Topic: first matrix.... ua5

[palmettobum]

Finally got my rca's, going to be attempting my first matrix recording tomorrow.  I have been wanting to try for a while now, and tomorrow is the perfect scenario for a test run.  The band is drums, guitar, and female jazz vocalist.  Guitar and vocals will be running through the board, no drums.  The venue is a large and somewhat noisy bar here in charleston (beer works).

I am just hoping to get some advice as all I really know how to do is moniter though my jb3 and adjust the small knob on the back of the ua5 to change the board levels coming in...(right?)  What is a good ratio to 'feel out.'  I have heard 60% board, 40% mics, although I will need to adequately capture the drums through the c4s.   I will probably run split onstage about 10' apart.   alright im rambling, you get the picture. thanks for any advice!  andy

[leehookem]

when I used my UA5 for a matrix I ran cards onstage (DINa).  And the gain knob around the 11 o'clock position.

[shruggy1987]

if the mics are onstage, you might actually want less board in the mix than 60/40

[leshlush]

I have heard 60% board, 40% mics

I had heard the opposite ratio, anywhere from 60% audience + 40% board to 80% audience + 20% board...

I guess it all depends on what you're looking for...

I've personally done it using about 80% audience + 20% board and I was quite satisfied w/ the results... Then again, I was looking for the soundboard to just re-inforce my mics... I personally prefer the audience sound over the board sound but that little bit of board in the mix helps to crispen up some of the mids and highs...

Just my 2 cents...

+T for your first matrix

[poorlyconditioned]

Monitoring is important.

If in doubt, put in less board than you need.  The big risk is you get too much board and it sounds bad, esp. if the vocals are even just a bit off.

Here is a problem I've noticed with monitoring.  Suppose you're listening with closed phones.  It sounds good, but only because you've got "bleed" from the room/stage mixing with mostly board from the phones.  When you listen after you realize you've got too much soundboard  .  I've ruined a few tapes this way.

The only way I've been able to monitor correctly is using a surplus headset from helicopter pilots I think.  I used this just to isolate.  Inside I listen on standard (non isolating) earbuds.  I've never been able to monitor using standard headphones or isolating earbuds.

Anyway, good luck!

  Richard

[SparkE!]

A mic recording will record pretty much exactly what it sounds like in the room.  The thing is that people's ears generally don't like to hear some other room's acoustics being played in the room where they are.  Somehow it will sound distant or boomy to them. The idea is to get enough dry signal from the sound board to offset that effect.  The trick is to get just enough of the dry sound board signal that the resulting mix sounds "real" when played back in another (usually smaller) room.  To my ears, that usually happens with about 40% of the signal power coming from the sound board.  If you go more than that, you need to make sure that you have a full, balanced mix in the soundboard signal.  That's usually not the case in a smaller venue because the soundboard signal is used mainly to augment the stage sources that don't have their own amp and speakers on stage.  So, soundboard signals in smaller venues tend to be composed mainly of vocals and drums and will lack lead guitar and bass.  That's the main reason to go as light on the board as you can, yet still use enough board signal to overcome our natural tendency not to want to hear another room's acoustics being played in the room where we are.

[cleantone]

Try 100% soundboard and 80% stage mics... 

[wbrisette]

Monitoring is important.
......

 I've never been able to monitor using standard headphones or isolating earbuds.

Monitoring is an absolute when you start using more than 2 mics. I've never been able to figure out why people keep trying to use headphones to monitor in a loud venue. It just isn't going to work. If you want headphones that you can really monitor with, try something like this:

These are the Remote Audio headphones
http://www.trewaudio.com/hn7506.htm

or try the Etymotic 4 series earphones. Either of these will really allow you to hear your mix in loud environments.

Wayne

[krebsy]

My preference for stage/board mixes has been to favor the stage mics, but make sure I have enough board to get decent vocals.  If you don't have good isolating headphones to monitor on the fly, at least use what headphones you do have to give a listen to your recording between sets. If they do a soundcheck, record it and make some adjustments from there for the main performance recording.  Personally, I'm usually better off not fiddling with the levels too much during the performance since I don't have good 'phones.  I just set it and let it ride for the most part.

[Kush]

Do a search for "Enter the Matrix" on here, it's a .pdf guide to making a matrix put together by mmmatt. Approx. 20 pages to get you started. I read it several times before doing my first matrix, very helpful.

[palmettobum]

Nice!  Many thanks for the helpful responses.  I feel much much better about 'entering the matrix.'  This is an experiment for me, so I will try out some differnt levels during the first set and adjust.  I will definitely have some good isolating earbuds and chance to listen between sets.  Thanks again!  You folks rock! 


andy