Topic: ISO Setup between ChurchAudio and Neumann ...

[widu99]

Hello everyone,
I have been recording concerts for quite some time (> 20 years). I started out with DAT and then moved on to a Sony PCM-M10.

For microphones, I initially used Coresound Binaurals and, for the last 5 years, Church Audio CA-11 Cardioids.

For a long time, I thought this setup was sufficient for me, but lately I've been thinking about taking the next step.

My dream setup would be Neumann KM184 > ZoomF3, but the Neumann mics are simply too expensive.
So I started looking for microphones that were cheaper than the Neumanns but better than the CA11 Cardioids.

The only ones I see in use often are the SoundProfessional Cardioids. But are they really that much better than the CA?

Then I came across the Rode NT5—but these are rarely used.

What is a good setup between Neumann and ChurchAudio?

Any tips help...

Thanks

[LeChti]

Hello,
I think this conversation should go in the "Microphones" topic.

Have you considered getting the Neumann 2nd hand ? I don't know elsewhere, but in France you can get a pair for ~800€ ($925)...I got mine for even slightly less.
Otherwise, the SoundPro cardioids SP-CMC-8 are very similar to the CA-14 in my opinion. If you have one, you don't need the other.
And finally, something "in between" might be the Line Audio CM4, which have a similar form factor as the Neumann KM184 but less expensive (around 200€ each, 400€ for the pair). You will find a couple of recording made with those (or the previous version CM3).

[rumbleseat]

Like you, I used the CA-11 for several years before jumping to a pair of AKG C480B CK61 cards.  Are they better mics?  Yes.  After EQing and processing a show, can I tell the difference between CA-11 and AKG shows?  Not really...  Maybe I'm not listening hard enough.  I've also had great results with Behringer C-2 mics ($50 for a pair!).  If you're not going to EQ your shows, then YES, the microphones make a big difference.

Here's my latest CA-11 > Deity PR-2 recording..
The New Mastersounds, Lincoln Theatre, Raleigh, NC
https://archive.org/details/nms2025-11-05

[morst]

https://www.lewitt-audio.com/microphones/lct-recording/lct-040-match-stereo-pair


$259


I worked with an audio professional a couple months ago, who has a bunch of microphones from this company and he recommended these

[Craig T]

Line Audio cm3, cm4
Beyer mc930, mc950

[al w.]

I hear the Vanguard SDCs are fantastic for the money

[todd e]

Like you, I used the CA-11 for several years before jumping to a pair of AKG C480B CK61 cards.  Are they better mics?  Yes.  After EQing and processing a show, can I tell the difference between CA-11 and AKG shows?  Not really...  Maybe I'm not listening hard enough.  I've also had great results with Behringer C-2 mics ($50 for a pair!).  If you're not going to EQ your shows, then YES, the microphones make a big difference.

Here's my latest CA-11 > Deity PR-2 recording..
The New Mastersounds, Lincoln Theatre, Raleigh, NC
https://archive.org/details/nms2025-11-05

sounds great!

[al w.]

This is a great deal: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=208706.0;topicseen

[robertmccabe]

You’re already in a really good place gear-wise, so it makes sense that you’ve hit that “what’s next?” phase. I’ve used (and heard a lot of) the CA-11s, and they punch way above their price. The jump from CA to Neumann is massive — but so is the price, unfortunately.

A few thoughts that might help:

Sound Professionals vs Church Audio
The SoundProfessional cardioids are generally a step up from the CA-11s, but it’s more of a refinement than a night-and-day difference. You’ll get a slightly cleaner top end and a bit better off-axis rejection, but it won’t feel like going from “prosumer” to “studio” level. More like polishing what you already have.

Rode NT5
The NT5s are actually very solid. They don’t show up as much in taper circles because they’re bulkier and harder to stealth, not because they sound bad. Sonically, they’re closer to true small-diaphragm condensers like the KM184s than your current mics. If you don’t need ultra-stealth, they’re worth serious consideration.

Really good “middle ground” mics to look at
If you want that in-between Neumann and ChurchAudio territory, these are often sweet spots:

Line Audio CM4 – probably the best bang-for-buck option right now

Oktava MK-012 (with cardioid caps) – very musical and natural sounding

Audio-Technica AT4021 or AT4041 – clean, reliable, great value used

sE Electronics sE7 – underrated and inexpensive for how good they sound

These are all noticeably more “real mic” sounding than CA-11s but far more affordable than KM184s.

Recorder pairing with Zoom F3
The F3 is a fantastic choice. Its 32-bit float paired with better mics is a very real upgrade path. You’d immediately hear the difference just from improved transient detail and stereo image.