Topic: Ever run mid-side at the back of an arena?

[Swampy]

Hey all. So, Im taping Phil & Friends at a college basketball gym/arena on Tuesday night and it had me thinking about section taping in arenas. Even though Ive been taping for 2.5 years, Ive really done one other big arena, Phish @ Hampton 2004). Is there anything that can be done to improve on hypers DINa in the section? My Hampton tape is pretty muddy... Maybe AB poined at the stacks, but you are gonna lose a lot of stereo image from that far back. Which got me thinking about mid/side. Would M/S work at the back of the arena? Would the figure8 channel just be mud? Im not really wanting to experiment too much without some feedback cuz Ive only gotten to tape GD members a handfulll of times... Has anyone tried M/S from the section of an arena? Any other tips for arena taping? THANKS!

[Kyle]

I recorded Phil there in spring 2001 (I think it was then) - the ts was all the way in the back on the left side in the bleachers. It was not so   good as you can imagine. I tried A/B pointed at the stacks and it sounds ok - I was not expecting much but it is listenable...

M/S might work well - you could 'dial in' the image (or what is left of it) in post - give it a go

My mics are still in Germany so I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow

[Swampy]

Yea, Im just wondering if the figure8 channel would be nothing but muddy back of the arena sound Good thing is that the section is on the floor this year according to my ticket... I'd be happy to borrow your V2 if you arnt gonna tape tomorrow Kyle

[Kyle]

Yea, Im just wondering if the figure8 channel would be nothing but muddy back of the arena sound Good thing is that the section is on the floor this year according to my ticket... I'd be happy to borrow your V2 if you arnt gonna tape tomorrow Kyle

Not quite sure what I am going to do. I 'might' call Coby and plead for the use of the TLM 103s - maybe - he is always very generous and I kinda feel bad asking...

Do you have a taper ticket? I do not - but I am sure I wuill bring the rest of the rig
I also have a friend who has Nak cm300s - might try that out thru the V2/ad2k......

I bet the ADKs would sound nice into the V2/AD2K

[Nick's Picks]

DO NOT RUN MS IN THE BACK OF A HOCKEY RINK!!!!!
unless you want to make some fancy sounding coasters.
yuk!

for example:  http://db.etree.org/shninfo_detail.php?shnid=13346
and I was only a couple of feet right of center. 
yuk!!!!

[rocksuitcase]

Alex,
do not try M-S in the back of the arena.  the S channel will be mostly noise.
M-S really works best about 10-40 feet from the stage.
With hypers, you could try a plain ol X-Y, reduce your stereo image a bit, but clean up the bass response by having the caps in such close proximity.
I think if they put you on axis with one stack, then do a stack A-B set up like you are talking about.  Sacrifice a bit of imaging again for more distinct mid range.
If it were me and I own a pair of hypers ( Beyer M201's) I would try X-Y if near the center, or AB if nearer the side.

[Nick's Picks]

imo, XY from a distance sort of sucks.  you get a big fat "phantom image' where all the sound comes from.  not much soundstage either.  I prefer spaced methods from the rear of the venue.  but thats me.

[dnsacks]

nick did you do the mid/side decoding live at the show or did you record the raw signals and decode in post?

I've had great luck recordingthe raw signals live and decoding in post (this allows one to dial in exactly what they want the mix to sound like in a controlled enviroment)  -- I'd think that recording from a poor location like this could be an ideal use of mid/side.  The figure 8 would indeed pick up almost nothing but noise, but the card would be pointing directly at the sound source.  Decoding the show at home after the show, one would likely use VERY little of the side signal in setting the final mix and would primarily be using the mid signal (card pointing straight at the music) thie side would simply supply the stereo cues and ambiance for the recording.

IMHO, you're in a crappy place to tape and should give m/s a try, you may be pleasently surprised.

[Swampy]

From Nicks txt:
recoded utilizing the mid-side setero technique.  Mid was suplied via hyper-cardioid signal,
side was standard figure of 8.  M-S matrixing handled by the V3 allowing for on-the-fly
adjustment of stereo width or forward signal strengh (evident in the first set as I was trying
to cut through the horrendous echo in the Fleet Center).

I was definitely planning on doing it in post... Anyone else have opinions? Thanks to everyone so far! Oh ya, does it really matter which channel is which when doing ms? as far as L/R goes? Still not sure what Im gonna do tonight, looks like it will be a gametime choice! My thought is that the fig8 channel will be mosty garbage...

Kyle, I do have a tapers ticket, so if you find mics and need help getting in just lemmie know. PM me if you want my cell #

[krebsy]

I think most software will expect M=L and S=R when you do the mix in post. And the S channel won't be garbage, it will be ambience!!     There should be lots of tapers there, right?  I say dooo eeet!

[rocksuitcase]

imo, XY from a distance sort of sucks.  you get a big fat "phantom image' where all the sound comes from.  not much soundstage either.  I prefer spaced methods from the rear of the venue.  but thats me.

This is why there is chocalate and vanilla, each likes his own flavor.

[todd e]

i ran that midside in hampton 03, from the section and it is awful.  its just not that heavy hitting fob tape that i love.

mk8+mk4 > vms02ib > ad1000

what a waste..