Topic: In Need Of Rig Upgrade Input

[slightlys]

So its time. I just got a job again and now I need to throw some money at my hobby.
Right now i'm running adk tl 51s > bmp2+ mod UA-5> JB3. and I just don't no where to go from here. I love the TLs but I need some small diaphragm mics to go with them. I guess what I need to replace most is the JB3 it still works but I need a modern replacement for it. I'm looking to spend 1500-2000 total on the new mics and recorder. any feedback is appreciated.

[slightlys]

A penny for your thoughts! 

[Brian Skalinder]

First step in upgrading is deciding what you do and don't like about your current setup and what you do and don't want out of your new gear.  Once you've defined what you do and don't like and want, you may seek out gear that addresses that reasonably fits those preferences and desires (though this isn't always possible, in which case you have to decide which is more powerful:  likes, or dislikes).

[JasonSobel]

for $1500 - $2000, you've got a LOT of options.

you say that the JB3 has to go, personally, I think it's time for the UA-5 to go as well.  replace both those with either a modded Marantz PMD-661 or a modded Fostex FR-2LE, and you've gotten rid of one box, and have comparable or better sound, IMO.  The PMD-661 and the FR-2LE are similar, both in size and functionality (XLR input, phantom power, etc).  But my vote goes to the PMD-661, because it has a few more features (S/PDIF input, auxiliary 1/8" line-in, autosplit files (the FR-2LE stops recording when you get to 4gb), etc, etc).  of course, another option is to spend ~$1600 on a 702, but that won't leave you with much money for mics.  and most people will agree that it's better to spend more on mics, because a nice pair of mics makes more of a difference.

alright, so a modded PMD-661 will set you back ~$650, which leaves $850-$1350 for another pair of mics.  Here are just a few options in that range.  There are advantages/disadvantages with each, so you need to decide what is most important to you, whether or not you need the flexibility of multiple caps, whether or not you are fine with full body mics or want actives, etc, etc...

Neumann km184 (full body, fixed cardiod, definitely in your price range used)
AKG 480/ck61/62/ck63 (full body, several capsule options, in your price range used, but maybe not with all the caps)
beyerdynamic MC930 (full body, fixed card, in your price range new)
beyerdynamic CK930 ("active" cables, fixed card (although CK950 hypers are also available), in your price range new.)
milab's (active, in your range new or used)
mbho 603a (active, in your range used, Todd has a pair in the YS right now)
Peluso CEMC6 (full body, multiple cap options, in your range new or used)


this is just a short list, there are many more options than listed here as well.  all of these mics have very different sound to them, and you need to decide what you like best (mbho's for example, I really dislike the sound of, but if you talk to "Bean", he'll tell you they're the best mics out there).  so you need to figure out which mics you like the sound of, and whether or not you need to have multiple caps or active cables, etc, etc...

[Todd R]

mbho 603a (active, in your range used, Todd has a pair in the YS right now)

Couldn't have said it better myself.   Yes, buy my MBHOs -- very nice price for active-style microphones. [/shameless plug]


Well, not really the end of my shameless plug.   I do agree with your idea to go for some SD mics, since that will give you a lot of flexibility between the new SDs and your existing multi-pattern TLs.  I personally would recommend getting active-style SDs, since that adds to your flexibility.  Plus I've always been a proponent of them -- they allow low-profile recording, and thus ability to run fob when the mood strikes, allow a small compact gear bag, and allow very quick set up and tear down.  If you want to run with the whole kit and kaboodle and drag along everything, you can.  Or if you've got the active SDs, you can run low-profile, or have a small, quick set up for running around to different stages at a festival.

In terms of good sounding active mics, the MBHOs I have are definitely a contender, and really don't blow you're budget too bad.  Plus you can get a variety of capsules for them when you want to expand and upgrade.  Anyone who's been listening also knows I'm a huge proponent of the Milab VM44-link actives, which I own and love.  They are a great sounding mic, very reasonably priced, and have a lifetime warranty (as do the MBHOs).  You can get a pair for about $1300 new I believe.  Neumann km140 actives are very nice too, and if you can find a set used you can get them for your budget, but that will tap you out.  Beyer has a new active version of their mc930 mics, though I don't know too much about them.

I'd also recommend either of the recorders I have depending on what you're trying to do and how much you want to spend.  The Sony PCM-D50 is really a very well built and thought out recorder, sounds great, and has excellent battery life.  It sounds very good analog in, but also has an optical digital input.  So you could run 24bit digital out of your UA5 into the D50.

Also, if you're getting SDs and keeping the TLs, you could get into 4ch mixes.  So the Edirol R44 4ch recorder is also a good option, I love mine for 4ch work.  The R44 can take 2ch digital input and 2ch analog input, so you could run 2ch with mics> UA5 (24bit digital)> R44 and 2ch mics>R44.

So to sum up:
My MBHOs for $950
R44 for $900
 

[rowjimmytour]

I had the exact same set up before my current rig and I replaced the JB3 first because I had a extreme heat issues at HSMF '07. I went 24 bit and decided to go w/ 4 channel and bought a r4 (Oades T-Mod) and ran the TL's for about 6 months more. Like you I wanted some thing smaller and more compact then the LD's (which is about any mic compared to the TL's) but don't get me wrong I loved the 4 pattern set up and the recordings I pulled. I sold my TL's and scored some mc930's and haven't looked back since and even though they are cards I am able to run different configurations and score a lot of bang for $$$.

[slightlys]

i guess my main complaint about the adk's  is that they sound so boomy on the low end indoors. whereas out doors they sound awesome all around to my ear. I had a pair of SP C-4's at first and the low end was so smooth and not nearly as muddy for the most part indoors.
So that is what i'm looking for in a SD mic something with a more balanced low end than the TL's. As far as the JB3 goes I'm just facing reality that it has moving parts in a HD that will eventually fail from normal use so maybe something with flash or SD memory would be a good alternative. I like the suggestions about the two in one pre/recorders. I will have to read up on those. thanks for you feedback folks!

[Nick's Picks]

Personally....
I say keep the UA5, dump all your money into the front end (mics).
do a lot of listening..., decide exactly what you want to try.  buy USED from the yardsale.

if happy w/the purchase..., you can always sell the ua5>jb3 and put the proceeds towards a new deck (my vote would go for the PMD661 or Edirol R44).

Having good mics, and a good recording location will always trump just about anything else (including bit depth of recording).

[SmokinJoe]

All these mics, and mic/preamp combos, have subtle flavors.  I suggest you listen to a ton of samples on the archive and try to decide for yourself what YOU like.  You really have to listen to a lot, because it's easy to find one awesome tape made with rig X>Y and that's actually not indicative of what it sounds like.

After doing this for a few years, I've decided I like "clarity", and I'll give up some ass-kicking bass if that's what it takes to get clarity.  At least that's my opinion right now... it could change next year.  Other people want something else... like buttery smoothness.

Once in a while you are apt to get a boomy tape that you didn't expect.  It happened to me last week, but it doesn't happen often.  Then again... it was on-stage mics at a Funk band... so I guess that is to be expected.  But rather than redo the whole rig, I'll probably just roll the bass off a little in post.

My point... try to decide what YOU like... not what everyone else thinks is cool.

[rowjimmytour]

i guess my main complaint about the adk's  is that they sound so boomy on the low end indoors. whereas out doors they sound awesome all around to my ear. I had a pair of SP C-4's at first and the low end was so smooth and not nearly as muddy for the most part indoors.
So that is what i'm looking for in a SD mic something with a more balanced low end than the TL's. As far as the JB3 goes I'm just facing reality that it has moving parts in a HD that will eventually fail from normal use so maybe something with flash or SD memory would be a good alternative. I like the suggestions about the two in one pre/recorders. I will have to read up on those. thanks for you feedback folks!

I ran my TL's in a boomy bar w/ brick walls and found that when I ran the hypers DIN or DINA the low sounded nice I am not a big fan of XY but when I taped reggae or heavy bass stuff I would go for it.

[yltfan]

Not very popular around here, but I just got a pair of Audio Technica 4053 mics that I am very happy with. I got mine for $475 barely used, I have seen new ones for $660. You can use the 4053 hyper caps or the 4051 cardiod caps (and I think there might be an omni cap as well).

[Nick's Picks]

and the ATs are very under rated, IMO.  crisp and clean mics.  neutral w/a tad of sparkle

[easy jim]

I would get a R-44 and AKG, Beyer, or MBHO mics.