Topic: Core Sound Binaurals not cutting it

[laptaper]

First of all - a HUGE outpouring of thanks to all of you who've helped me with my questions.  This group has been phenomenal in helping me figure out what mikes to get, setting up, accessories, etc.  You've been an invaluable resource; I just want you all to know that and that I really appreciate it.   

Well, as Twain said, no good deed goes unpunished.  I have yet another quandary.  I took my brand new Core Sound binaurals (the regular, not the high end) out for a spin last night.  I taped a jazz band in a small club, sitting right in front about ten feet from the stage.  The mikes were clipped to the visor of my baseball cap, pointing slightly upwards and at about a 60-70 degree angle.  When I got home, I was mostly pleased with the recording EXCEPT for the trumpet.  The trumpet I heard with my ears last night had some raunch to it, even at its most angelic.  What I'm hearing on my speakers, though, sounds - polite.  It's like when I'm at a show and stuff little balls of paper in my lower ear lobes to cut out the "stiletto" frequencies - still very good, but something's lost.  I'm spoiled by the flat response of my AKG C480Bs (thank you Terry!), but in this and many other small clubs stand mounted mikes just won't do.

So... I called Sonic Sense and talked with Parker about my problem.  I said I was interested in the Core Sound High End binaurals, but Parker told me there really wasn't that much of a difference between them and the regulars.  She also said that I probably wouldn't find what I wanted in a miniature mike, not even the DPA 4061 (whose capsules Core-Sound use for their high ends).  Instead she recommended the Rode NT4.  After streaming some samples on archive.org, I have to say I like the sound, but not the lack of stereo separation.

So my question is, does anyone know of a mike setup that can be used in a small club, close to the stage, that will give a similar flat response to the AKGs, be small and unobtrusive and also provide some decent stereo imaging?  Thanks in advance.   

P.S. Fries optional.

[illconditioned]

First of all - a HUGE outpouring of thanks to all of you who've helped me with my questions.  This group has been phenomenal in helping me figure out what mikes to get, setting up, accessories, etc.  You've been an invaluable resource; I just want you all to know that and that I really appreciate it.   

Well, as Twain said, no good deed goes unpunished.  I have yet another quandary.  I took my brand new Core Sound binaurals (the regular, not the high end) out for a spin last night.  I taped a jazz band in a small club, sitting right in front about ten feet from the stage.  The mikes were clipped to the visor of my baseball cap, pointing slightly upwards and at about a 60-70 degree angle.  When I got home, I was mostly pleased with the recording EXCEPT for the trumpet.  The trumpet I heard with my ears last night had some raunch to it, even at its most angelic.  What I'm hearing on my speakers, though, sounds - polite.  It's like when I'm at a show and stuff little balls of paper in my lower ear lobes to cut out the "stiletto" frequencies - still very good, but something's lost.  I'm spoiled by the flat response of my AKG C480Bs (thank you Terry!), but in this and many other small clubs stand mounted mikes just won't do.

So... I called Sonic Sense and talked with Parker about my problem.  I said I was interested in the Core Sound High End binaurals, but Parker told me there really wasn't that much of a difference between them and the regulars.  She also said that I probably wouldn't find what I wanted in a miniature mike, not even the DPA 4061 (whose capsules Core-Sound use for their high ends).  Instead she recommended the Rode NT4.  After streaming some samples on archive.org, I have to say I like the sound, but not the lack of stereo separation.

So my question is, does anyone know of a mike setup that can be used in a small club, close to the stage, that will give a similar flat response to the AKGs, be small and unobtrusive and also provide some decent stereo imaging?  Thanks in advance.   

P.S. Fries optional.

Sonic Sense is wrong!  You can get *great* sound from small mics, typically omni mics.  You get stereo separation by wearing on your hat or glasses (or a Jecklin disk between them).  In fact, I would go so far as to say, they provide the *best* sound.  Best in terms of "most natural" at least.

Those basic Core sound ones (based on Panasonic WM60 or WM61 capsules, typically) sound pretty good, but you're right, the midrange and high end is funny.  Once you hear better, you'll know what I mean.

You want to try either DPA4060/4061, or Sennheiser MKE2 (my favourite).  Note: please make sure to buy new DPAs, not used ones from Ebay, that may be worn out from theatre (ie., body worn) use!

  Richard

[yousef]

So... I called Sonic Sense and talked with Parker about my problem.  I said I was interested in the Core Sound High End binaurals, but Parker told me there really wasn't that much of a difference between them and the regulars.  She also said that I probably wouldn't find what I wanted in a miniature mike, not even the DPA 4061 (whose capsules Core-Sound use for their high ends). 

Speaking as someone who moved from CSBs to DPA 4060s 12 months ago, I'd say this was absolute rubbish: the difference is so marked you'll wish you could go back in time and re-do all your old recordings with them.

And mine are just secondhand ex-theatre Ebay dumpster ones. Lord knows how much better new ones must sound.

[stirinthesauce]

a rode nt4 would be number 299 out of 300 other mics I would choose.  I'm guessing she (parker) made the assumption that a stereo mic would be a lower profile setup than your pair of 480's    If that be the case, I can think of much better offerings.  The suggestions that Richard and yousef made are good ones, especially Richard mentioning the head baffling (hrtf) method.  This will give you your stereo separation.  Omnis will always be the most natural sounding mic, followed by the least directional to most directional at the other end of the spectrum.

[Terps]

Are you sure that you did not misunderstand Parker?
Something doesn't sound 100%...
Did you mention other needs that she may have been trying to address with the R0de?

[Wiggler]

Edited to remove content that may of been offensive to some readers.

[ilduclo]

So... I called Sonic Sense and talked with Parker about my problem.  I said I was interested in the Core Sound High End binaurals, but Parker told me there really wasn't that much of a difference between them and the regulars.  She also said that I probably wouldn't find what I wanted in a miniature mike, not even the DPA 4061 (whose capsules Core-Sound use for their high ends). 

Speaking as someone who moved from CSBs to DPA 4060s 12 months ago, I'd say this was absolute rubbish: the difference is so marked you'll wish you could go back in time and re-do all your old recordings with them.

And mine are just secondhand ex-theatre Ebay dumpster ones. Lord knows how much better new ones must sound.

I got that set, too. Amazing sound and cheap cheap!

[laptaper]

What's the pickup pattern like on the DPA omnis?  Are they truly omni, i.e. will pick up all directions equally?  I ask because Miller's, where I'll likely do a lot of my taping, is really loud; it's a bar, not a "listening" room.  One thing that I do like about the CSBs is that they are very directional, and that's saved the two recordings I've done at Milller's from a lot of loud chatter.  I was sure they would be unlistenable and actually turned out pretty good.

Another option I'm thinking of (and easier on the pocket) is a small mike stand like this one, which I could put on the table and mount my AKGs on.  Might not work for Miller's - it's a student bar and even at the front table near the entrance there's always spill potential - but I know a few places in town with a more mature clientele where that could work.  Any small club jazz tapers here doing anything like that?  Thanks again for all the helpful advice!

-------------------------

Update as of 10/2 -

I got on the phone today with Parker and told her about all the rave reviews the DPAs had gotten, and ordered a pair 4061s complete with power supply and right angle plug.  I forgot that what Parker had actually said was that she couldn't personally recommend them because she'd never heard them, but she was aware of their reputation.  We had a really nice chat - actually a few, because she wanted to make a couple of calls first just to make sure everything was "just exactly perfect". ;-)  Really friendly, quoted me a really low price.  She seems to really like to go out of her way for tapers, making her money from her professional clients.

Anyhow, thanks again to everyone who offered their advice.  If the mikes turn out the way I hope, by Friday there should be a pair of CSBs on their way back to Jersey.