Topic: New rig suggestions

[matsa]

Hi!

I'm taping my vocal ensemble (to be considered a quiet source) using a Rode NT-4 and a MT. Sure it's hissy, but starting every recording with 10secs mic turned off gives me a nice 'noise-print' to filter out using Goldwave (2½ hours rehersal takes about 1,25 hours to noisewash). It's a two piece rig giving a nice result. So at the moment I'm quite happy, especially with the NT-4 suiting 4-5 voices really well (and giving the option of using balanced out as well as miniplug).

BUT

Since I might be spending a lot of time travelling by train to my new job I might buy a hd mp3-player to help pass the time and it got me thinking;
What if I bought an iRiver h120, wouldn't that render my MT obsolete? That would be a good thing, really! 
If I want to rid myself of the noisewashing buisness I'd need a preamp, preferably with optical out going into the iRiver.
Do I really need balanced cables to the adc? They hardly pick up any noise at all since they're just over 1 m long! That gives more options: another adc miniplug in and optical out, if they exist at all. Having souch an adc (not forced to balanced outputs) would open the possibility to choose another mic as well!

So what started as thinking of buying a mp3-player ended with me rethinking the whole rig. The rig must be compact, rugged enough to join us at the pub after rehersal and no more than three pieces including the mic!
In short:
1. Hd mp3-player needed. Really low pre-noise or optical/spdif in is a must.
2. If not 1 is ultra silent I'd need a preamp. Which? Must be battery powered and tiny.
3. Is there a mic better suiting my needs? Which? Does the new mic choise alter the coise of pre?
4. Price ranges: mp3 player <350$, preamp <300$, mic <450$

My own ignorant suggestions would be: RodeNT4 > AD-20 >(optical) > Iriver H120. A cheap alternative would be: Rodent-4 > SP-PREAMP > (analog) > Iriver. Considering the enormous hiss on the MT, even NT-4 > Iriver (+noisewash) could be an option.  But I'm a newbie, so feel free to criticize and suggest improvements.
Help us out here, please!

I know this question has been asked loads of times before, and I have really spent the entire weekend reading on TS but I simply can't do this on my own. Need more input, so please go ahead and suggest a new rig!

Cheers
/Svenster

[matsa]

Ok, I agree... Twas a biggie!

I'll break it down a bit:
Is the noise from the internal preamp in the iriver h120 noisier than that of the microtracker? Has anyone had the pleasure to compare?
(I'm trying to establish whether I need an external pre or not here.)

Thanks a lot!

/Svenster

[Brian Skalinder]

Is the noise from the internal preamp in the iriver h120 noisier than that of the microtracker? Has anyone had the pleasure to compare?
(I'm trying to establish whether I need an external pre or not here.)

I've not compared the MT2496 and H120s self-noise, but if you're recording quiet sources, the gain available in either recorder simply won't suffice, IMO - the designers / manufacturers must take too many shortcuts in producing such low-cost recorders.  I think at a minimum, you should go with an external preamp, and even better an external preamp and ADC.

4. Price ranges: mp3 player <350$, preamp <300$, mic <450$

If you're happy with the NT-4, I say keep it.  And you may remove the noise issues with the MicroTrack 2496 by running digital-in to the recorder.  That leaves you plenty of money to drop on an external preamp and ADC.  For very quiet sources, you'll want a preamp that has low self-noise.  With the budget above, I'd take the money available for the MP3 player ( $350) and preamp ($300) and pick up one of the Oade PLUS modded UA5s - either a Transparent PLUS or Warm PLUS (don't know of many Presence PLUS mods).  The Oade PLUS mods make these units very, very quiet even at high gain.  They're only available used these days, so keep an eye on the Yard Sale.  The only downside:  you need an external battery for the UA5, adding a 4th piece to the package.  But the li-ion batteries most people use are quite small, easy and fast to charge, pretty inexpensive, and provide long powering times.  All-in-all, I think this is the best "budget" option.  For listening to music, I'd then pick up a cheapo MP3 player.

Alternatively, you could take the complete budget above ($1,100), sell the MT2496 (but keep the CF card), and pick up an Oade Advanced Concert Modded Marantz 671.  Since you're recording quiet sources, you may wish to request the higher gain option.  And while that would leave no money available for an MP3 player, its convenience and quality is tough to beat as a package.

Edit to add:  The Oade Super MOD Tascam HD-P2 also falls in the same price range as the ACM 671.

[BJ]

i have a nice portable pre/ad for sale  its very small also, and can run off a 9v battery, comes with tons of extras, if you wanted to sell the mt and keep the cf as Brian suggested,  we could work out a deal on the whole rig listed...either way, but I think the mt would work great with that honestly

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=70630.0

would work great with the microtracker and the nt4's

[matsa]

Thanks a lot on the input!

I think at a minimum, you should go with an external preamp, and even better an external preamp and ADC.

Ok! Something small (pre only) would give me loads of more gain. Wouldn't be digital, though.

For very quiet sources, you'll want a preamp that has low self-noise.

Hmm, agreed. Whould a cheapish SP-pre suffice in our opinion? (CA e-mailed me earlier and I'm having a look at his stuff right now.)  I mean, if I could switch the sensitivity button on the MT to L or even M the noise would almost vanish! I'd have to build a new dongle (how great is that word!?  ), but I rather enjoy that anyway.

For listening to music, I'd then pick up a cheapo MP3 player.

Advice taken! The search has begun.

Thanks again!

[matsa]

i have a nice portable pre/ad for sale   [...]  would work great with the microtracker and the nt4's

Right! I have been looking at that one! I have no doubt that it'll work like a charm. I'll just quickly evaluate the 'mini-pre' option for a week or two.
Don't let me keep you from selling it while I make my mind up (could take ages ).

But thanks all the same, I promise to give it a good think and come back to you when ready.
/Svenster

[BJ]

i have a nice portable pre/ad for sale   [...]  would work great with the microtracker and the nt4's

Right! I have been looking at that one! I have no doubt that it'll work like a charm. I'll just quickly evaluate the 'mini-pre' option for a week or two.
Don't let me keep you from selling it while I make my mind up (could take ages ).

But thanks all the same, I promise to give it a good think and come back to you when ready.
/Svenster

take your time...im in no hurry to sell it...good luck on whatever you choose, there are tons of great pres available