Topic: Edirol R-09HR - Part TWO

[dave570]

Lack of a line out on this Edirol R-09HR is making me re-consider my recent purchase.   I do not understand how that feature could be left off. I know its a great deck/recorder, but this prevents patches into me. Even from another Edirol.  I am expecting a new one in a few days and can't return it.  Expect me to sell it here by Thursday for much less than I paid.

[guysonic]

ONLY difference between phones/line outputs with newer compact model portable decks is having a level control for turning down volume when phones are attached.

For LINE output purposes, simply turn colume level control to full up setting.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Lack of a line out on this Edirol R-09HR is making me re-consider my recent purchase.   I do not understand how that feature could be left off. I know its a great deck/recorder, but this prevents patches into me. Even from another Edirol.  I am expecting a new one in a few days and can't return it.  Expect me to sell it here by Thursday for much less than I paid.

Perhaps you might be doing a great fuss over nothing, or nothing that is so important.

Most portable units have just one output, which is usually designed for headphones. It's a low impedance/high level type, which is also the way a good line-out should be. Home CD/DVD players, for instance, have low impedance outputs, even if usually not high level. But you could plug a headphone on them and it should work.

Modern chips allow to do that, and I'm pretty sure the 09HR output, even if labeled headphone, is quite good.

[dave570]

Marantz and Sony have line outputs and headphone jacks. Yes, I realize that I can turn the volume all the way up.  But would anyone (ex: a D8) really want to get a patch from that?  Has anyone ever patched any deck into Edirol R-09HR via the headphones out? If so, how did it work out?

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Marantz and Sony have line outputs and headphone jacks.

Tradition, maybe? 

Yes, I realize that I can turn the volume all the way up.  But would anyone (ex: a D8) really want to get a patch from that?

You just mentioned one of the first high quality units that did fashion such "joint" output: Sony D7 and D8. But with the idea in mind (I think) that everyone would be using another machine to play the DAT tapes. That principle could also be applied to the R-09HR: you are not expected to play your recordings through the unit's output, but process it on your computer.

Has anyone ever patched any deck into Edirol R-09HR via the headphones out? If so, how did it work out?

I'm sure it would play just great. Just beware of something, and that should be a matter of concern: provide an adaptor that you plug into the Edirol and never plug out, and at the other end put a socket (e.g.: 1/8" or 1/4" stereo jack) where you would actually connect your headphones or line out cable.

[Gutbucket]

Has anyone ever patched any deck into Edirol R-09HR via the headphones out? If so, how did it work out?

I've patched out to others with my R-09s and it's worked fine.  I also playback into my stereo system, into portable speakers, into car stereos and into headphones (direct and also through a headphone amp) and it sounds great.  I think the only thing different about the R-09HR output [edit- that I know of, I don't have an HR]  is the elimination of the optical SPDIF.  That's too bad since I do use that into my home receiver and would conceivably make for a better patch to someone that could take an optical patch by eliminating a second D>A>D conversion.  I've never patched out that way though, only analog.

[Dede2002]

Well, I'm here to learn, basically. But I'm not that sure about the sound quality of the R-09HR headphone output. I own both the R-0HR and the old R-09. The R-09's headphone out sounds way better. I use to plug a headphone into my R-09 to check my recordings right after a show and had a good idea of how it sounds. I just can't do it anymore. I only know how a given recording really sounds after saving it on my computer.
Just my 0,000000000000002 cents.

[Gutbucket]

Interesting. That's a bummer. I don't have an HR so I can't comment.

[pgadams]

Well, I'm here to learn, basically. But I'm not that sure about the sound quality of the R-09HR headphone output. I own both the R-0HR and the old R-09. The R-09's headphone out sounds way better. I use to plug a headphone into my R-09 to check my recordings right after a show and had a good idea of how it sounds. I just can't do it anymore. I only know how a given recording really sounds after saving it on my computer.
Just my 0,000000000000002 cents.

Here's another 2 cents. After recording a live concert Tuesday, I plugged the Edirol R-09 into my car stereo using the headphone jack and listened to the concert on the way home. It sounded very good in the car.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Headphones, except rare exceptions, shouldn't be used to judge audio quality. What should be looked in a headphone are accuracy and how natural they can sound, that is as close as possible to the original sound.

This, which sounds rather obvious, can't be achieved by the majority of headphones around and even those that do restricted to specific frequencies, usually human voice or certain instruments.

To say that a headphone output sounded "better" than another one can be misleading, because it would depend on the headphone used, the sound recorded, the mic used, etc.

A proper test should involve using similar mics on a similar concert, then played and normalized using the same headphone (a good one). But to really judge the audio quality, both recordings should played through a good audio amplifier & speakers.

[Dede2002]

Headphones, except rare exceptions, shouldn't be used to judge audio quality. What should be looked in a headphone are accuracy and how natural they can sound, that is as close as possible to the original sound.

This, which sounds rather obvious, can't be achieved by the majority of headphones around and even those that do restricted to specific frequencies, usually human voice or certain instruments.

To say that a headphone output sounded "better" than another one can be misleading, because it would depend on the headphone used, the sound recorded, the mic used, etc.

A proper test should involve using similar mics on a similar concert, then played and normalized using the same headphone (a good one). But to really judge the audio quality, both recordings should played through a good audio amplifier & speakers.

Hi,

It's not that complicated. I've recorded a ziliion concerts with both recorders and the results were always the same: the R-09 headphone out sound quality was always better. Same headphone (obviously), same mics, similar type of music. It's not something than happens here and there. It happens all the time.
But this is nothing that really bothers me. Overall, the new R-09HR final sound quality is way better than the old R-09 
Just my 0,000000000000000000000000000000000002 cents

[dave570]

That's what other folks have been telling me.  The R-09 headphones output is better than the 09HR.  I think when they removed the optical output Edirol should have at least provided a menu setting for a real line out.  Feeding headphones and feeding another deck are two different things, IMO.  When I give someone a patch out of my D8,  I make damn sure its set to line out.  Not headphones. Turning the volume up all the way colors the sound versus passing the source signal "as is" onto the next deck.  I tape alone with my mics maybe 25% of the time. The other 75% are line-in patches from better mics where I pass a pure line out to someone else.  Unless I am sure to be the last deck in the chain, I can't see how the 09HR will fit into that chain.  It appears right now that I will be putting this beast up for quick sale so as to get a deck that has both line out and headphones.  Thanks for the feedback guys.

[pgadams]

"When my r09hr´s batteries died, the recorded file was NOT saved"

"My r09hr's batteries died on Saturday night...I ran that fixwav utility, and the wav file headers were cleaned up and everything looked good..."

I'd like to hear from other R09HR owners about what happens when the power runs out.  It will be useful to know if the R09HR routinely loses the file or corrupts the file a the point when the battery quits.  Or maybe the R-09HR can't tell the power left in a rechargeable AA as well as it can an alkaline AA?

Flintstone

I recorded Southside Johnny two nights in a row Monday night and tonight using CSB mics, CSBB, mic in, and my R09HR at 24/96. Limiter off, plug in power off, mic gain low, low cut off, max file size 2 GB. I was using Duracell Ultra Digital AA and after the first night (approximately 2 hrs 45 min) the batteries still indicated full charge on the Edirol. Tonight I used the same batteries and they went dead after another 2 hrs and 12 minutes. I copied the files to my laptop and even the 12 minute cut-off file played fine without needing repairs. I have new PowerEdge rechargeables that I will be using in the future and of course will not try to record almost 6 hours on the same batteries again. BTW, the recordings sound much better than my previous PDAudio setup.

Here's a link to the recording
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=212495

[Dede2002]

That's what other folks have been telling me.  The R-09 headphones output is better than the 09HR.  I think when they removed the optical output Edirol should have at least provided a menu setting for a real line out.  Feeding headphones and feeding another deck are two different things, IMO.  When I give someone a patch out of my D8,  I make damn sure its set to line out.  Not headphones. Turning the volume up all the way colors the sound versus passing the source signal "as is" onto the next deck.  I tape alone with my mics maybe 25% of the time. The other 75% are line-in patches from better mics where I pass a pure line out to someone else.  Unless I am sure to be the last deck in the chain, I can't see how the 09HR will fit into that chain.  It appears right now that I will be putting this beast up for quick sale so as to get a deck that has both line out and headphones.  Thanks for the feedback guys.

Well, this is not of my business, but I think you should think twice, friend.I understand you're not planning to use your recorder with external mics and I really respect your point. I'm not lecturing you. I hate when people try to do that to me. 
If you sell your R-09HR, you're going to sell a fine, great recorder. Moving, for instance, from the R-09HR to the Marantz 620, you'll have Line Out all right, but not as near the same sound quality .

[Gutbucket]

A headphone out can be a great line-out if designed properly.  Many people use HQ headphone amps as preamps to drive stereo power amps  for that very reason.

I don't get it, why cripple the output and eliminate the optical option, does it really cut costs significantly?
Wassup Roland? How about optical out AND in on the next version < that would be a valuable upgrade that many here would really appreciate.