Topic: Sony MZ-NH700, Hi-MD, battery-life and PCM vs. Hi-SP?

[mysterymadman]

Hi,

I have a few simple, yet important (for me), questions regarding the Sony MZ-NH700 (and perhaps Hi-MD recorders in general).

The situation:
I used to use a regular MD recorder (Sony MZ-R50), and last week I found out it is pretty much broken beyond my repair skills (I spent quite a few hours on it, but a small mechanical device is not running properly, and I can't finetune it). At present, we have a baby underway, so my financial means are very limited for upgrading the gear (I had set out a maximum of around 100 Euros). Consequently, I looked into the options I had (both in terms of desired specs, and money), and I decided on looking for a good (used) MZ-NH700 recorder. Anyway, I know the disadvantages of not having a backlit LCD screen, etc., but this is the recorder I decided on, and I have acquired a nice one (hardly used at all), including 2 1GB discs, and 11 regular MD discs and a Samsonite carrying bag for 100 Euros. So far, so good. And though the recorder feels a bit more flimsy than my old one does, it nicely meets my stealth requirements, and it can be used with the ECM-717 mic, which I previously also used.

Now, I'll already need the recorder on June 16th for taping a major festival. So, time is very short for extensively testing it, and hence, I'm hoping some of you can give me a quick start regarding some rather basic questions.

The actual questions:
1-Regarding battery usage: I was most delighted to see it use a regular AA battery (which was actually one of the reasons I chose this recorder), and noticed that it takes a regular(?) provided Ni-MH 700mAh battery. Now, common sense would suggest that the ideal batteries to use, would then be high capacity (e.g. 1800mAh, or even 2500mAh) Ni-MH batteries. However, yesterday evening I tested it with an 1800mAh one, and after having recorded only one full 1GB disc in Hi-MD PCM mode, the recorder already mentioned "not enough power to edit". Perhaps that very battery was flaky, or somehow not fully charged (though it should have been), so I'm repeating that test now with a different battery of the same type. Also, the manual does not recommend using other Ni-MH batteries than the one provided, but rather it recommends only using a regular AA alkaline one as an alternative. Can anyone comment on the most ideal type of battery, and does anyone have any reliable insight into how long one can really record in Hi-MD PCM mode (e.g. using the provided battery, using an 1800mAh Ni-MH one, or a 2500 Ni-MH one)?
2-Regarding PCM vs Hi-SP mode: obviously it would be best to record as much as possible in PCM mode, yet, in order to drastically reduce the amount of required discs (and batteries?), I'm considering taping all of the first acts (some 6 hours worth of music) in Hi-SP mode (which should fit one 1GB disc then), and only the major headliner (Iron Maiden), which is of my primary interest, in PCM mode. Can anyone comment on just how good (or "bad") the Hi-SP mode is? I know that basically any type of compression is frowned upon, but does this also (strongly) hold for the ATRAC3plus 256KHz (i.e. Hi-SP) mode, or is this an acceptable amount of compression within the traders circuit?
3-As far as I can tell from the manual (and also from the recorder?), after having recorded in manual mode (with a custom sound level), and after having stopped the recorder, it reverts back to AGC (= Auto Gain Control?) mode. Is this correct, and if so, is there a way to safe the manual sound levels, etc.? I thought the "disc memory" setting would do this, but that doesn't seem to affect the recording settings, as far as I can tell from the manual...
4-Transferring files to a Windows machine is no problem for me, but my current main machine is a Macbook Pro. So far, I haven't seen any (officially mentioned) direct way of transferring files from the MD to the Mac. Does anyone have a way of doing this?
Any suggestions/comments/slacking even, is more than welcome.

Cheers,
MM

[Arni99]

my sony mz-rh1 makes about 5-6 hours in PCM mode recording until the battery(LIP-4wm) is gone.
HI-SP mode isn´t really bad compared to PCM.

dimeadozen accepts HI-SP recordings as long as they are 1st origin and digitally transfered ie. HI-SP=>USB to your PC=>WAV with sonic stage=>FLAC level 8.

maybe you should try to find a new battery for your recorder on ebay.

never forget:
The most important parameter that will bring you a GOOD sounding recording is your mic!
a good mic in HI-SP recorded sounds 10 times better than a cheap mic recorded PCM show.

[mysterymadman]

Hi,

Tnx for the answers. Good to know that DaD at least would accept Hi-Sp recordings. I hope the same goes for (most of) the rest of the trading circuit!

Then: I completely hear you regarding the mic. So far I've not been unsatisfied with the ECM-717, perhaps someone can tell me if this mic is good, or if other (preferrably not too expensive mics with external battery boxes) give far better quality?

Probably I won't try to get a new mic before this show, but perhaps afterwards...

Cheers,
MM

[Arni99]

here u can listen to 2 samples i recorded with my gear.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84929.0.html

[dunebug81]

when I had the RH10 I used the Lithium AA batteries made by Energizer and a single one of those would run the unit all day long and then some.  you should get a good 5 hours on PCM if you're recording with both internal and external batteries.  It sounds like you may need to disccharge and recharge your batteries once or twice (especially if they havnt been used much).

As far as HISP vs PCM, I've never really heard much of a difference between the two excpt during really bass heavy shows.   I tend to run line in at about 27/30 which is pretty hot and the levels usually hit the last bar.  If running PCM hot the bass doesnt distort but if i were to run that hot on HISP i might clip a little so I back it down a notch or two.  I split the signal coming out of my dpas and ran RH10 in HISP and the RH1 in PCM and I can't tell the difference.  If you're interested I can dig out those tapes and post them for you.

[flintstone]

1-"not enough power to edit".
Since the Prime Directive for minidisc machines is to have enough power to write the TOC at the end of the recording, the power monitor circuit tends to be very conservative.

I've read elsewhere that the battery monitoring circuitry in the NH700 (and probably in other Hi-MD models) is easily confused by different types of battery.  So if you use a cell with more mAh than the one provided by Sony, you'll get more recording time, but not as much as you might expect by the mAh rating of the battery.

Many people power their Hi-MD machines using an external battery pack that provides 5V power to the USB port of the recorder. The machine will run off USB power when there is no AA cell in the battery compartment.  The Hi-MD machine, like most handheld recorders, has a Mini-B USB connector. Check the Remote Power forum of this board for plenty of ideas about powering a recorder via the USB port.  One example is the Macally IP-A481.

2-Regarding PCM vs Hi-SP mode
Listening via standard headphones or living room stereo gear, most people can't tell the difference between modern ATRAC and PCM.  If you use a digital audio workstation you can tell.  So it really comes down to how you plan to use the recorded material.  If it's for your personal enjoyment, ATRAC should be fine. 

3-reverts back to AGC
Yes, that's a "feature" of all Sony recorders, except the newest models MZ-RH1 and MZ-M200.  These models have manual level control as the default.

4-transferring files from the MD to the Mac.
Sony's SonicStage software is written for PCs only.  After a lot of complaining from customers, Sony wrote a "Hi-MD Music Transfer for Mac" program.  But it only works on relatively recent Hi-MD machines, specifically MZ-RH1, MZ-M10, MZ-M100 and MZ-M200. 

The workaround is to play your recordings on the HI-MD recorder through the line-out port, and record the analog signal on the Mac.  This happens in real time, meaning that a 30 minute recording takes 30 minutes to transfer to the Mac.

Flintstone

[mysterymadman]

Hi guys,

Tnx a lot for your answers, they are very helpful!

On the forums at www.minidisc.org I asked the same questions, and some helpful answers were given there too. Down below follows a slightly edited version of what I just posted there.

>You can buy a backlit remote if you use it in the dark.

Well, I considered that, but I'm not familiar with a remote that will also show advanced settings, like setting the recording value manually (I doubt there are any that will have a display including level meters, etc.), which is a crucial feature. But then, my old MZ-R50 didn't feature a backlit display either, and when lighting the display with my mobile phone, so far I've always managed to make do; even if it is somewhat more of a hassle.

Regarding Batteries: yes, the possibility of using a regular AA battery is a BIG plus, and the option of using an external 5V source on the USB port is a great idea too, which I hadn't even considered!
Anyway, I am glad to say that today I completed the duration test with another Panasonic 1800mAh battery, and this time I could record 4 complete 1GB discs in Hi-MD PCM mode, before it mentioned "not enough power to edit", at which point the battery indicator still showed it was half full. Anyway, I now have a pretty good insight into the battery usage, and I now know that 2 batteries should be enough to tape the complete festival, and I'll probably bring some 3 to 4 spares, just to be sure.

Then regarding Hi-SP vs. PCM: I too directly believe you guys in the respect that the differences are (virtually) not audible. However, there are two reasons for probably trying to go for PCM as much as possible anyway:
1) I'm not much of a trader myself, but I am very well connected in Iron Maiden trading networks. In most of them, the tapers/traders go as much as possible for completely lossless recordings, so even though my previous IM recording was on a regular MD (and sampled into the PC at that), I'd like the quality to be as high as possible, even if the differences are mostly "theoretical rather than audible".
2) I hadn't considered the post processing stage in this. Indeed, I too tend to (at the very least) normalise up to 0dB, which could then perhaps indeed pick up such "compression garbage" and amplify it too. This is a very good point for not using compression for live recordings.

Either way: there are SO many factors that can negatively influence a recording, and using slight compression is probably only a minor one of those, so in that aspect one can of course easily relax, especially since these are live recordings for usage amongst fans only, and they are not commercial releases or so. Anyway, of course it's best to eliminate as many negative factors as possible, so whenever possible, I'll simply go for PCM recordings, and if this is not an option, I'll comfortably revert to Hi-SP mode.

Finally, regarding data transfer to the Mac: sampling the data into it over the analogue input is not an option for me, as one of the major reasons why I wanted a Hi-MD is the USB support, such that no further data loss would be introduced by having to pass the recording through another D/A - A/D stage. 
Transfering the data to Windows (and then to OS-X) is no issue: I have Windows XP running in a separate Bootcamp partition, so performing a native Windows XP session (for transferring the files using SonicStage) is no problem. Also, I have made that same installation available through Parallels, so passing the files to OS-X is a dooze. It would just have been nice if I could have passed it directly to the Mac OS, but fortunately there's no real issue in not being able to do so.

Tnx again, and cheers!
MM

[boojum]

SONY says for the RH1 you can record about six hours PCM on 1 GB discs and about eight and a half on the standard minidiscs in SP.  I got this from the RH1 manual.  YMMV