Topic: ORTF close-up in a club

[dlh]

I've taped once in this club, main room about 35 x 60.
Band is drums, keys, sax, bass, vox. They mic sax, vox, kick and keys.
My first taping was near the back, on a high stand with a result that was satisfactory but could be better. (I also taped the board and mixed in post.)
Those 2 mics were aimed at the stacks.

My ear liked the front table dead center about 12' from front of the band.
Is this too close for ORTF?
The left stack is against the wall, the right stack sits in the large opening to the next room.
I'm wondering about the reflections off of the left wall if I try ORTF.
It's not the end of the world; I'm doing this for fun and know the band, so one wasted set is no big deal.

I'm also going to run two tracks from an AT BP4025 which I use for ambient nature recording.  That mic has one of the strangest response curves I've ever seen.  I've not used it for music but have nothing to lose.  That mic delivers a good image but sonically it's a crap shoot.

So, opinions on using ORTF or should I just stick with stack taping?

[Shawn]

i've seen lots of guys run NOS that close. and FWIW stack taping, at least how I've generally heard the term used, is when you setup far to one side and attempt to only capture the sound from one side of the PA.

[acidjack]

I've often wondered this myself, and I feel like the good answer is the useless one, "try it; it's a matter of preference."  That said, it stands to reason that if your mic is aimed at a wall, you're recording a wall.  From your description, though, it sounds like if you're close enough, maybe the mics wouldn't be pointed THAT far outside the stacks?  12ft is pretty close.  As I envision it, I think it could sound good, though I guess it would be a little weird to only be picking up reflections from one side.

It can't hurt to try, but I would tend to believe that a somewhat narrower pattern or good ol' "point at the stacks" would likely be better...

[newplanet7]

FWIW I usually run ortf onstage/stage lip with great results.
Not sure why it wouldn't come out nice.

[Gutbucket]

I also wouldn't worry about running ORTF up close, that's pretty common.

The Stereo Recording Angle for ORTF is about +/- 48 degrees (somewhere near 100 degrees total) as seen from the mic's position.
Here's a visualization.

[slightlys]

I have used ORTF up close with good results. I still prefer NOS when stage lip though.

[OFOTD]

I have used ORTF up close with good results. I still prefer NOS Healy Method when stage lip though.

+1 with correction

[dlh]

I also wouldn't worry about running ORTF up close, that's pretty common.

The Stereo Recording Angle for ORTF is about +/- 48 degrees (somewhere near 100 degrees total) as seen from the mic's position.
Here's a visualization.

Thanks, visualization really helps; great link

[dgale]

I don't think you can really be too close for ORTF - more important is that you are not so close that you will miss the PA speakers.  Lip of stage recording is the most extreme example of this - works great for the right type of band, but when vocals and/or quieter instruments that are only heard via the PA feed are involved, these will suffer if you are recording too far forward.  Of course when you are up close and at risk of missing some of the PA, the wider patterns such as ORTF are more likely to pick it up.  I personally would never settle for "stack" recording from the back of the room unless this was the only place a venue will let you set up (i.e. the Fillmore in SF).  You already know what sort of results you get from the back, so be adventurous and give it a go.  Try one set ORTF and one set NOS and see which you like better. 

[deadheaded]

Here's a visualization.

Best link ever for us tapers!!!!

[rich]

Here's a visualization.

Best link ever for us tapers!!!!

^5. awesome link. thank you.

rich

[setboy]

Here's a visualization.

Best link ever for us tapers!!!!

^5. awesome link. thank you.

rich

Thank you!

[Gutbucket]

Here's a visualization.

It's fun to play with changing the values, and a good way to help visualze the Stereo Zoom concept.

Two things may not be immediately obvious:
Besides pluging in mic pattern, spacing & angle (or just choosing a preconfigured standard from the drop down box in the bottm left corner) you need to adjust the 'Orchestra Angle' (the angle in which the band fits) to have the visualization of the resulting playback distribution work right.
The gray outline around the mics is the combined stereo pickup pattern of both mics together- the total sensitivity to the room.. It's something that many people don't consider much, but very useful to consider for us when trying to reduce sounds bouncing off side walls vs back walls, etc.

Enjoy.

Lots of good stuff at that site.  Here's a bunch of helpful audio conversions.

[Johnny Thunder]

Here's a visualization.

It's fun to play with changing the values, and a good way to help visualze the Stereo Zoom concept.

Two things may not be immediately obvious:
Besides pluging in mic pattern, spacing & angle (or just choosing a preconfigured standard from the drop down box in the bottm left corner) you need to adjust the 'Orchestra Angle' (the angle in which the band fits) to have the visualization of the resulting playback distribution work right.
The gray outline around the mics is the combined stereo pickup pattern of both mics together- the total sensitivity to the room.. It's something that many people don't consider much, but very useful to consider for us when trying to reduce sounds bouncing off side walls vs back walls, etc.

Enjoy.

Lots of good stuff at that site.  Here's a bunch of helpful audio conversions.

Man, I ALWAYS love your posts. They're spot on and concise. This is one of the best I've read thus far. The visualization tool is really useful, ESPECIALY in the fact that you can plug in different values and get instant real-time looks at the effects of those changes. If you can't change the values, then it'd all be pretty academic, because you're only going to find that particular, "orchestra angle," maybe 1 time in 100. As you know, you HAVE to have an idea of how to modify your setups slightly to compensate for what's really going on at that particular event. Thanks again for this.

-JT