Topic: Source Comp, aka: The Subjectivity of Sound

[cd2go]

Hey all,

Hoping to enlist some ears and see which source (A or B) most prefer. 24/48, peak normalized, and each set of mics at the same position/angle. They are completely different sources. 

The song is "This Could All Be Yours" by Guster:

http://soundcloud.com/cd2go/sets/guster/

thanks!
-james

[stantheman1976]

I like A better. I can't describe the frequencies like other people here can but it sounds more open and fuller to me than B. The higher end is more present than B but not overpowering.

[ero3030]

like A better.  tighter, cleaner.  mids in the B source mud it up just a little, but still sounds good.  ed

[doodee]

My old haggard ears prefer A. I like the openness and crispness of that one.

[JonG]

A's cleaner, bass is punchy, mids are a little recessed but aren't muddy, and treble is nice and clear.

B's a little honky, but vocals are a little more forward because of that, and possibly also because there's less reverb than in A.

Overall, I prefer A.

Edit-
B's also a little biased toward the right channel, but that's beside the point.

[acidjack]

A sounds to me like a set of hypers or cards in a pretty tight pattern - pretty bright, not a lot of bass, but more clarity on the vocals and more detail and crispness on the high end. 

B seems like it could be a pair of omnis or cards in a wide pattern.  More "natural" sounding, much better bass response, but less direct sound.  I suspect B is what most TS.com people will prefer because of the better low end and greater "smoothness" of it.

It's hard to pick what's "better" because they are so different.  If they were my recordings I'd probably blend them together about 60-75% A with the rest B to pick up the low end and fill the sound out a bit.

If I had to just have one, I guess I'd pick A, though. Although turning B up a little louder on my headphones, I feel like maybe B is a tad less fatiguing than that somewhat harsh high end of A.

I might hazard the guess that B is a more expensive set of mics, but that's a somewhat wild guess.

[newplanet7]

A sounds to me like a set of hypers or cards in a pretty tight pattern - pretty bright, not a lot of bass, but more clarity on the vocals and more detail and crispness on the high end. 

B seems like it could be a pair of omnis or cards in a wide pattern.  More "natural" sounding, much better bass response, but less direct sound.  I suspect B is what most TS.com people will prefer because of the better low end and greater "smoothness" of it.

Spot on and I chose B

[acidjack]

...OK, so what mics were they?

[fandelive]

A. I just feel more like being there than B.

[cd2go]

A: Tascam DR-07MK II, internal mics @ 90*
B: DPA 4022 > Oade WMOD Marantz PMD-661

Thanks guys for the feedback, I just thought it would be fun to compare such contrasting sources. The 661 is going back to Doug to be switched to a concert mod, as I've been feeling that the warm mod is making the low end a tad too murky and the highs not as detailed as I'd like. I want to hear the mics more, with less color.

So am I going to ditch the DPAs for internal mics  ? Not quite, but it's interesting that the internal mics on many of these "all-in-one" decks, while not ideal, certainly can make for a decent pull when in a pinch or low-pro situation, and should not be written off completely.

-james

[acidjack]

A: Tascam DR-07MK II, internal mics @ 90*
B: DPA 4022 > Oade WMOD Marantz PMD-661

Thanks guys for the feedback, I just thought it would be fun to compare such contrasting sources. The 661 is going back to Doug to be switched to a concert mod, as I've been feeling that the warm mod is making the low end a tad too murky and the highs not as detailed as I'd like. I want to hear the mics more, with less color.

So am I going to ditch the DPAs for internal mics  ? Not quite, but it's interesting that the internal mics on many of these "all-in-one" decks, while not ideal, certainly can make for a decent pull when in a pinch or low-pro situation, and should not be written off completely.

-james

Nicely done!  That is an impressive showing from those internal mics.  I do think you are right about the mods on your 661 and the DPAs.  They are very expensive mics, and they are also I think correspondingly more sensitive to what pre is powering them.  I think my concert mod on the R-44 (and the same one I've used on a 660) makes a nice improvement to the high end; there is an even larger noticeable jump in performance when I run the Oade 248 behind them or an SD USBpre2 (but particularly the Oade, which is actually intended to color the sound somewhat). 

Also, I find that the accuracy of the DPAs can also be their curse; they pick up nasty room frequencies that sometimes need some EQing.  The internal mics pull already is pretty thin in the low end, and therefore avoids that problem.

Anyway, a really nice comp, thank you.

[Gutbucket]

When this was 1st posted I listened and prefered 'B', but not primarily because it sounds better as it is (although for me it does to a limited extent), but because with some quick and dirty eq in foobar I could get 'B' sounding far closer to what I find desirable than I could with 'A'.  I didn't bother posting my preference at the time but am doing so now not because my preference matters, but rather because the reason for that preference and what I take away from this is, I think, likely to be somewhat different than many others-

For me, the important concept to take away from this is that barring gross distortion, the frequency balance of a recording is the most important aspect.

A recording's frequency balance is more important than stereo imaging, dynamics, noise floor, and most everything except gross distortions or dropouts.  In these raw recordings, the rolled off bass response of 'A' somewhat compensates for the boomy recording situation, where the flatter response of 'B' does not.  Because frequency balance trumps everything else, that raw recording sounds somewhat more balanced. Yet if I take just a few minutes to compensate for the frequency balance problems in the recordings using EQ (in a far more controllable and fine tuned way), 'B' very quickly shows it's superiority and flexibility in producing a far better end result to my ears.

Which is best depends on a number of things: how you work, what you expect of your end result and what you are willing to do to get there.  If you just want to record and not mess with the files again, and doing so inexpensively is more important than trying for the best possible result, then 'A' may be preferable.  If you want to make the best sounding recording possible and are willing to make the effort to correct frequency balance issues, which in my experience can always be improved in any raw recording regardless of either the gear used or my initial assesment of the raw recording's sound quality, 'B' might be preferable.

In my case 'better' is not so much about which raw recording sounds most acceptable as is, but which can get me the closest to what I'm looking for and what motivates me to do this stuff in the first place- that near magical subjective state where I forget about gear and technical issues and simply desolve into the experience of music.

[capnhook]

For me, the important concept to take away from this is that barring gross distortion, the frequency balance of a recording is the most important aspect.

In my case 'better' is not so much about which raw recording sounds most acceptable as is, but which can get me the closest to what I'm looking for and what motivates me to do this stuff in the first place- that near magical subjective state where I forget about gear and technical issues and simply desolve into the experience of music.[/b]

Yeahyouright, Lee......thanks.  Thought I was the only one.......