Topic: Help with last leg of recording equipment

[Lonman]

I am on the last leg of recording equipment needs and then off I go. ? is what is the best benefit at this point...better stealth ( i consider ca-14s stealth) or the addition of a stand alone deck moded for my needs. This is where I am at:
CA-14 o+c > 9100 > edirol R09hr
SP-C4's o,c,hc >little box > R09hr
mini 12v SP BB
mics cables; darktrain, nickspicks
Since i do mostly club taping acoustic/electric folk and jazz (no loud stuff)  where is the best benefit now: ugrade my stealth mics and strap the edirol to the littlebox and use that for running phantom to whatever the upgrade mics will be or ...think about a pmd 661 ambient mod  to use as a stand alone with whatever upgraded mics will be.  I haven;t used the littlebox in a club setting and it is almost too big but probably do-able....then upgraded mics the only expense ? Is the 661 that much smaller than the edirol/littlebox combo ?  Where is the best place place to put the $$ where my ears will benefit most? 500-700 greenback limit.

The TS has been a great resource and really I appreciate all the great suggestions thus far. Field testing learning curve next!

[Brian Skalinder]

The options for stealth gear are fairly limited, with plenty of choice for low price, almost none for middle price, and a few options at high price.  As such, I don't think you can make substantial improvements to the stealth setup for $500-700.

On the other hand, with open recording gear, there tends to be a lot more choice and a lot more middle-priced gear.   But before answering your question...

Where is the best place place to put the $$ where my ears will benefit most?

...I think it's important to ask yourself:  what sonic characteristics do you like and dislike with your current open-recording gear?  If you can point to specific sonic characteristics you like or dislike, you can then evaluate other gear based on those preferences.  Otherwise, it's simply an upgrade for upgrade's sake, and you could spend the cash on something else...like attending more live performances, other priorities, etc.

From a generic perspective, you'll achieve the most audible differences by changing your mics, as -- all else being equal, like sound source, location, configuration, etc. -- they have the single biggest impact on the sound you record.

[sunjan]

CA-14 o+c > 9100 > edirol R09hr
SP-C4's o,c,hc >little box > R09hr
Is the 661 that much smaller than the edirol/littlebox combo ?

IMHO, I don't think the 661 is at all as stealthable as the edirol + littlebox. Strictly from a stealth point of view, I'd prefer two smaller boxes that I can hide at different places when I pass security. But if you have balls, go to venues with sloppy security and think that you can get away with it, by all means, go for the 661.

For stealth, it's hard to beat CA-14>9100>R09HR in your budget range. There are discussions out there (use the search) which stealthy mics are considered an upgrade to CA-14. Audix 1280 capsules + Church cables, Nevaton MCE-400 omnis, Countryman B3 omnis, maybe AKG actives, but anything better and you'd have to pay a grand at least for a pair.

What is your proportion stealth/open? If you do a lot of open work, perhaps that's where you should put your money?

[Lonman]

80% of my taping is at small venues where I need to be stealth but in a loose way. If I had to really conceal my gear I would generally be in trouble. My gear is not is plain site when I enter and don't put mics on my glasses, shirt collar, back of empty chair in front of me or hat until lights go down. The open taping i do is mostly bluegrass outside or hotel large conference (ball room) room and bars where my kids play. Truthfully the bluegrass venues don;t have the best sound in general so shows can only sound so good. I also don't do much in post except remove some bass, accent the mids or highs a tad, and raise overall levels.
From above comments I am getting I need to maybe listen better/more and fine tune what type of sound I really do like the best and then match and equipment to try and meet those requirements. Also the better the microphones the better the shows will sound if indeed the sound is the sound i like. Sounds like it is time in the field practicing and listening going to as many shows and invironments I can and keep notes on what I use and how I hear about what I have taped.
 So using   CA-14 o+c > 9100 > edirol R09hr or SP-C4's o,c,hc >little box > R09hr substituting the the pmd 661 ambient mod deck in the R09s place would probably lower the noise floor but not be a night and day difference? Or is the change in pmd pre with mod going to be a big difference audibly? I think already we have concluded that adding better mics, although they may not be in my price range, could benefit if they were contributing something my others don't to the overall sound quality I want to hear. So I guess my only question left is if  I substitue a pmd 661 oade mod for the R09hr will I notice any difference all things equal ? Probably lower the noise floor when using high gain but anything else?

[su6oxone]

So I guess my only question left is if  I substitue a pmd 661 oade mod for the R09hr will I notice any difference all things equal ? Probably lower the noise floor when using high gain but anything else?

Probably not a big difference, although one can never discount the difference you hear because you anticipate, want, or expect to hear a difference (aka a placebo effect).  The main reason to use a 661 is if you want to stealth phantom powered mics, but even so, I agree with Sunjan above that it's easier to stealth two smaller boxes (eg. naiant littlebox + R-09HR) than the 661, which due to it's form factor is a bit bulkier and more difficult to stealth than two smaller boxes.  I do stealth a 661 on occasion but I don't think it's ideal for that application really. 

[Church-Audio]

I am on the last leg of recording equipment needs and then off I go. ? is what is the best benefit at this point...better stealth ( i consider ca-14s stealth) or the addition of a stand alone deck moded for my needs. This is where I am at:
CA-14 o+c > 9100 > edirol R09hr
SP-C4's o,c,hc >little box > R09hr
mini 12v SP BB
mics cables; darktrain, nickspicks
Since i do mostly club taping acoustic/electric folk and jazz (no loud stuff)  where is the best benefit now: ugrade my stealth mics and strap the edirol to the littlebox and use that for running phantom to whatever the upgrade mics will be or ...think about a pmd 661 ambient mod  to use as a stand alone with whatever upgraded mics will be.  I haven;t used the littlebox in a club setting and it is almost too big but probably do-able....then upgraded mics the only expense ? Is the 661 that much smaller than the edirol/littlebox combo ?  Where is the best place place to put the $$ where my ears will benefit most? 500-700 greenback limit.

The TS has been a great resource and really I appreciate all the great suggestions thus far. Field testing learning curve next!

If you are really concerned about size get my ugly preamp and a pair of cafs mics or a pair of ca-1's they can not be detected unless you get a cavity search...
For the kind of music you are recording the cafs mics would be very good.

Chris

[Lonman]

Chris I love the rig you made me and use it all the time. I was thinking more in terms of the recorder size issue. To supply phantom power to mics that need it I thought the pmd 661 would allow me to just have it and mics = smaller foot print. I purchased a pair of nevaton mce-400's and figured when is didn't need to be real stealth (i consider the ca-14s 9100 r09hr stealth) I would then have the 661 and nevatons going since it still need to be low pro.but not stealth. When I am open taping I have other options that I am happy with and use the littlebox for phamtom or low power mics since it has both capabilities. Make sense   I have heard great things about the cafs, ca1s the options you mentioned and certainly may find uses for them too. I guess I like a little of everybodies stuff for variety. Same as my playing out. I like to sit in on harmonica, mandolin or guitar depending on the what the music is and who I am joining in with. It probably is not the most cost affective approach buying and trying and then having to sell but recording equipment at my level is very affordable compared to the $$ for instruments we spend on guitars and mandolins that's for sure.

[Lonman]

Great comments, thanks all. Point well taken about the two boxes and in separate places. My venues are low security or no security but with the littlbox and ro9 I don;t even need a bag ( maybe crown royal bag) so cargo pants or jacket pockets are doable. I will process all the comments and then see where I land after that.
I bid you goodnite!