Topic: Questions re JB3 and UA5

[longtooth devil]

OK I've lurked and read enough to know that I don't know much about taping   but I am not discouraged.

I'm hoping to build some skills so I can tape some of the Hank III tour. I'm thinking about buying a NJB3 (I've read the good and bad, and understand about half of it) and need some clarification ...

I assume that you shouldn't just plug the NJB3 into the board and let it rip. I also assume you shouldn't just set up a mic, plug in and go either.  I've read the UA-5 suggested, but I'm not exactly sure what that thing does.  Is it a preamp to power mics? Does it allow fine tuning of the audio signal as you record? Do I really need it?

I want to make some good recordings (and I'm willing to practice) I already have a Sharp MD and possibily also have access to a Sony Porta DAT that I could use.

Trying to keep it simple as possible.

thanks (BTW this is my first post, this board kicks ass!)
 

[Brian Skalinder]

I assume that you shouldn't just plug the NJB3 into the board and let it rip.

Odds are, the analog signal from the SBD will be too hot for the JB3s analog inputs and will cause serious distortion and result in a useless recording.

I also assume you shouldn't just set up a mic, plug in and go either.

You could do this, but depending on the mic you use it may or may not require phantom power.  Also, note the analog input and ADC in the JB3 aren't all that good.

I've read the UA-5 suggested, but I'm not exactly sure what that thing does.

Per the original Archival Info thread in which you posted, the UA5 provides:

[1] phantom power to microphones
[2] variable gain
[3] quality analog to digital conversion

You don't "need" it, necessarily - the JB3 will basically do both [2] and [3], albeit poorly in comparison.

[longtooth devil]

Does "poorly" mean "don't bother if you're looking for quality?"

Also, .... ADC ...

I can't afford to buy a bunch of gear right now, so if it starts getting to be too much I may try to use the PortaDAT (though I have had bad experiences with DAT tapes).


sorry to be such a newbie, but there's really just no way around it


thanks much

[F.O.Bean]

I assume that you shouldn't just plug the NJB3 into the board and let it rip.

Odds are, the analog signal from the SBD will be too hot for the JB3s analog inputs and will cause serious distortion and result in a useless recording.

I also assume you shouldn't just set up a mic, plug in and go either.

You could do this, but depending on the mic you use it may or may not require phantom power.  Also, note the analog input and ADC in the JB3 aren't all that good.

I've read the UA-5 suggested, but I'm not exactly sure what that thing does.

Per the original Archival Info thread in which you posted, the UA5 provides:

[1] phantom power to microphones
[2] variable gain
[3] quality analog to digital conversion

You don't "need" it, necessarily - the JB3 will basically do both [2] and [3], albeit poorly in comparison.

VERY poorly

[Brian Skalinder]

Does "poorly" mean "don't bother if you're looking for quality?"

Depends on your standards for quality.  IMO, I wouldn't bother.

Also, .... ADC ...

Check the Archival Info newbie thread in which you originally posted:

[4]  analog-to-digital converter (ADC)
The ADC translates into the digital domain (0s and 1s) the analog signal coming from our powered microphones and through our gain stage.  Once the signal has been translated from analog to digital, then all we have to do is store those 0s and 1s somewhere.

I can't afford to buy a bunch of gear right now, so if it starts getting to be too much I may try to use the PortaDAT (though I have had bad experiences with DAT tapes).

I'm not familiar with the PortaDAT, though you may be able to run mics > power source > PortaDAT with good results. (You probably don't want to run mics > power source>  JB3 because of the JB3's poor quality gain stage and ADC.)

sorry to be such a newbie, but there's really just no way around it

Don't apologize for being a newbie - we all started there at one point or another.

[dklein]

I plug my JB3 into several soundboards quite regularly - no problem.  I've taken matrix out, monitor, aux and send outputs.  All cool.  Usually using between 0-9dB of JB3 analog gain thru line-in.

also...I think the analog input on the JB3 is an acceptable starting point.  I'm of the opinion that it's better to get out early and learn with whatever you can put together.  Upgrading is a blast and if you start out with a bigger rig, cash ultimately limits your moves and you don't necessarily get as good a feel for what you're doing.

Main considerations for running analog into a JB3 is a mic with enough output to eliminate the need for lots of noisy analog gain.  If you're recording rock shows (and I use that term loosely), I'd suggest something with a sensitivity rating of at least 15mV/Pa (or rated the other way, -36 dB or more, meaning -35, -34 etc.)   Otherwise, a little pre-amp can bring it up to line level.

david

p.s. the PortaDAT is an older model by HHB  - picture here http://www.ljudelektronik.se/produkter_bilder/hhb/hhb%20portadat%20pdr1000tc.htm

[Brian Skalinder]

Thanks for the correction, David - glad to hear you've been able to run SBD > JB3 without problems.  And after engaging my brain momentarily - something I neglected to do earlier - I'm inclined to agree with you: get out there and give it a go with what you have available.

[dklein]

ahhh....everything is back in balance now.  It felt odd to disagree with you Brian - I can't tell you how many of your posts read like my own thoughts!  

[Chanher]

I decided to simply start with a beginner MD rig.  I still have it after a couple years and now I know I'm ready to upgrade.

Soundprofessionals is a good place to start.  I still have these for my MD setup:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&item=SP-CMC-2&type=store

used with this:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=310&item=SP-SPSB-1&type=store

Those mics will work fine as well their other similiar mics. Now the Battery Box, or Slim Battery module as they call it, is used to power your microphones with simply a 9volt battery (lasts about a year).  If the situation you are recording is quite  loud (i.e. a standard rock concert) it will allow you to use the line in if your MD recorder which will sound better.  It also will give your mics a little more dynamic range. This is not absolutely necessary though.

Getting the music onto your computer to be burned to CD (if that's what you want to do) is another story.  You will have to spend more money to get a digital conversion (also will sound better) but you can do analog as long as you're happy with the results.  If you have any more questions just ask.

[drumminj]

I assume that you shouldn't just plug the NJB3 into the board and let it rip.

Odds are, the analog signal from the SBD will be too hot for the JB3s analog inputs and will cause serious distortion and result in a useless recording.

Like David, I've had no problems recording directly off the board either.  You definitely do have to be careful about getting too hot a signal (but for clipping purposes, not brickwalling).  I started out going the straight analog route and got some pretty great recordings.  Even though I have a UA-5 now, I wouldn't hesitate to go direct SBD->JB3.

J

[longtooth devil]

Getting the music onto your computer to be burned to CD (if that's what you want to do) is another story.  You will have to spend more money to get a digital conversion (also will sound better) but you can do analog as long as you're happy with the results.  If you have any more questions just ask.

I've been plugging my MD straight into my computer thru its mic jack and editing with Audacity. Are you saying it would sound better if I ran it through something before it got to my computer (Dell Inspiron 2650)?

Great stuff folks. Gives me some good info to consider.Thanks.

[Brian Skalinder]

The problem with running MD mic out > PC mic in is:  you're running the signal through a digital-to-analog (DAC) and then another analog-to-digital) ADC stage (the first ADC is when the MD converts the signal to digital for storing on the disc itself).  The DACs in portable MDs are generally noisy and not especially good, and the ADC in your PC's built-in is probably even worse.

Ideally, you'd want to run:

MD optical out > soundcard optical in

This keeps the transfer strictly digital, avoiding the noisy DAC and ADC stages in your MD and PC.  Of course, this costs more money as you'll need an MD with optical output (odds are yours doesn't have one) as well as a soundcard with optical input.

BUT, this is all ideal - better to record and listen even in a non-ideal situation, if you can't afford the extra gear.

[mgleason007]

Ideally, you'd want to run:

MD optical out > soundcard optical in

This keeps the transfer strictly digital, avoiding the noisy DAC and ADC stages in your MD and PC.  Of course, this costs more money as you'll need an MD with optical output (odds are yours doesn't have one) as well as a soundcard with optical input.

You'll only get this in a standalone deck designed for use with a stereo... or a REALLY old portable MD unit (I think Sony and Sharp each made one model with it).  So to do it properly like this costs quite a bit of money and is a hassle, whereas the JB3 is just a straight USB transfer.

[Cooker]

if you've already got a portadat, i would think a UA5 > JB3 would be a bit of a downgrade.