Topic: How to get the most out of your AT 853s?

[Javier Cinakowski]

Also, the only folks I ever see suggest that the phantom adapters->ps2 is the best way to run AT's are people that currently run them.  I rarely see someone who has owned all setups (phantom adapter, 3-wire, 2-wire) chose phantom adapter.

I haven't owned all 3 of those setups but have heard enough of them to know that my preference lies with my current setup: AT853C/H/O/SC > Samson PM4 > SD MP-2 > R-09HR @ 24/96 (all cables are silvers other than the AT cable attached to the mics). I really like this setup...I don't think I've ever heard 853's sound better. A different preamp might add a different flavor but I can't see it getting much better.

If you are totally set on using 853's with a phantom rig, get a a pair of U873Rs and run them like a normal mic, they will out perform any of the options outlined above...

Doubt that...I'd be willing to bet the circuitry in the U873 is very similar to most common phantom adapters. That being said...I've got a pair that I bought used in the YS and I never have used...would be willing to offer them up for the price I paid, $60, if anyone wants them.

you reinforce my point perfectly.  "Don't knock something unless you have truely treid it."

[ashevillain]

you reinforce my point perfectly.  "Don't knock something unless you have truely treid it."

No, actually I don't.

I have listened to recordings made with other setups. I prefer my setup. What difference does it make if I've owned the other setups?

[Javier Cinakowski]

There are so many variables in someone elses recording that you have no reference to, making comparisons much more difficult than direct comparison of your own equipment.

I understand your preference, but here is my ultimate point.  853's are electret mics.  The only reason they are sold with phantom adapters is for convienience.  it gives a balanced output for long cable runs and allows integration into typical xlr inputs.  I can't comprehend how a more direct circuit like a 3-wire battery box setup could sound worse than the transformers and other shit used inside than phantom adapters.  i would prefer a direct route for my electrets, not a conversion....

[Will_S]

There are so many variables in someone elses recording that you have no reference to, making comparisons much more difficult than direct comparison of your own equipment.

Agree.

I understand your preference, but here is my ultimate point.  853's are electret mics.  The only reason they are sold with phantom adapters is for convienience.  it gives a balanced output for long cable runs and allows integration into typical xlr inputs.

Agree.

I can't comprehend how a more direct circuit like a 3-wire battery box setup could sound worse than the transformers and other shit used inside than phantom adapters. 

Perhaps some folks are basing their opinion on a DIY 3-wire battery box that didn't use the best parts?  Some folks may like the soinc signature of the transformers?  After all, the ATs could use a little warmth IMO...

[Javier Cinakowski]

Great point Will_S.   I agree on all counts.    Perhaps folks do prefer the sound of the adapters, I can accept that....  Hell, I enjoy listening to my playback through all types of processors, sometimes a little distortion can sound good!

[Sunday Driver]

Perhaps some folks are basing their opinion on a DIY 3-wire battery box that didn't use the best parts?  Some folks may like the soinc signature of the transformers?

Isn't that exactly what I was referring to earlier in this thread? 
If there was a 3-wire battery box that sounded as good as the Denecke PS-2, I would get rid of all the extra gear and move to it instantly. But I've still yet to hear one. Certainly, the one I built didn't come close.

[Javier Cinakowski]

there isn't much to a battery box.  If you used 1% tolerance metal film resistors and caps, it isnt going to get much better than that.

I can respect that you like the sound of one box over the other, and that is the best reason to make an audio decision.  If you like how the PS-2 sounds that is fantastic.    I personally love how the Oade SBM-1 sounds with 853's.  Fortunatly it's sonic signature can be introduced without converting the signal by a phantom adapter. 

[Church-Audio]

you reinforce my point perfectly.  "Don't knock something unless you have truely treid it."

No, actually I don't.

I have listened to recordings made with other setups. I prefer my setup. What difference does it make if I've owned the other setups?

In order to objectively evaluate any rig or its differences you must have one source and very close placement of all the mics to that source so you can hear the gear and not the differences in venue and recording techniques used like others have said way to many variables to be objective.

[Roving Sign]

Perhaps some folks are basing their opinion on a DIY 3-wire battery box that didn't use the best parts?  Some folks may like the soinc signature of the transformers?

Isn't that exactly what I was referring to earlier in this thread? 
If there was a 3-wire battery box that sounded as good as the Denecke PS-2, I would get rid of all the extra gear and move to it instantly. But I've still yet to hear one. Certainly, the one I built didn't come close.

Does the Deneke really have a "sound"?...its a phantom supply and - ideally - should have no sonic signature. All it does is turn the mic "on". If anything is giving you a "sound", it would be the adapters and their electronics - not the PS2. Have you used a different phantom supply?

Sound or not - the idea of using one device to raise 9V to 48v...and then connect the adapter to drop it back to 9V - seems a bit inefficient battery-wise.

[SmokinJoe]

It's my understanding that the AT853's are designed for balanced use.  The R09 is an unbalanced input... so somewhere along the way you have to perform this balanced to unbalanced conversion... whether you really deal with it, or "make it fit" by just wiring it together.  I think the transformer inside the AT8533 adapters is the right way to deal with this.

I have AT853's 2 wire with, and without, 4.7k mod, and I have ones with the phantom adapters.  I don't have the 3 wire battery box setup.  I haven't done AB comps, but I think I like the ones with the phantom adapters best... as far as overall frequency response, but I do use the 2 wire ones for low profile.

[Nick's Picks]

I've run them stock, 4.7k MOD and w/phantom.  I can never tell a difference between any of it.

[nameloc01]

I think the question is how to get the most out of them....not what everyones opinion is.

The highest spl handling is with 3 wire / phantom.
The lowest noise floor is with 3 wire / phantom.

Whether or not someone finds it easier to stealth one way or another, or which ever way is less costly is completely irrelevant.

[Church-Audio]

I think the question is how to get the most out of them....not what everyones opinion is.

The highest spl handling is with 3 wire / phantom.
The lowest noise floor is with 3 wire / phantom.

Whether or not someone finds it easier to stealth one way or another, or which ever way is less costly is completely irrelevant.

My mod actually makes the mics work better then three wire for max spl... and as far as noise floor goes well I have not measured it but both ways reduce the level by the same amount.

Chris

[taperwheeler]

Ran the u853 hyper caps the other night for the first time and must say, was very impressed.  I'd chime in that adding hypers and a subcard and/or omni element are definately ways to get more, offering flexibility and options.