The Marantz looks like it may be a good option, my old non HDMI amp was a Marantz and I liked it. The local dealer that used to carry them no longer does so I'll have to chase one down. The Denon only has outputs for the Surround fronts, not the main front channels so it will not work for me. thanks for the advice. Anyone know of a Audiogon equivalent for AV stuff?