Topic: Mic and placement suggestions for a group of eight tabla players

[mark_ivan]

I have an opportunity to record eight tabla players as a group (all pretty much playing the same thing, no 'parts').
This is during their rehearsal time, but it affords me an opportunity to monkey around with different mic positions and learn.

Mics that I currently have are a pair of Busman BSC1 and a Sony ECM 999 stereo mic. Also have access to a Rode NT2A and an SM58.

They are playing in a fairly large room (35' X 20' with 8' dropped ceiling) seated in an arcing line against a long wall, about 5' out from the wall.

Willing to spend a bit on new mics but don't think I can afford a bunch of AKG 414 at this point (say mic budget under $1k).

Able to record up to six tracks at a time (so can't put an SM57 on each player and use condensers for room for example).

Any suggestions for placement of the existing mics?
Suggestions for new mics that would be affordable and/or versatile beyond this specific use and placement for them?

Any opinions or suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks

[digifish_music]

Here's some articles that may be of interest...

http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_whole_enchilada/

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/articles/latin.htm

http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_big_beat/

I'd go for a spaced omni pair above the group and or NT4

digifish

[Brian Skalinder]

Since it sounds like the group is playing in unison, I'd want to capture an ambient recording of the whole group, not individual players to mix later.  For me, since I generally prefer a minimalist (ambient) approach to this type of recording, that would mean no spot micing, and not too close -- gotta give the multiple instruments some time & space to blend.  Otherwise, you'll hear the closest/loudest instruments/players real loud in the mix, and the others not so much.  That said, if there are multiple parts, it may make sense to spot mic a quieter part so you can control it in the mix a little better.  All depends on what type of sound you're after.

Depending on how the room sounds, I'd use either Jecklin disc omnis or a subcardioid / cardioid stereo pair, maybe adding a pair of flanking omnis.  But that's me, I'm sure you'll hear other perspectives.

[Gutbucket]

Wow, that's a lot of tablas.

I agree with Brian and suggest an ambient approach, both for the sound qualities and to keep things simple and manageable. The percussive nature of this sound lends itself to accurate imaging placement.  With the players in a deep arc you can place a stereo pair in the center and use one of the Stereo Zoom setups to spread the playback image of all 8 musicians evenly from speaker to speaker.  This is possibly the most perfect test case of the Stereo Zoom (which aims primarily for accurate, undistorted image placement) that I can imagine - placing each player in their own sector across the stage, while capturing the group as a whole. A link to the Stereo Zoom paper is at the top of this forum.

Generally I like using omnis and have been getting good results with 2 pairs, spaced 4 in a line across the front of acoustic groups - in this case you'd have a couple players between each adjacent pair.  But in this situation I'd probably place two directional pairs in different Stereo Zoom setups that use different spacings for the same stereo recording angle at the center (later choosing to use one or the other later) and possibly add a flanking pair of omnis (that you may want to blend in, or not). Alternately you might put the pair of omnis on a Jeckin disk at the center along with the other two pairs and have three different stereo pairs to choose from, keeping the one that sounds best.

^^^
That would be a great imaging comparison I'd love to hear. 

[boojum]

Lee and Brian have put out two very good suggestions both built on ambient recording:  a Williams array of cards or a Jecklin disc.  I am just starting to play with the Jecklin and like it a lot.  I am running two fine omni's with it and the sound has been very good from the first attempt. 

I am trying again this coming Tuesday from a higher position to get more "room" into the mix:  about 12 - 15' up, just behind the director/conductor aimed into the chorale.  This has worked well as an omni AB pair but without the dirctionality/localization I desire.  The Jecklin does that for me.  I ran it simoltaneously with a ORTF rig of a good pair of cards and prefer the Jecklin very much.

As usual, YMMV.     

[Church-Audio]

I have an opportunity to record eight tabla players as a group (all pretty much playing the same thing, no 'parts').
This is during their rehearsal time, but it affords me an opportunity to monkey around with different mic positions and learn.

Mics that I currently have are a pair of Busman BSC1 and a Sony ECM 999 stereo mic. Also have access to a Rode NT2A and an SM58.

They are playing in a fairly large room (35' X 20' with 8' dropped ceiling) seated in an arcing line against a long wall, about 5' out from the wall.

Willing to spend a bit on new mics but don't think I can afford a bunch of AKG 414 at this point (say mic budget under $1k).

Able to record up to six tracks at a time (so can't put an SM57 on each player and use condensers for room for example).

Any suggestions for placement of the existing mics?
Suggestions for new mics that would be affordable and/or versatile beyond this specific use and placement for them?

Any opinions or suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks

Single omni mic or pair of spaced omni mics with lots of gain hung from the ceiling. In the middle of the group.

Works for me every time....

Chris

[mark_ivan]

Thanks very much for all the info and ideas.

If I get time before this Sunday, might try to make a Jecklin disc, if I don't, will just try hanging the omni's spaced above the players and see how that sounds.

How closely matched do the omnis have to be across the freq range(+/- 5dB, +/- 2dB?)
I know my ears aren't very 'matched' at all, e.g. passing a telephone from one side of my head to the other sounds noticeably different to me.

Also interested in trying a Decca Tree with the two Busman as omnis and borrowing the Rode NT2 for the middle.

In the meantime, have to get back to watching the ProTools dvd so I don't goof something up while recording with the in-house setup.

Thanks again!

Mark

[sanaka]

Hey Mark, how'd it go?

My short answer to your 'what mic setup' questions is: A pair of PZM mics (I have Crown PZM-30D) on the floor in the middle of the arc.

The layout of the recording situation you describe is not far off of what I most often record. Not a choir of tablas but my own quasi-indian, mutably configured band of 1 or 2 harmoniums, 2 or 3 guitars, tabla, mridangam, various other stuff and assorted percussion all arrayed arc-like, everyone sitting on the floor. I started with Healy style spaced omni and have tried Decca tree and Decca tree with spot/fill mics. Results mostly depended heavily on nailing mic placement, which I find difficult. Got some nice recordings, some mediocre. This was with low dollar, Panasonic-capsule-mics-with-battery-box type equipment, which I'm sure contributed to the less than stellar captures.

Wanting something better and less touchy, I read alot about PZMs and decided to try them, and I love them! The setup is stone simple, just lay them a couple feet apart on the floor roughly in the middle of the action. They have an amazing, even pickup and great 'reach', pulling in distant sources so they sound closer, and to me a really nice natural sound, with a great stereo image (it is a time-diff type stereo, IIRC). They need a few square feet of hard surface for good bass response, so you must supply this if the venue is carpeted.

Check it:  http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/136367.pdf

Peace,
Sanaka

[mark_ivan]

Hi

Thanks for the comments.

My situation is, there is a local table ensemble that reheases in the place I take tabla lessons in.
They are rehearsing for a performance next month, and have the room mic'd so they can take parts of the rehearsal home to practice against. I showed an interest and am now manning the 3 or 4 mics in the rehearsal space feeding Mac/ProTools/Digi002Rack setup to capture parts of the rehearsals. I have been playing around with making a Jecklin disk, but haven't had a chance to set it up and try it yet with two Busman omnis that I have.

The disk is two discs of acoustic ceiling tile (35cm in dia) sandwiching a disk of 1/4" plywood, and then covered in Kapoc (upholstery stuff). I have a threaded 3/8" rod offset from centre to mount the mic holders on. Will cover in speaker fabric or fake fur.

Have to skip this weekend (Mother's day duties) but hopefully will get to try the disk next weekend.

It has been amazing to play with the gear they have in house, learn pro tools, and play with the placement of their in house mics (hodge podge of Rode NT2A, SM57, and others).

Will look in to PZMs more, I had a dissapointing experience years ago using a sole PZM to record a classical performance, and have since thought that they were just for 'room' mics.

Cheers!