Topic: Sony M-10 vs. Roland R-05 / R-09HR - what better? (again)

[Dave_Scream]

Hello.
I read threads
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143176.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=162779.0

But still cant make choice what recorder is better and why.
What advantages/disadvantages have Sony M-10 in compare with Roland R-05 / R-09HR ?
+- Sony have 34% better battery life: 24 hours or 19 hours at high quality  (R-05 have  16 hours - well it is fully enought I think)

- Sony dont have pre record auto-analyze-and-find optimal mic gain function
R-05 have this function:
This feature offers a quick way to adjust input levels before recording,
which simplifies the process for first-timers. Input levels can be adjusted
automatically using simple button operations. This allows beginners to
make high-quality recordings even if unfamiliar with recording techniques

- Sony can't charge from USB (I want to use Sony M-10 also at home with my stationary computer as high quality mic. preamp for my noisy soundblaster soundcard)
+ Sony have line-out for my soundblaster line-in  (R-05 have only phones output - should I worry about it?)

- Sony cant record at 88.2kHz sample rate (44.1 * 2)

+ Sony can record also in AAC-Low-Coplexity and WMA formats (R-05 only WAV and MP3)

- Sony have Real time clock bug

- Sony price is higher

? Sony have input impendance 22kOhm   Roland R-05 have 7; 5 and 8 kOhms.   So Roland is more sensitive or what that parameter says?

so many disadvantages. But what advantages Sony have in compare with Roland R-05/R-09HR?

[yates7592]

I went through the same thinking just recently. I previously owned an R-09HR and it was a great machine. Of course you can't buy these new anymore. I also owned an R-05 for a short while. I used it once and found out it does not take a hot input signal like the R-09HR. I sold that straight away. I now run an M10 and this is the best in my view. It is only slightly more expensive than the R-05 in the UK. If you want to record loud shows, don't get an R-05 in my opinion, if you don't record loud shows, then R-05 will be fine.

[Dave_Scream]

okay. Today I bought:

Sony M-10  for 219$ + 60$ for shipping = 278$
Soundprofessionals MS-TFB-2 + Windscreens for 156$ both + 19$ for shipping = 175$

Total 453$

I worry about some noise threads here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=119668.0

[earmonger]

A couple of things:

You reversed the recording formats. It's the Sony that only does .wav and .mp3. Which, really, are all you need. The R-05 does the others.

There is no realtime clock bug. If you let the PCM-M10 sit on the shelf without batteries for a long time, the little internal rechargeable battery that runs the clock also runs down. As long as the PCM-M10 is charged, the clock keeps working.

Please tell the forum how the MS-TFB-2 work with ambient sounds.

[F.O.Bean]

I think the Sony M10 is hands down the winner. MANY OF US went from super expensive recorders ala the Sound Devices 702/722/744/788 and sold those off and now run Sony M10s. I am getting a third white one later this year for SBD patches. It can take a very hot signal/level, and if the show is quiet, you can run mics>battery box/preamp>Sony M10 MIC-IN and still get a very HQ sound. The M10s preamps are better than any handheld recorder ive ever heard

[_tunic_]

[...] I also owned an R-05 for a short while. I used it once and found out it does not take a hot input signal like the R-09HR. I sold that straight away. [...]

Hello,

hope you don't mind that I jump onto this thread. I'm currently still using a Rockboxed iRiver H320, but after 6 years or so of great service it's in need of replacement. I assume it's a hardware issue, during playback the display starts flickering. So now I'm considering to buy a Roland R-05, which I may be able to get cheap (hopefully under 100 Euros, it should still be new though). Could anyone tell me more about the issues with the hot input signal? Is that occurring with both the internal and external mics? Would it also be an issue when a pre-amp is used? I would be using CA-11 Omni's with the CA-9100 pre-amp. And are there any other drawbacks for this recorder?
The Sony is still tempting, and retail prices are similar to the Roland nowadays (both around the 200 Euros in the Netherlands), so if the mentioned deal somehow doesn't fall through, I might reconsider it.


thanks,
Jan-Willem

[yates7592]

I can't say for the internal mics, I never used them. But using external mics and if you tape loud amplified rock music I would steer clear of the R-05. I only used it twice with DPA 4061's - once on a fairly quiet show going line in with a simple battery box at level 40 (unity or thereabouts) - my peaks were -5. Next gig was a bit louder and I clipped several times using the same settings (I probably should have backed off the gain). I don't think a preamp would be a good idea, inless the gain is set to zero for loud shows. The 'line-in' on the R-05 has a rated nominal input level of about -7dBu, the M10 is more like +8dBu (i.e. it can take a much hotter signal). For comparison I think the old R-09HR was like +2dBu, so the R-05 is way off that even.

[dallman]

I can't say for the internal mics, I never used them. But using external mics and if you tape loud amplified rock music I would steer clear of the R-05. I only used it twice with DPA 4061's - once on a fairly quiet show going line in with a simple battery box at level 40 (unity or thereabouts) - my peaks were -5. Next gig was a bit louder and I clipped several times using the same settings (I probably should have backed off the gain). I don't think a preamp would be a good idea, inless the gain is set to zero for loud shows. The 'line-in' on the R-05 has a rated nominal input level of about -7dBu, the M10 is more like +8dBu (i.e. it can take a much hotter signal). For comparison I think the old R-09HR was like +2dBu, so the R-05 is way off that even.

I have never had any clipping issues with the R-05. I use either the CA UGLY pre or the Naiant Tinybox, and I would never really consider using the deck without a small pre although I guess you could. I really like both preamps for applications where I need everything to be small. My mics are Church CA11, Church CAFS, or AT853. With the AT 853's I do have to turn the CA Ugly preamp down from nearly full gain to about half, and I have yet to use the AT853's with the Tinybox which for me is much newer. With the 2 sets of Church mics I have been in ear splitting shows with no issues, never close to clipping. In addition, if I use the deck with p48 mics, I have only gone through a Sound Devices USB Pre, I have not tried the Naiant Tinybox in that configuration yet, but I have even more flexibility so I have never experienced anything near clipping or the issues above. I go line in always to the R-05.
I have found the R-05 to be a perfect deck for all of the applications you might want a small deck for. Great build, full size non finicky SD cards, easy to read and handle, easy locking record levels, nicely balanced right and left channels. The biggest issue I have had with the deck is that the name Roland rubbed off on the front fairly quickly. The m-10 is a fine deck too, but like horse racing not my horse of choice.