Topic: Miniature Microphone "Lay of the Land"

[reba_103194]

Hey fellow geeks...  I'm finally planning to take the plunge and get a pair of mics and a pre-amp.
In deciding what to get, it seemed the best idea to first get a list of the various options commercially available right now, and then go to archive.org and listen to tapes made with the various mics.  I plan to get a small preamp / BB once I decide what mics to get and hopefully it will be able to be wired up with the appropriate connectors.

So - I'd like to share the list I have come up with so far.
Please PM or reply if you have any additions, comments, or advice.. I will GREATLY appreciate your help.
I have read through many pages of comments so far on this board, but am still hungry for more

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* Miniature * mic options for amplified live music:

CRITERIA: $100 - $1000 per pair, and less than 1.5" long
Frequency response is assumed to be 20Hz-20kHz unless otherwise noted.



AKG
C417                                    Omni                            6dB HF boost then 12 dB drop from peak

Audio Technica
MT350 (SP-BMC-12)                       Omni
MT830R                                  Omni                            30Hz - 20kHz
803B                                    Omni                            30Hz - 20kHz w/ 5dB LF & HF boost
831 (SP-CMC-2)                          Card
U853R                                   Card
898 (SP-CMC-9)                          Card                            200Hz - 15kHz
899 (SP-BMC-10)                         Omni                            (w/low sens mod)
943 (SP-CMC-8, replaces 933)            Card/Hyper/Omni                 (w/low sens mod, lightweight cable)
- Additional caps for 853/933/943:      Card/Hyper/Omni
- Element adapter for 933/943

Audix
ADX5                                    Omni                            HF boost up to 8dB

Beyerdynamic
MCE5                                    Omni
MCE10                                   Hyper
MCE60                                   Omni

Bogen
WCU250                                  Card

Chris Church Audio
CA-11                                   Card
CA-14                                   Card
B-99A                                   Omni

Core Sound
Binaurals                               Omni
Stealthy Card                           Card

Countryman
B3                                      Omni                            30Hz - 20kHz

Crown Audio
GLM100                                  Omni                            5 db LF limit < 50Hz, 2dB HF boost

DPA
4060/4061                               Omni

Nevaton
MCE400                                  Omni                           

PSC
MilliMic                                                                40Hz - 16kHz

Sanken
COS-11                                  Omni                            50Hz - 20kHz w/ 8dB HF boost

Sennheiser
MM-HLSC-1                               Card                            30Hz - 20kHz
ME4                                     Card                            60Hz - 18kHz
MKE Platinum                            Omni                           
MKE 1                                   Omni                            3dB HF boost
MKE 2 Gold                              Omni                           
ME 102                                  Omni                            40Hz – 20kHz w/ LF limit and 4dB HF boost

Shure
Countryman WCB6                         Omni                            30Hz - 20kHz
MX183                                   Omni                            50Hz - 17kHz w/ LF limit
MX184                                   Super                           50Hz - 17kHz w/ LF limit
MX185                                   Card                            50Hz - 17kHz w/ 5dB HF boost
MC50                                    Omni                            4dB HF boost


Sonic Studios
DSM 6S/L                                Omni                            5Hz - 25kHz

[Sunday Driver]

haha, I feel like I've been through this list so many times...I bet I could recite it from memory.

Hey, you can add the Shure MX185 to your list. Sound Pro used to sell them I think. Nice sound, but they had a somewhat limited frequency response.

[carpa]

Probably a stupid question, but it's something I've been wondering a lot of times reading posts on TS.
I can easily understand the advantages of Miniature Microphones, which can be essentially these (correct me if I'm wrong):

1) possibility of sthealthing as they are little
2) they are light, so you don't have to bring around a lot of heavy gear. This involves -I guess- not only the mic itself but also stands which can be very light
3) they have often the possibility of being powered by a little battery box so they can be used with a pocket recorder without needing an external 48v phantom power

What I would like to know are the limitations (if there are) in using them and the main sound differences compared to "normal dimension" microphone, assuming one's not interested in sthealting. Of course the sound varies from one model to another, and obviously a couple of dpa will sound better than a couple of 30dollar mics, but I'm talking about general features (noise floor, spl, placement etc). 
thank you
c

[carpa]

I forgot something:
in the above Reba's list it is mentioned:mics for amplified music. Maybe miniature mics are only for this type of recording?
c

[guysonic]

I forgot something:
in the above Reba's list it is mentioned:mics for amplified music. Maybe miniature mics are only for this type of recording?
c

Miniature mics can recording virtually ANY TYPE of sound without limitations.

Some makes of miniature mics do have excessive noise, and limited not so natural frequency response, but not all are so slated to mostly be acceptable for recording solely pop/rock amplified venues with a 'hyped' mid-high frequency coloration that's currently quite popular with many venue recordists.

My company makes 6 models of DSM precision matched 5-to-40,000+ Hz range omni mics mostly meant for head or baffle HRTF type mounting.  For example, the DSM-1S/H model is very low noise, natural sounding, and  excellent for rural nature/urban ambient sounds recording, but limited to low loudness acoustic sounds recording.  An other model, the DSM-6S/EL is not so quiet, but handles extreme loudness well enough to have been placed inside full-blown race cars for film sound-effects projects.

Best way to judge how suitable a mic is for your purposes is observing the manufacturer's use suggestions, and mostly by careful listening to many raw (unedited without post effects processing/enhancement) recording samples of sounds identical to your interests made in many different ambient/venue circumstances. 

This is important because even a bad sounding mic can sound excellent in limited narrow circumstances, but will show its true worth quickly when used for recording many other sounds in many different circumstances. 

So having many different raw samples gives best chance of choosing the most appropriate mic, and knowing how the mic was being used for doing those samples if required so the mic/method closely matches your audio quality expectations and live working style.

After settling on which mic has best chance of working as needed, then choose an appropriate deck/preamp working with that mic to complete your recording system.  Anyway, that's the way I'd suggest doing things.

My company's mic chart with models/suggestions at: www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm

Sample recordings of ambient natural sounds and acoustic subjects with full gear notes at: www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm

Music sessions/performances at: www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm

Recording tips about HRTF baffled omni recording method/gear, portable deck models/reviews/links, and much more at: www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm

[jlykos]

I normally don't fluff manufacturers' products when the manufacturer is a member of this board, but I was able to find some Sonic Studios DSM-6/L mics used, in excellent condition, for $200.  I finally got the chance to use them on Saturday and I am very, very impressed at how they sound.  I ran them mic-in to a Sony PCM-D50 (which powers them perfectly; no preamp required) and the results are fantastic.

You may want to look at the Yard Sale section of the site to see if you can find anything used there; you can save some cash that way.  Pick up a used Sony PCM-D50 for ~$350 - $400 and the DSM-6/L mics for ~$200 - $250 and you are in business for not a whole lot of cash.

[sunjan]

A bunch of the models you mention come with either exchangeable caps or in alternative caps/flavors. But maybe that's outside the scope of this listing?!

[illconditioned]

If you want to hear some various omni mics, check out my clips at:
  http:://Soundmann.com

My favourite mics right now are Countryman B3 (look for the Molly Johnson and Bourbon clips, probably the best sounding PA recording I have made to date).  My second favourite are Sennheiser KE4 (listen to Timber Timbre clip, electroacoustic stuff in a tiny living room).  I'm currently evaluating Chris Church CAFS, but don't have samples yet.  Note that all these mics will operate with plug-in-power on Edirol R09 or Sony PCM-D50.  Oh yeah, I prefer all of these to DPA406x.  The DPA406x are very realistic, but I don't like the way they sound for music.  YMMV.

  Richard

[Chuck]

You can add modified (Franken-Nak) Nakamichi CM300's to the list. Though they fall slightly outside of the 1 1/2 inch long spec at 50mm.

Naiant's microphones: http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html should also be included, though they fall under the $100 limit.

[JD]

Don't forget the Nevaton MCE400's. Great sounding mics!

[carpa]

I have noticed that almost all miniature mics don't have a great self noise (normally it is about 24-28 db) and often don't have much output.
Is there a reason for this?
c

[DSatz]

carpa, a 24 dB SPL equivalent noise specification (you seem to be looking at CCIR weighted quasi-peak figures) is actually very good in practical terms. How often do you record in venues with a noise floor anywhere near that quiet?

Maybe you're comparing those noise specifications with A-weighted/rms equivalent noise specifications, which are usually some 10-12 dB lower. But such numbers aren't at all realistic. "A" weighting was designed to approximate the way we hear at considerably higher sound pressure levels, while the "rms" part means that averaging is used to smooth over any impulse-like components in the noise, which however are very noticeable and should NOT be smoothed away.

--best regards

[ghellquist]

When talking omni microphones, small really is beatiful. The small DPA-s, eg 4060, sounds as good as the large mics. They even have a better omni pattern as the small mic shades less of high frequencys coming from the back.

What you trade is a higher noise floor and lower output. Basically because the output from the mic membrane is lower and takes more amplification to be useable. (Note, this is a simplification). But if you take care and match the microphone with the rigth preamp this will be less of a problem. And if you choose the microphone after the intended application it will be no problem at all.

In my, albeit limited, experience, if you add about 10dB to the noise figure (A-weighted rms) given by the manufacturer it sets the limit for room noise. Above this and the mic noise will not be heard, below this and it will effect the recording. So if the mic states 25dB self noise, add 10dB and you get 35dB as a lower limit. This is around very quiet bed room level (without snooring people) so it will not be a problem in a crowd. It might become an issue if you record chamber music in a good hall though.

Another important thing is to match the mic with pre and recorder. As an example you might look at the DPA4060 that had too much output for the Broadway musical radio transmitters. Hence the 4061 was born. You might believe that the benefit is a higher top SPL, but frankly, the 4060 is way up real world sound anyway.

// Gunnar

[carpa]

Thank you everybody for your advice. I own an Edirol R09hr and I like it. I recently recorded ony one performance with the recorder about 60-70 cm from the piano, 1mt 30cm high, pointing towards the string; the result came not bad, but I would like to upgrade.

 I used to record my solo piano or chamber music concert with a mic (sony ecm979, I posted elsewhere) which I'll know in a bunch of days if it will be possible to repair or not.
So I'm reading around to search for something.

Some points on which I need your advice in choosing two miniature instead of a strereo, and please correct me where I'm wrong:
1) I'm pointing my attention on a stereo mic ( rode nt4, usable with edirol) only for easy set up and portability purpouse; a stereo mic is always cardioids, so there's no choice.

2) in case of two mono mics the option of two miniature  would be for me the only alternative to two "big" mics; I could clip them on one stand (i.e. a stand for sheet music or something like this, easy to bring and discrete). That's why I need to compare two minature vs.a stereo mic and I stepped into noise specs, sensitivity etc. !
I don't have any limitation in placement (not stealth at all), from stage lip to very close miking ( even inside the piano), so I think (but not sure) that omnis would do a good job. If I use them spaced they would probably provide an accettable stereo image, and the sound is more natural and less coloured. Suggest me please what would do better between cards and omnis.

3)I can't afford  dpa4060 and similar, so the option would probably be something like Church CA14 (omnis or cards?), battery box or preamp (I don't know if Church sells overseas-I live in italy). In your experience, how the church gear (or something on the price range) would do for classical unamplified music compared to a stereo mic?

4) My questions are not in general terms, but related to the use with my edirol R09hr; so any consideration about noise level, output, powering has to be made in relation to this deck.
Thank you very much for your kind help. I guess I will help somebody in turn. If you have questions on pianos or piano literature please ask...........

c

[IanR]

Shure WL-183 omnis are worth a look too.

I've been using mine the past few weeks with an Olympus LS-10 and Edirol R09-HR and am pretty pleased with the results - self noise is around 22-23dBV, similar to DPA 4060/61s but a lot cheaper. I clip mine on to each side of a beanie hat for head-worn style stereo.

Their leads terminate in 4-pin mini-XLRs so you'll need to work something out wiring-wise, this informative web page has links and suggestions about how to proceed:

http://www.uwm.edu/~type/audio-reports/Shure-WL183s/index.htm