Topic: Frustrating Issue with CA-14 Cards - Need Feedback

[cashandkerouac]

I have a pair of Church Audio CA-14 cards, and when using them in a stealth or open taping situation the right mic consistently pulls levels that are between 3-6db hotter than the left.  I've emailed Chris a couple of times about this issue and he is adamant that they are matched.  I'm not disputing Chris's claim, but my results in the field are identical every time I use the mics. 

If I put both mics right next to each other and hold them directly up to a sound source the levels from the left and right mics are very close.  However, as I move the mics away from the sound source the levels on the left mic start to drop (as compared to the right).  In a real concert setting the difference is extremely noticable (anywhere from 3-6db).  In order to get balanced levels on the left and right channels I have to orient the right mic to be extremely off axis compared to the left.  If I use a symetrical orientation of the mics to the sound source I then have to pan the stereo mix significantly to the left in post production in order to balance the left and right channels.  Then, I have to boost the stereo mix which adds hiss to the recording.  Either way it's frustrating, and I'm strongly considering to just sell them.       

I have a friend who uses CA-11s and his mics behave just as one would expect from a matched set.  Mine behave like a very unmatched set (except when held directly against the sound source), but Chris swears that they are matched.  Any idea what could be going on?

thanks in advance for the feedback. 



   

[Will_S]

Perhaps the vents on one of the capsules are obstructed, changing its directional pattern.   Thus if both are dead on axis to the sound source, same sensitivity, but in a live taping environment with plenty of reverberant sound the less directional mic will pick up more signal.

[BlindGuyEars]

I'm considering either 11's or 14's so I'll be interested to hear how this gets resolved.  About 14's, I can't find out any details on the Church Audio site. Yes there's a picture of the 11's, but no specs, dimensions, weight, etc.

[Patrick]

What else are you running for a rig?  Don't rule out those components in your troubleshooting!

[F.O.Bean]

Hmmm, no clue. I just ran my CA14 cards for the 2nd time Sunday, and my levels were pretty damn close. I wonder if anyone else is having that problem

[cashandkerouac]

What else are you running for a rig?  Don't rule out those components in your troubleshooting!

i'm running the CA-14s with a CA-9100 and a Sony M-10.  i also use the Sony M-10 with an Aerco MP-2 and Sennheiser MKH8040s with no issue, so it's not the M-10.  i suppose there's a possibility that the issue is with the CA-9100 (i've never used the CA-14s with a different pre-amp and never used the CA-9100 with different mics) but my gut tells me it's the mics.  i really don't have the tools or technical expertise to solve this on my own, and the response from Church Audio was less than enthusiastic, so i figured i'd post a message and see what kind of suggestions i got.   

[Will_S]

The preamp should not cause the relative response of the two mics to vary with distance from the source.  A difference in directionality between the two capsules is the only possibility that makes sense to me (of course I could be missing something).  Maybe they started out different, maybe something got in them to obstruct the vents on one capsule which will change its directionality.

Of course, an easy way to see if the 9100 is the problem is to run the mics off the M10's plug in power and see if you still get the same change in relative sensitivity with distance.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Of course, an easy way to see if the 9100 is the problem is to run the mics off the M10's plug in power and see if you still get the same change in relative sensitivity with distance.

Yup.  Or, if the recorded source will be too loud for plug-in power, borrow another pre or battery box from someone who's willing to lend you one and test the mics through that.

[adrianf74]

Are you standing dead centre at the venue or off to one side?  Sometimes mixes can be panned to one channel "slightly" more than another at the source, other times it could be your location, and other times it could be how the mics are being mounted.

At one point, I thought my mics were unbalanced by about +/- 1.5dB, however, I just did some recordings this weekend where both mics were mounted about 12 inches apart on a stand at 10 feet and could confirm they were close.

If worse comes to worse, tell Chris you'll send them back to him and have him look them over - if there's an issue with them, he should fix them and send them back at his expense.  If there is still NO issue found, then you should offer to pay the return shipping.  Chris is a pretty good guy - who knows, maybe the mics got damaged in the mail?  I dunno but what you're describing seems a little whack to me.

[acidjack]

If it has that effect when you test it at home, sounds like a dirty connection somewhere to me.  I had this happen with a pair of mics that weren't Church Audio and had to have a contact inside of it cleaned.  Could also be a short of some kind.

[cashandkerouac]

If worse comes to worse, tell Chris you'll send them back to him and have him look them over - if there's an issue with them, he should fix them and send them back at his expense.  If there is still NO issue found, then you should offer to pay the return shipping.  Chris is a pretty good guy - who knows, maybe the mics got damaged in the mail?  I dunno but what you're describing seems a little whack to me.

yes, it seems pretty whack to me as well... but the field results are the same no matter where i am in any venue (dead center, off center, etc.).  i know from reading other posts about Church Audio that Chris is a good guy and wants his customers to be happy.  in my case, however, i have not had this same experience with Chris.  i get the clear impression that he thinks it's "user error" and doesn't want to be bothered.  the CA-14s are the only mics with which i have ever had trouble, and "user error" is not the issue here.  i wish Chris were more open to the possibility that there is a real problem, but that is not the case and i'm not going to continue to bang my head against brick wall.  i will likely sell the CA-9100 and eat the loss for the CA-14s.  i would not feel right about selling the CA-14s to someone else.   

[flipp]

Chris has said the non-removable screens are part of the mic. Is it possible one of the screens has started to disintegrate and small pieces may be blocking some of the rear vents? Could explain why it sounds good when pointed directly at the source but has lower levels when off-axis.

just reread the thread and see WIll already mentioned this possibility

[printguy]

If worse comes to worse, tell Chris you'll send them back to him and have him look them over - if there's an issue with them, he should fix them and send them back at his expense.  If there is still NO issue found, then you should offer to pay the return shipping.  Chris is a pretty good guy - who knows, maybe the mics got damaged in the mail?  I dunno but what you're describing seems a little whack to me.

yes, it seems pretty whack to me as well... but the field results are the same no matter where i am in any venue (dead center, off center, etc.).  i know from reading other posts about Church Audio that Chris is a good guy and wants his customers to be happy.  in my case, however, i have not had this same experience with Chris.  i get the clear impression that he thinks it's "user error" and doesn't want to be bothered.  the CA-14s are the only mics with which i have ever had trouble, and "user error" is not the issue here.  i wish Chris were more open to the possibility that there is a real problem, but that is not the case and i'm not going to continue to bang my head against brick wall.  i will likely sell the CA-9100 and eat the loss for the CA-14s.  i would not feel right about selling the CA-14s to someone else.

Why not send the mics back to Chris and have him check them out? I'm sure that if there is a real problem he will fix it, and cover the return shipping.

[hi and lo]

Not to make any accusations, but I would really like see all microphone manufacturers provide more detail into their specific process for matching capsules. Matching is a challenging process that requires some expensive equipment to perform correctly and the end-result should always be frequency response charts provided to the customer.

I have my doubts that 'matched' capsules is more than just a sales pitch and that the devil is in the details. Any claims to the contrary without providing a the necessary charts (or being Schoeps) is suspect imo.

Edit to add: If you suspect a problem with your equipment, the manufacture should always be willing to accept the fact that their may be a product defect regardless of the QA methodology employed. It's customer service 101 where it's better to say "Sure, we'd be happy to take a look" rather than "Nope.. no way.. that couldn't possibly be the problem."