, thanks again all - my taping education continues apace thanks to you guys!

(Oh and Moke, yeah I ALWAYS save untweaked raw copies of everything.  it's hell on my hard drive space, but I'm a hoarder!)