Topic: microphone splitting on stage

[spcyrfc]

can i split the mic cable before it goes to the board and take a signal that way, or would this have some adverse affect on the output (either for me, but more importantly for the whole audience)?

a band i record often has a singer that moves around stage constantly, his mic is wired.  would it work to take that signal, before eq or anything?  i know that if my cable failed... but i'll be by the rig for a quick fix if that happens.

thanks

[SmokinJoe]

I have some simple XLR splitter cables, and I have run Mics > splitter cables > both the Tmod and Warm mod channels on my R4.  It worked, but I have a nagging feeling that I was degrading the signal.  And actually, there is no doubt that by running into two preamp channels at the same time I was halving the input impedance and cutting the signal in half, and so there is "some difference".  This seed was done like that http://www.archive.org/details/moe2008-07-12.earthworks.flac16f

I has been stated here on TS that the "right way" to do it is to use proper splitters with transformers, but http://www.whirlwindusa.com/tech06split.html says:
Microphones can usually  be split to up to three, and in some cases even four, destinations without the use of electronics.

[spcyrfc]

the channel i was thinking about splitting would be the singers only microphone.  i'd split it onstage, just before it goes out to the board.  something like the splitter box sp1x2 would insure that i not degrade the signal? 

is there another way to do this?  like take a return from the sbd through a line on stage? 

i want to accomplish running multiple mics on stage, getting a direct sound from the singer's mic (like a board feed i suppose) and running a stereo pair from the audience.  ideally, i would not have to run 40-100+ ft. of cable to get sbd like sound.  then again, it'd be better not to have to run those cables back to my stereo pair.  is there a way around this?  am i thinking about it wrong?

bout to take a plunge into multi channel, so this is theoretical now, but hopefully not for too much longer.

[bgreen]

I really personally don't think I would want to mess with any signal before it hit the board if I was patching. If something did get messed up, I certainly wouldn't wanna be the guy blamed by the sound guys.

So your trying to run onstage mics, pull a board feed,  and run room mics?

[spcyrfc]

So your trying to run onstage mics, pull a board feed,  and run room mics?

something like that.  lots of cables tho.  it seems like it would produce a nice variety of signals to work with in post.
just trying to figure out in my head what i would do with a bunch of channels before i take the jump.

[ellaguru]

i have done exactly what you are asking about..i run a tascam 2488 which can do 8 tracks at once....ive used many combos of mic'd amps, board feeds, aud mics, on stage mics, signal spitters, etc for recording. my best results was a combo of aud mics (ceiling clamp hypers), some sm 57's on stage amps, and then splitting the lead vocal before it hit the snake.  the problem is that even with my (along with the in house) rack mount power conditioner thingy's, it seemed to create a ground loop that caused the p.a. to hum a bit more than normal.  i do think that the issue in my case is the wall wart for my minime, so perhaps with that on battery power the issue may have not existed...

good luck!
chris

[ghellquist]

For large stage productions this is the standard procedure. The mic signal is split twoways or often three ways, some times four ways: on-stage mixer (doing the sound on the stage), audience mixer, recording, TV send.

It is basically simply splitting the signal into several paths. No problem with signal strength, the input impedance of a standard microphone input is high enough to not effect this.

A professional splitter normally has a transformer inside. The reason is not to modify the sound, but to solve a completely different problem -- ground loops. All the different mixers has their own ground connections (through the mains) and this may get you into a trouble where currents goes through the ground lead. This may in itself not be a problem, but it can induce mains hum into the signal (50 or 60 Hz). Typically in a stage production there is a lot of lighting that creates a lot of electrical noise as well. So the professionals goes for transformers.

You do not need to go for a transformer as long as ground loops does not turn up to be a problem. Maybe your equipment is battery powered, not even grounded or you are close enough to the mixer and with little enough electrical noise going around.

I would create a simply Y-cable, ask for permission and be clear that if a problem occurs it is allowable to cut my recording out of the chain -- audience first. Just be certain that your equipment is phantom power "aware", the soundboard might output phantom power on all channels so your equipment should not choke on that.

// gunnar

[bgreen]

Very interesting thread, ya learn something every day. Almost all the stages I've worked on are small, as are the rooms so I've  just run my stage mics through the house snake and set up back at the board where they allow me to pull from individual channels or the mix from the board and then I  just run my room mics from there. I could see where the p48 could cause a problem splitting, didn't even consider that. Good info, ty.