Topic: recording in a small rock club with very low ceiling

[nicegrin]

Hi all!

What would the best...

polar pattern,
mic configuration,
mic placement
and location in venue

be to use in a very small rock club with extremely low ceiling (4-5 meters!).
Normally sound is very loud and lacks "room" there. 
I Just don´t seem to be able to pull a good recording there so need some suggestions...

Thanks!
N

[sunjan]

Coming from nicegrin, this sounds like Debaser Slussen, judging by your description? 
Is open stand an option, or just st**lth?

I was thinking stagelip/on stage mics, but since we're talking Swedish venues that might be a non-starter. 

(BTW nicegrin, my tinybox is on the way. I'll pass back the PS-2 next time we meet.)

[nicegrin]

No stage mounting possible I´m afraid... :p

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Isn't the solution obvious?  Tear the roof off!

You have not mentioned the specific gear that is available to you, and what you have tried.  Specific details, please.

[nicegrin]

The gear is in my sig!

[Brian Skalinder]

What polar patterns / configs / locations have you tried in this room, and what have you not liked about the results?

[nicegrin]

Normally results seem flat, hollow and lacking stereo image. More often then not the PA itself sounds distorted or atleast very loud and bass heavy...

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The gear is in my sig!

I turn sigs and avatars off.  I don't want to see that crud on every post.

A list of gear isn't specific, especially a large list.  You are asking for us to spend our time helping you, but you are not even making an effort.  You haven't even told us the mic patterns you have tried and the config.

[Brian Skalinder]

Eleven is spot on -- without specific details of the different options you've tried and what you thought of each result, it's hard to make appropriate recommendations.

If I had to guess, I'd guess this is one of those rooms that never sounds good, no matter what -- whether it's the room, PA, sound engineer, etc.  In which case, consider trying something completely different:  maybe record at the stack?  It won't be stereo, but you indicate you're not getting much of a stereo image, anyway, and at least the stack recording might remove some of the reverberant sound contributing to a bass-heavy (and possibly distorted) recording.  Worth a try, I think.

[SmokinJoe]

There is a local club (The Stone Church) which has low ceilings.  Probably 3m (9-10') high.  Hundreds of tapes have been made there, and almost everyone has settled on a common setup.  I've tried a few different things, but always come back to that.  It works well here anyway, and that might translate to you.  Down the center of the room is an overhead  steel I-beam, and we clamp to that.  That's one advantage to a low ceiling... you can reach it standing on a chair.

With T-bar's, apparatus, etc, the average set of mics are probably 18" (~50cm) below the ceiling surface, which means "half way between the ceiling and the top of people's heads".  We are probably 12' from stage.  If you put your mics at 90* DIN, the mics are pretty much pointing at the stacks... a little closer than the usual sweet spot.  If you move back from there, it get's chatty and boomy really fast.  People use cards or hypers mostly to reduce chatter and room reflection.  If it's a nice quiet sit down show, occasionally someone will use subcards or (rarely) omnis, but cards & hypers are the norm.  The PA is mono, or at least stereo mixed up the middle.  The best way to get any sense of separation is to run DIN'ish - NOS'ish, at least you get some time separation.

No magic bullet, just the basics.

[acidjack]

Joe's description is spot on for what I've tried.  I'd probably go with hypers from the sweet spot if you can't go with the best option of onstage.  Or, depending how the stacks are configured and mixed, you could always stack tape with the mk4s or the Nevatons.  The hypers will have the advantage of picking up the least reflections, of course. 

In the clubs I deal with like this, I usually go with hypers.

[gratefulphish]

There is a local club (The Stone Church) which has low ceilings.  Probably 3m (9-10') high.  Hundreds of tapes have been made there, and almost everyone has settled on a common setup.  I've tried a few different things, but always come back to that.  It works well here anyway, and that might translate to you.  Down the center of the room is an overhead  steel I-beam, and we clamp to that.  That's one advantage to a low ceiling... you can reach it standing on a chair.

With T-bar's, apparatus, etc, the average set of mics are probably 18" (~50cm) below the ceiling surface, which means "half way between the ceiling and the top of people's heads".  We are probably 12' from stage.  If you put your mics at 90* DIN, the mics are pretty much pointing at the stacks... a little closer than the usual sweet spot.  If you move back from there, it get's chatty and boomy really fast.  People use cards or hypers mostly to reduce chatter and room reflection.  If it's a nice quiet sit down show, occasionally someone will use subcards or (rarely) omnis, but cards & hypers are the norm.  The PA is mono, or at least stereo mixed up the middle.  The best way to get any sense of separation is to run DIN'ish - NOS'ish, at least you get some time separation.

No magic bullet, just the basics.

I fully endorse this suggestion.  In low ceiling rooms, particularly one that you describe as being bassy and distorted to begin with, running hyper from a clamp on the ceiling or a room post that you can bungee or clamp to will both get you a cleaner sound, as well as reducing some of the bass reverberation that a low ceiling can cause.