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Author Topic: Greetings... my new mic preamp.  (Read 93972 times)

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #210 on: July 07, 2008, 02:39:48 AM »
and all I need mine to be is able to handle 7.2v NIMH rc car batteries, have reliable On/Off Power Switch that wont easily eb bumped and the preamp turned OFF accidentally :( Altho that would be impossible in my Cairn II 8) And I need a reliable gain switch/control/knob/whatever :) I can handle trim/rest of gain on my 722's Line-In 8) And XLR In/Out :) And transformers, and thsoe LED's look PERFECT for our purposes as long as you configure them like us tapers would want them to, which Im sure you will since you have thus far, which is VERY KIND IMO. Thanks for ALL of your efforts and to listening to teh picky hobby that we do ;D 8)

So are those Cinemag transformers as high quality as the Jensen/Richenbacher ones ???
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #211 on: July 07, 2008, 12:35:15 PM »
> So are those Cinemag transformers as high quality as the Jensen/Richenbacher ones ???

Personally, I like them. A lot of other pro audio companies are using Cinemag trafos too. You'd also find them used in some API clone pres.

I think they're just as good as the Jensens quality wise, at a lower price. Note that Jensen/Cinemag/Richenbach kinda all came from the same "DNA." 

From the Cinemag website....
Quote
CineMag was founded in 1979 in North Hollywood, California. Its mission is to manufacture the very best audio magnetic components in the world. However, its history goes back to 1953 when its founder, Tom Reichenbach, was a youngster and was already making transformers with his father, Ed.

Edward Reichenbach's experience in the audio transformer business goes back to Altec Lansing during World War II. Starting there, he designed many transformers which ended up in their equipment. There are some interesting pictures of Ed at Altec Lansing on the Cork Board. After Ed left Altec Lansing he manufactured audio and power transformers and inductors on his own. Eventually, Ed formed Reichenbach Engineering and developed a line of transformers which became ubiquitous standards in the pro audio industry. Tom worked with Ed until 1979, when he formed CineMag. CineMag was originally located at Reichenbach Engineering, but after a few years outgrew the facility.

and all I need mine to be is able to handle 7.2v NIMH rc car batteries,
The pre will work with voltages even less than 7 Volts.... tested down to 6.5V. And using the Tekkeon battery, it still worked even with the voltage selector set to 4.5Volts. ( I didn't test phantom power at those low voltages though. )

have reliable On/Off Power Switch that wont easily eb bumped and the preamp turned OFF accidentally
I'm using toggle switch, with stainless steel lever. Separate On/off switch for the VU meter functions too.

And I need a reliable gain switch/control/knob/whatever
The 12-step Grayhill selector switch cost $18+ alone. These are the same Grayhill selector switches used in preamps costing $1500 and more!
The pot used is sealed, conductive plastic Bourns potentiometer. NOT carbon film that will fade and get worn out after a few use, or open to the elements.

And XLR In/Out
I'm using Neutrik XLR with locking connectors. NOT plastic.

Thanks for ALL of your efforts and to listening to teh picky hobby that we do
Thanks for your interest and feedback!
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Offline run_run_run

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #212 on: July 07, 2008, 05:59:45 PM »
I love this thread

Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #213 on: July 07, 2008, 09:49:38 PM »
Just a little update: Finished doing the PCB design for half the board...  ;D


 

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Offline rePat

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #214 on: July 07, 2008, 10:30:13 PM »
Totally fascinating to watch this develop on our little board!
DPA 4021 >SD MP-2>Sony PCM M10

Church Audio Cardoids>Edirol R-09

Offline silentmark

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #215 on: July 08, 2008, 07:48:17 AM »
Here, here !  8)
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. - Howard Zinn, not Thomas Jefferson ...

Mics: Neumann AK50/AK40/AK30/AK20(1 for M/S), AKG568eb's (gathering dust)
Decks: R-44 (OCM), Fostex FR2LE (OWM), Microtacker (semi-retired), D8 (retired), D7 (retired)
Pre-amps: Apogee Minime (semi-retired), Sonosax SX-M2 (semi-retired), Oade mod SBM-1 (retired)
Cables: LC3 actives (older lemo style x2), Audio Magic Hyper Conductor interconnects

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3qrWOOposQ

Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #216 on: July 08, 2008, 01:36:49 PM »
It looks easy because it's still all "virtual" :) 

Spent a couple of hours last night finishing the other half of the board. Looks good if I may say so... not a single jumper wire used.



Now, I just need to do a final review.  I may be able to send out both the motherboard and switchboard PCB later next week, and order some prototype PCBs.
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Offline rePat

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #217 on: July 14, 2008, 10:14:31 AM »
Hmm, no updates in almost a week ???  Going through withdrawal ;D
DPA 4021 >SD MP-2>Sony PCM M10

Church Audio Cardoids>Edirol R-09

Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #218 on: July 14, 2008, 11:03:45 AM »
sorry about that. :)

Update:

The files were sent to the factory on the 11th, been in email communication with PCB fabrication house to answer a few questions. I should  have on my hands the real, actual PCBs for the motherboard and switchboard on the 23rd.... woohoo!

Gimme a few days to build one prototype... and we'll see how it goes.

Assuming I didn't make any mistake in the PCB design layout, it should work on the 1st try. Otherwise, there goes $350+ on bad prototype PCBs.

Continuing to do do listening tests on a product I've yet to release, has a nice big fat bottom end, silky smooth highs... also been testing the DC-DC PSU for several days now. Both technologies incorporated in the TS-2 design... so I'm confident the TS-2 preamp will work and sound good.   

However, the TS-2 has one design change not in my original SC-1 preamp. Theoretically, it should not change the sound, should even make it more quiet and improve noise performance further. But since the mod is on the signal path, it will be interesting to hear the change (or not hear it.)


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Offline Chuck

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #219 on: July 14, 2008, 05:29:20 PM »
sorry about that. :)

Update:

The files were sent to the factory on the 11th, been in email communication with PCB fabrication house to answer a few questions. I should  have on my hands the real, actual PCBs for the motherboard and switchboard on the 23rd.... woohoo!

Gimme a few days to build one prototype... and we'll see how it goes.

Assuming I didn't make any mistake in the PCB design layout, it should work on the 1st try. Otherwise, there goes $350+ on bad prototype PCBs.

Continuing to do do listening tests on a product I've yet to release, has a nice big fat bottom end, silky smooth highs... also been testing the DC-DC PSU for several days now. Both technologies incorporated in the TS-2 design... so I'm confident the TS-2 preamp will work and sound good.   

However, the TS-2 has one design change not in my original SC-1 preamp. Theoretically, it should not change the sound, should even make it more quiet and improve noise performance further. But since the mod is on the signal path, it will be interesting to hear the change (or not hear it.)




fivefishdiy how do you do comparisons to listen for any change in sound when you make changes?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #220 on: July 14, 2008, 06:52:39 PM »
Easy.. It's very unscientific :)   

The preamp out is connected directly to an 8" active monitor (bi-amp). I have to be careful that my distance to the monitor is the same for both tests.  I'm usually sitting down, and I always look at the same reference point (say, a picture frame, or spot on the wall, or the tweeter cone). That way, my head position is always the same, and therefore my ears are at the same spot too (or roughly the same spot).

I have the stock pre, and the modified pre (or prototype) on my desk. First, use the 1st pre. I'll loop the same music material continuously, until I'm used to the sound. Then I'll switch jacks and run the 2nd pre... same material, same distance, same head position. I'll take note of specific musical passages, and keep looping it. Then I switch again and see if what I think I heard is really there, or just my imagination.  I use orchestral music, with very fine piano passages, and loud percussive sound in other parts, mixed with some strings, french horns, etc in other passages. I'll take note of the crash cymbals or the taiko drum, or the violin strings. How do they sound.

I remember on an early preamp prototype last year, my pre would "trip up" when one specific section came up (very loud, very transient percussive sound) on one specific music (It was a Yanni CD  ;D )  It didn't happen on any other loud music material or CD... just this one particular song. So hook up the oscilloscope, run the audio generator and sweep up and down the frequency until I replicated the problem. So that got fixed.

In another case, I noticed the output of the 2nd pre was lower in volume than the 1st pre. It seems just a tad bit lower, but hardly noticeable listening to it. So I hooked up an oscilloscope and measured it, and found the output of the other pre was 0.4V less. Reviewing the board, I noticed a 2K67 resistor instead of a 3K32 in it's place.  Replaced it, hooked up the oscilloscope and now they're on the same volume, and listening tests confirm it too.

And I'll do the same listening tests several times, a few days apart also. 

I also have a software spectrum analyzer just to see if anything changed... But it's really hard to tell because the graph doesn't tell the whole story. (Not unless the change is really obvious.)

Swapping chips with another model/brand can also reveal the weakness of the older chip models. The high frequencies just get smeared and harsh to the ear (sounds like a fissssssh instead of a pissssss) , and the music just sound lifeless and dead. It's like the difference between listening to a speaker covered with a blanket, and listening to one without. That's best how I can describe it, like a veil being lifted.

I also try different mics, dynamics, condenser and ribbons.

Sometimes, I'll record the same performance on 2 different signal paths, and then chop the resulting audio and butt them together alternately, and listen to it to see if there are differences. Here's an example:
http://www.fivefishstudios.com/audio/SC-1ActiveDI-vs-RadialActiveDI.mp3

Everytime you hear a click or tick, that's audio being swapped between the 2 sources. This is a comparison between my Active DI and a commercial $200 Active DI unit. The $200 DI has a tiny bit more low end than mine, but nobody would even notice it if not pointed out.

Anyways, I don't know if that answered your question but that's how I do things. Whether it's right or wrong, who knows? Each person will have their own ears, their own personal biases, etc... See the June 2008 issue of AES Journal about how personal bias affects listening tests. (factors like price, look,  brand, equipment model#, and also mood, music preference, nationality, etc.)


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Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #221 on: July 14, 2008, 11:16:18 PM »
No, you're right. PCB cad has Design Rule Check and Error Check tools.  But I still make mistakes :) Human mistakes no software will catch.

Like in one job I did, I drew the schematic wrong. I connected one of the trace to the wrong junction. So the PCB design tool didn't catch it, because it was "correctly laid out".  But electrically, it was wrong.

Another old mistake was putting the component backwards (i.e. a selector switch). The PCB design/layout was correct, but the component was backwards.

And another one was pulling up an LM317 regulator part instead of a 337 regulator part. The part looks the same, but the pin-outs were different.  The PSU didn't work, and everything got hot  :-[

Just dumb mistakes. It's the little ones that get you.

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Offline GDfan

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #222 on: July 18, 2008, 02:18:33 PM »
this thread rocks!
I look forward to this product.
Neumann SKM184 / AKG 568EB > Sound Devices MixPre3
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/CLaPorte

Offline fivefishdiy

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #223 on: July 23, 2008, 06:10:57 PM »
UPDATED:

New prototype boards came in today... wohoo!


Let's do some test fittings...

The (2) VU Meters


and oh yeah.... 2 input transformers.


This is the switchboard...


A preview of things to come...


Next step: Build a prototype using these new boards and see if it works.
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Greetings... my new mic preamp.
« Reply #224 on: July 23, 2008, 06:24:16 PM »
^^^

Nice.  I love the way you integrated those VU meter boards into your mainboard.  Very clean!

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

 

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