Topic: Sony PCM-M10 and ECM-MS957 Issue

[neumannu47]

Since this is my first post, let me explain that I have been in and around the recording and broadcasting business for many years. I've built my own consoles and have a professional microphone collection that rivals some large studios.

Recently I purchased the PCM-M10 to record spoken presentations. For most sessions, the speaker will be wearing a Sennheiser EW lavalier mic and body pack. However, for some other non-music sessions, I wanted a stereo external mic. Since the Sony ECM-MS957 is recommended in the PCM-M10 manual, I thought it would be a good match.

While the mic works fine in the manual record mode, the maximum level I can get when the PCM-M10 is in the automatic mode is -24db. The recorder is very new to me, so that may be normal. If anyone has this same setup, it would be helpful to learn whether you observe the same performance. Of course I can normalize the resulting file, but at least another 10db of gain seems prudent to me. The -12db level indicators on the M10 will not light when using the ECM-MS957 in the automatic recording level mode.

The scope of my question is limited to this exact setup. In critical situations, I'll use my Neumann and other professional mics and preamps feeding the line inputs on the PCM-M10. For these particular sessions, it would be very advantageous to have this mic/recorder combination.

EDIT TO ADD: Upon further research, the problem, if there is one, is the PCM-M10. Even with the sensitivity switch set to high, when the unit is in the automatic record level mode, there is very low gain on the external mic. So now I only have two questions. 1) Is this very low level on the internal mic preamp when used with an external mic normal, or 2) is there a setting other than the sensitivity switch that determines the gain of the preamp? I can get to -12db with the internal mics, but not so with external mics.

[kleiner Rainer]

hi neumannu47,

my setup is a PCM-M10 with a Rode Stereo Video Mic. I use it to record steam trains. IIRC, the SVM has a sensitivity of 12.6mV/Pa. I checked the input levels of my M10 with a tone generator/millivoltmeter combination (Radio RIM PG-100):

Auto, sensitivity high:

-12dB: 13.6mV
-6dB:   29mV
Overload warning: 180mV

Auto, sensitivity low:

-12dB: 45mV
-6dB:   89mV
Overload warning: 580mV

IIRC, the Sony ECM-MS957 has a rather low sensitivity, so that you should better use manual level control and switch on the limiter.

I measured the following levels with Mic sensitivity high, manual control for 0dB FS:

10: 0.7mV
5:  5.5mV
2:  76.7mV
clipping occured at 180mV

Another option would be to use auto, high and 24bit recording and normalise afterwards to -1dB (the method I use). Rest assured, a hard driven steam locomotive at 10m distance will give -3dB readings even with auto, high as experienced last Tuesday :-))
So for me, it`s not a bug, its just right...


Greetings,

Rainer

[yug du nord]

Did you check/put in a battery?  Don't recall if it takes one or two AA's.
Are you running mic-in, or line-in?  You'll need to run mic-in for proper gain... unless you are using an external preamp.
I used to run MS-907....  which is the little brother to the 957.  I suggest getting familiar with your recorder and start using the manual recording level...  you need to be more attentive, but your recordings will thank you.

Those are my initial guesses......

[Ozpeter]

The auto setting is very crude on the M10 - it sets the input level to a fixed low value (seems to be around '3' on the dial) and it also engages the limiter.  It's not an "ALC" feature.  It would only be useful in providing a setting which would be hard to overload, and perhaps assumes you are making a 24 bit recording and normalising afterwards.